NLRB: College football players can unionize

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G

Gblock

Mar 28, 2014 9:22 AM
WebFire;1597340 wrote:You can't do this. There is a reason these rules are in place. Too many cheaters.

Mr. Booster comes to the athlete and agrees to buy his shirt for $100k if he goes to school there.
so what? free market. its not cheating if you let everyone have the same opportunity. U think the big boy schools already dont have a huge advantage and arent paying money to the top players?
Mar 28, 2014 9:22am
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 28, 2014 9:40 AM
Gblock;1597351 wrote:so what? free market. its not cheating if you let everyone have the same opportunity. U think the big boy schools already dont have a huge advantage and arent paying money to the top players?
That's not what everyone wants college football to be. It disappoints me that college athletics has gotten so out of hand and money hungry, that we are just willing to let it be that way.
Mar 28, 2014 9:40am
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

Dirty White Boy

3,394 posts
Mar 28, 2014 9:52 AM
WebFire;1597358 wrote:That's not what everyone wants college football to be. It disappoints me that college athletics has gotten so out of hand and money hungry, that we are just willing to let it be that way.
What? So it's ok to deny personal liberties for the sake of college football?

I love cfb, but to say that an individual cannot sell something that has a demand to maintain the sanctity of amateur athletics is ludicrous. You cannot deny that to anyone
Mar 28, 2014 9:52am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 28, 2014 9:56 AM
I Wear Pants;1597245 wrote: If you're generating revenue from the work of someone in your organization you must compensate them.
And they are getting compensated. Tuition, books, student assistance funds, travel expenses, gear, etc. are all forms of compensation. You might say it's not enough, which is fine, but it is compensation.
Mar 28, 2014 9:56am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 28, 2014 10:01 AM
OSH;1597276 wrote:They do get a return on investment. It's called "future benefactors." Just because the sports are "non-revenue" doesn't mean the sport doesn't benefit the institution in the long run (heck, or short run). Frick, for most of NCAA DI, football and basketball are non-revenue too since they cost the school money -- they are a huge burden to many athletic budgets.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, I was moreso speaking to how it would end up if athletic departments had to start paying student athletes. They wouldn't have good enough economic reasons to pay athletes in non-revenue sports.

For the bolded part, you already addressed the problem later in your post by talking about the spending and "arms race" that is the real reason athletic departments don't make money. Those two sports make a profit for sure, athletic departments just turn around and waste it.
Mar 28, 2014 10:01am
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 28, 2014 10:23 AM
Mohican00;1597366 wrote:What? So it's ok to deny personal liberties for the sake of college football?

I love cfb, but to say that an individual cannot sell something that has a demand to maintain the sanctity of amateur athletics is ludicrous. You cannot deny that to anyone
Yes you can. It happens in the business world all the time.
Mar 28, 2014 10:23am
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

Dirty White Boy

3,394 posts
Mar 28, 2014 10:30 AM
WebFire;1597386 wrote:Yes you can. It happens in the business world all the time.
When is this done without the consent (usually through written agreement) of the employee?
Mar 28, 2014 10:30am
W

WebFire

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14,779 posts
Mar 28, 2014 10:54 AM
Mohican00;1597389 wrote:When is this done without the consent (usually through written agreement) of the employee?
It's always done with written consent. Just like it is with scholarships.
Mar 28, 2014 10:54am
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

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Mar 28, 2014 11:05 AM
WebFire;1597404 wrote:It's always done with written consent. Just like it is with scholarships.
Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?

Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
Mar 28, 2014 11:05am
M

MontyBrunswick

Mar 28, 2014 11:06 AM
ccrunner609;1597206 wrote:tough shit. Life isnt fair.
That's not the point I was trying to make. Public schools would be at a complete disadvantage since they're giving athletes substantially "less" money.
Mar 28, 2014 11:06am
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 28, 2014 11:14 AM
Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?

Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
Why do you keep adding stuff to your argument?

You stated they can't deny the student from selling something. But they can. It happens in the real business world all the time. And a scholarship is a contract. The student offers their service for something in return. Just like business.

The rest of your statements are not relevant.
Mar 28, 2014 11:14am
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 28, 2014 11:14 AM
Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?

Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
So it should be a free-for-all? Then just have a real minor league and scrap college athletic scholarships altogether.
Mar 28, 2014 11:14am
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

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Mar 28, 2014 11:19 AM
WebFire;1597420 wrote:So it should be a free-for-all? Then just have a real minor league and scrap college athletic scholarships altogether.
Never said that. I actually agreed with your earlier post about it being controlled. Possibly through the school and capped at a certain amount.
Mar 28, 2014 11:19am
G

Gblock

Mar 28, 2014 11:23 AM
the players said this is more about having a seat at the table for the future. there number one concern is getting medical coverage for sports injuries, which currently is optional for the school to take care of.
Mar 28, 2014 11:23am
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Mar 28, 2014 11:36 AM
the players said this is more about having a seat at the table for the future. there number one concern is getting medical coverage for sports injuries, which currently is optional for the school to take care of.
It would still have to be really limited, and controlled by some organization, if not the NCAA.
Of course it would be limited, and reportable. 90% of the 'violations' are over small amounts of money. Devier Posey lost his entire senior season for $1000...It cost Ohio State $millions in fines and sanctions for less than $ 10,000 worth of 'violations' committed by 8 players!
Mar 28, 2014 11:36am
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:10 PM
HitsRus;1597435 wrote:Of course it would be limited, and reportable. 90% of the 'violations' are over small amounts of money. Devier Posey lost his entire senior season for $1000...It cost Ohio State $millions in fines and sanctions for less than $ 10,000 worth of 'violations' committed by 8 players!
If someone is willing to cheat the system over a small amount, what makes you think that he wouldn't cheat it over a larger amount of money? It comes down to character. Unfortunately, OSU had several players that had horrible character issues and hurt the program.
Mar 28, 2014 12:10pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:12 PM
Mohican00;1597411 wrote:Scholarships that can be pulled by a school on yearly basis? And voids personal liberties?

Pretty shitty deal for the student athlete. Someone should change that
And your job can be terminated at day 1 if they want. I also can't do whatever I want at my current job; for example I'm restricted from using my company name in marketing any side business that I start or utilizing any tools learned on my current job for that side business. It's part of my employment contract and I follow it, despite giving up personal liberties, because they pay me for it. College athletes get paid and the deal they get is VERY GOOD.

Football players at Ohio State get a $1,200 a month stipend if they live off campus which is enough to lease a super nice car and live in a swanky apartment; and that's only the stuff on the books.
Mar 28, 2014 12:12pm
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

Dirty White Boy

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Mar 28, 2014 12:13 PM
sleeper;1597456 wrote:And your job can be terminated at day 1 if they want.
....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
Mar 28, 2014 12:13pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:24 PM
Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
That's not how the rest of the world gets paid.
Mar 28, 2014 12:24pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:26 PM
Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
Most of the money is being pulled in from the name that college provides, not from the players. If a minor league football system were started that had no relationship to the colleges were started, what do you think the attendance would be when Columbus played Ann Arbor? They would be lucky to outdraw many high school games. If someone could make money on a minor league system, don't you think that there would be one in place?
Mar 28, 2014 12:26pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

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Mar 28, 2014 12:35 PM
Mohican00;1597457 wrote:....but these aren't jobs. But if you seem to think they are, let's pay them proportional to them money that their program pulls in from their work
They aren't jobs yet they are allowed to unionize. Do you always talk in circles?
Mar 28, 2014 12:35pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:43 PM
Al Bundy;1597462 wrote:Most of the money is being pulled in from the name that college provides, not from the players. If a minor league football system were started that had no relationship to the colleges were started, what do you think the attendance would be when Columbus played Ann Arbor? They would be lucky to outdraw many high school games. If someone could make money on a minor league system, don't you think that there would be one in place?
There's the UFL. When's the last time anyone gave a flying F about the UFL?

The reality is these college athletes, especially football and basketball players, are absolutely spoiled and they want more for their greed. I do agree some of the rules need to be relaxed but paying them anymore than what they get is a joke.
Mar 28, 2014 12:43pm
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

Dirty White Boy

3,394 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:44 PM
sleeper;1597466 wrote:They aren't jobs yet they are allowed to unionize
That's the point, that's the impetus of this ya dingus. They were being treated as employees while being called "student athletes"
But the board's decision indicates that there was enough evidence presented that the athletes are employees of the university -- getting paid in the form of scholarships, working between 20 and 50 hours per week and generating millions of dollars for their institutions.
and the NLRB in Chicago said, as such, they are allowed to unionize.

What's hard to grasp about players being treated as employees by a university, and they call them out on it seeking better medical coverage, concussion testing, four-year scholarships and the possibility of being paid?
Mar 28, 2014 12:44pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:52 PM
Gblock;1597321 wrote:at minimum if they arent going to pay them should remove the restrictions on them being able to earn money on their own. i.e. starting a t-shirt company or signing autographs
This is the easiest answer in my opinion. Keep the current student aid packages but just allow them to profit off of the licensing of their image, autographs, sales of their personal property like trophies, etc. This will make it so that the amount of money athletes earn is in proportion to their "talent" or fame or what have you....i.e. Aaron Craft will command more profit potential than Trey McDonald.
Mar 28, 2014 12:52pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 28, 2014 12:53 PM
That's the point, that's the impetus of this ya dingus. They were being treated as employees while being called "student athletes"
You can call them whatever you want. They are still being compensated for their efforts; I'm not sure what you are arguing but you sound like a moron either way.
Mar 28, 2014 12:53pm