Indians at Royals 4/13 - 4/15

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Gardens35

Senior Member

4,929 posts
Apr 15, 2012 8:21 PM
Worst Ever...

1. Colavito for Kuenn

2. Nettles for (whoever it was)........help here?

:)
Apr 15, 2012 8:21pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 15, 2012 8:23 PM
hoops23;1144764 wrote:That was clearly my point.
I know, I was adding on top of it
Apr 15, 2012 8:23pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 15, 2012 8:28 PM
Footwedge;1144756 wrote:that YOU don't understand...and never will understand....it was a bad percentage play trade.
This is the ultimate hypocritical statement, because you don't even understand that you're completely wrong. It was the RIGHT percentage play trade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_indians_rockies_jimenez_prospects_073111
Of the remaining 198, just 67 made the Good list. Which means 131 times – almost exactly two-thirds – the pitcher ended up at best middling starter or a reliever with a worthwhile career and at worst on the Bad list.
I'm sorry you can't comprehend that (someone who has proven they can play at a high level) > (2 people who have not proven they can play at a high level). But the worst part of it is that you continue to parade around your statistically incorrect statement and berate people who think otherwise. You're quite the moronic douche footwedge, a true *sshole.
Apr 15, 2012 8:28pm
DeadliestWarrior34's avatar

DeadliestWarrior34

gooby pls

3,101 posts
Apr 15, 2012 8:36 PM
Footwedge;1144777 wrote:I thought he made a ton of great pitches in the fifth inning too....and I posted as much. I hope the fucker wins the Cy Young...I'll give everyone here an ipod as i eat some sweettribe humble pie.
/sleeper'd
Apr 15, 2012 8:36pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:22 PM
lhslep134;1144802 wrote: I'm sorry you can't comprehend that (someone who has proven they can play at a high level) > (2 people who have not proven they can play at a high level). But the worst part of it is that you continue to parade around your statistically incorrect statement and berate people who think otherwise. You're quite the moronic douche footwedge, a true *sshole.
Terrible comparison. The paths of their careers isnt a way to look at it. We had White and Pomeranz for like 7 more years. Ubaldo will probably be traded this year, if hes any good lol.

So is a proven pitcher for 1 year >>>>>> 2 prospects locked up through arbitration years?

I'm not sure. I think Id take a solid #3 for 6 years than an Ace (Ubaldo isnt even an Ace) for 1 year. But thats me.
Apr 15, 2012 9:22pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:30 PM
lhslep134;1144802 wrote:This is the ultimate hypocritical statement, because you don't even understand that you're completely wrong. It was the RIGHT percentage play trade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_indians_rockies_jimenez_prospects_073111

“Here’s the thing,” the scout said Friday. “If you have a chance to get a known quantity, someone who has been there and done that, you do it. Do you understand?”
I'm sorry you can't comprehend that (someone who has proven they can play at a high level) > (2 people who have not proven they can play at a high level). But the worst part of it is that you continue to parade around your statistically incorrect statement and berate people who think otherwise. You're quite the moronic douche footwedge, a true *sshole.
From your blog that you apparently are so proud of

“Here’s the thing,” the scout said Friday. “If you have a chance to get a known quantity, someone who has been there and done that, you do it. Do you understand?”

So Ubaldo is a proven commodity. Really? A number 4 starter is a proven commodity? How many counter blogs do you want that say the opposite? Do you want me to show you what Gammons said? How about Kirkshian?

How is that unproven commidity and "prospect" Masterson been doing? How did Baerga turn out? Sandy A?

Again....how many links do you want...stating the tribe got fleeced? 10? 20?
Apr 15, 2012 9:30pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:32 PM
Laley23;1144827 wrote:Terrible comparison. The paths of their careers isnt a way to look at it. We had White and Pomeranz for like 7 more years. Ubaldo will probably be traded this year, if hes any good lol.

So is a proven pitcher for 1 year >>>>>> 2 prospects locked up through arbitration years?

I'm not sure. I think Id take a solid #3 for 6 years than an Ace (Ubaldo isnt even an Ace) for 1 year. But thats me.

My whole issue wasn't trading the prospects....it is what we got. Hunter pence was out there.....a position of need. We had pitching, yet we went after a guy that hasn't pitched well in a long time. We only went after him because his contract was friendly. Fuck Dolan
Apr 15, 2012 9:32pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

Senior Member

9,002 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:35 PM
Laley23;1144827 wrote:Terrible comparison. The paths of their careers isnt a way to look at it. We had White and Pomeranz for like 7 more years. Ubaldo will probably be traded this year, if hes any good lol.

So is a proven pitcher for 1 year >>>>>> 2 prospects locked up through arbitration years?

I'm not sure. I think Id take a solid #3 for 6 years than an Ace (Ubaldo isnt even an Ace) for 1 year. But thats me.

I had no problem giving away white because of his injury. I think someone posted an article a year ago that players with the same injury have never came back and been successful in the majors. Pomeranz sucks giving him away but he's also not a sure thing so I'm technically not mad at the trade at all
Apr 15, 2012 9:35pm
ohiobucks1's avatar

ohiobucks1

USA American

4,915 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:35 PM
Don't we have Ubaldo for like 3-4 more seasons guaranteed?
Apr 15, 2012 9:35pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:38 PM
ohiobucks1;1144841 wrote:Don't we have Ubaldo for like 3-4 more seasons guaranteed?

I thought it was 2014
Apr 15, 2012 9:38pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

Senior Member

9,002 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:39 PM
wes_mantooth;1144838 wrote:My whole issue wasn't trading the prospects....it is what we got. Hunter pence was out there.....a position of need. We had pitching, yet we went after a guy that hasn't pitched well in a long time. We only went after him because his contract was friendly. **** Dolan

Exactly. And I thought we were actually going to get a solid bat this offseason but dolans a fucking cheap ass Jew.
Apr 15, 2012 9:39pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Apr 15, 2012 9:54 PM
ohiobucks1;1144841 wrote:Don't we have Ubaldo for like 3-4 more seasons guaranteed?
This season and a club option for next. The 2014 option was voided when he was traded I think.
Apr 15, 2012 9:54pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:58 PM
Laley23;1144854 wrote:This season and a club option for next. The 2014 option was voided when he was traded I think.
This is correct. And you were right up above. Ubaldo will be traded this season.
Apr 15, 2012 9:58pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 9:59 PM
Crimson streak;1144844 wrote:Exactly. And I thought we were actually going to get a solid bat this offseason but dolans a fucking cheap ass Jew.
Was that necessary?
Apr 15, 2012 9:59pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:00 PM
wes_mantooth;1144838 wrote:My whole issue wasn't trading the prospects....it is what we got. Hunter pence was out there.....a position of need. We had pitching, yet we went after a guy that hasn't pitched well in a long time. We only went after him because his contract was friendly. Fuck Dolan
Agreed. Wanted Pence, and we gave up more for a position not of need than Phils did for a position of our need. Same(ish) contract length as well.
Crimson streak;1144840 wrote:I had no problem giving away white because of his injury. I think someone posted an article a year ago that players with the same injury have never came back and been successful in the majors. Pomeranz sucks giving him away but he's also not a sure thing so I'm technically not mad at the trade at all
haha, that was me. And I agree completely. I dont think the trade was all that bad based on what it signified. But not upgrading at all in offseason pretty much ruined it for me. I was happy they went for the "window". But then they failed. Then on top of it, we shut the future windows because Pomeranze was under contract for much longer, and possibly able to be extended after a year or two.

Ill say again, even if Pom doesnt turn into an Ace, is a #2 for 2 years (ok, we pick up Ubaldos option) better than giving up White and Pomeranz. Even if White is bullpen and Pom is a #4 for their entire contracts??? I saw YESSSS, if we went out and got some bats and better depth at pitching. I say absolutely NOT, based on what we did in the offseason.
Apr 15, 2012 10:00pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:00 PM
lhslep134;1144799 wrote:I know, I was adding on top of it
My fault. I misinterpreted your post.
Apr 15, 2012 10:00pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:01 PM
wes_mantooth;1144838 wrote:My whole issue wasn't trading the prospects....it is what we got. Hunter pence was out there.....a position of need. We had pitching, yet we went after a guy that hasn't pitched well in a long time. We only went after him because his contract was friendly. Fuck Dolan
Tribe could have grabbed Fister before Detroit did.....for a lot less.
Apr 15, 2012 10:01pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:02 PM
Laley23;1144827 wrote:
I'm not sure. I think Id take a solid #3 for 6 years than an Ace (Ubaldo isnt even an Ace) for 1 year. But thats me.
1 year? We traded for him when we were in contention, had him for the stretch run, this year, and for sure next year. That's 2.5 of a proven commodity vs 6 years of unproven commodities.

In the article I posted, that stats are in favor of the pitchers listed in Baseball America's Top 50 (like White and Pomeranz) being less than "Good", which is what Ubaldo is at the worst (by definition in the article).
Apr 15, 2012 10:02pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:09 PM
Ubaldo's fastball was topping out at 96 today. He was hitting 95 past 100 pitches.

He had a great start against Toronto that we should have won and he battled today to get the win.

He's not the reason we're only 4-4 when we could be 2 games better.

I think Masterson and Ubaldo are going to be a very good 1-2 punch, and I like what Lowe and Gomez have shown. Can Tomlin provide us what we need out of him though?
Apr 15, 2012 10:09pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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29,506 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:11 PM
lhslep134;1144869 wrote:1 year? We traded for him when we were in contention, had him for the stretch run, this year, and for sure next year. That's 2.5 of a proven commodity vs 6 years of unproven commodities.

In the article I posted, that stats are in favor of the pitchers listed in Baseball America's Top 50 (like White and Pomeranz) being less than "Good", which is what Ubaldo is at the worst (by definition in the article).
I liked the trade, but we needed more to couple it, and they didnt do it.

And, I am going off of us traded him this year lol. But I also wouldnt say its a sure thing Dolan picks up his option. It jumps up to SIX MILLION!!! :D
Apr 15, 2012 10:11pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:14 PM
Lol, very true Laley. If we're out of contention I wouldn't be shocked to see Dolan trade Ubaldo and get fleeced just as he did with the Lee and Sabathia trades.
Apr 15, 2012 10:14pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:14 PM
lhslep134;1144869 wrote:1 year? We traded for him when we were in contention, had him for the stretch run, this year, and for sure next year. That's 2.5 of a proven commodity vs 6 years of unproven commodities.

In the article I posted, that stats are in favor of the pitchers listed in Baseball America's Top 50 (like White and Pomeranz) being less than "Good", which is what Ubaldo is at the worst (by definition in the article).
Fuck your article. What sample size did they use? And you're a law student? No team in their right mind would trade their top 2 pitching prospects for someone with a record like Jiminez.

Not to mention that Jiminez is a cancer in a locker room.

If you look at the history of that trade, you will see that the Yankees and Boston wanted Ubaldo. But they sure as hell weren't going to piss away their top 2 pitching prospects....especially after dominating in the minors the way they did.
Apr 15, 2012 10:14pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:16 PM
Ubaldo is a cancer now?
Apr 15, 2012 10:16pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:17 PM
hoops23;1144875 wrote:Ubaldo's fastball was topping out at 96 today. He was hitting 95 past 100 pitches.

He had a great start against Toronto that we should have won and he battled today to get the win.

He's not the reason we're only 4-4 when we could be 2 games better.

I think Masterson and Ubaldo are going to be a very good 1-2 punch, and I like what Lowe and Gomez have shown. Can Tomlin provide us what we need out of him though?
There's something wrong with Tomlin. Would like to see him demoted. It's been going on all spring.
Apr 15, 2012 10:17pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 15, 2012 10:18 PM
hoops23;1144885 wrote:Ubaldo is a cancer now?
You might want to google what the manager said about him. He bitched and moaned because they didn't extend his cobtract last year. Hey Ubaldo....numbers get you new deals.
Apr 15, 2012 10:18pm