vball10set;961891 wrote:tick, tick, tick..how long before JoePa announces his retirement/resignation?

As I posted on earlier, if I were a current Penn State player, I don't know if I could play for this staff anymore after hearing about this. Penn State has no alternative but to get rid of Paterno, Big Red and anyone else that was associated in all of this immediately.


P.S. I would also recommend an immediate remodel of the showers that Sandusky liked to use.

Paterno is a liar now, to go along with covering up the fact that a pedophile was actively molesting kids, sometimes in PSU facilities because he was given "emeritus" status and keys to the facilities; all of which had to have been approved by Paterno.

The man needs to be gone immediately, and there should be a way to take away any wins he got from the time this incident was reported to him by McQueary until now. It's probably the only thing that would hurt Paterno in a way he deserves for his negligence in this matter. There can be no doubt he's hung on all these years because of his ego and wanting to get those win records.

I know none of that is possible, however, and will have to settle for hoping the Board fires him by the end of this week, along with McQueary, and lets an interim coach finish the season. At that point, they can clean house of any staff people who were around during those years and likely knew about the cover up.

Mulva wrote:1. Prosecutors have stated he isn't suspected of anything, and have actually lauded his assistance/cooperation
2. Criminally, according to a yahoo article, failure to report has a maximum sentence of 3 months, but that's irrelevant anyway because he immediately reported what he was told to his superior. So now you're saying a senior citizen who committed no crime should be locked up and sodomized.
3. Paterno stated that what he was told by the grad assistant was nowhere near the level or specifics of what was reported in the grand jury report, and none of us know what he did or didn't actually know.

That. And an overall excellent post.

I really don't know what to think about this bizarre series of events in Happy Valley. It's absolutely astonishing. What I do know, however, is that we should let due process play out before we sentence Joe Paterno to oral copulation. Let's be serious and allow Paterno's side of the story to at least be heard and evaluated before such a drastic decision is made. Regardless of the level of information Paterno had acquired of the situation involving Sandusky -- and, again, none of us truly know to the extent of which Paterno was actually informed -- I do agree that he should just use this unfortunate event as a transition into his life after football. Retirement due to sodomy is probably not the segue Joe envisioned, but it's obviously time to move on in State College.

I will choose to wait until all the facts come to light as it pertains to Paterno. I really find it hard to believe that he would cover something like this up. It does him and his program no good. In fact, the fallout would have been minimal towards him and the program if when reported it was passed along. The question is, what was actually reported to him. The conflicting reports as to what was said to him and what he said to the AD. The prosecutors and the GJ believe that what was reported to Paterno was "something" that was inappropriate, but not explicitly sexual in nature. The details of what McQueary testified to were very detailed and graphic and the GJ and prosecutors believed him 100%. Based on that, I have to believe he was asked what he reported to Paterno. If the prosecutors and GJ believed both of them 100%, as they have stated, then either McQueary minimized what he told Paterno in 2002 or he changed it in 2011 to protect Paterno. Either of those things are very plausable. If it is the latter, then both should be fired, as hard as that is to say for me being a huge Paterno fan. Facts are facts. If he is a part of this cover up, he needs to go. They have already said he is in no way a suspect and has served as a prosecution witness from day 1.

This is very troubling to say the least. There are fans and non-fans of Paterno's all over this site. Both sides are very disturbed to think he was a part of covering this up as I would say that everyone from both sides, whether a fan or not, respected him and the program he ran through Friday 11/4/2011. As of 11/5/2011, that is all in question. For that, I am saddened. For those kids and their families, I shed tears on Saturday and prayed.

Anyone watch Law and Order SVU? There was a incredibly similar plotline on a recent episode that featured Carmelo and Chris Bosh where the coach abused kids on his team that didn't report it because the coach promised them a better life through basketball.

The issue (besides with Sandusky) isn't the criminal nature of the actions, its the huge lack of moral responsibility and judgement. You're a grown man and a legend, Joe, if you weren't going to stand up for these kids then who is?! Obviously no one. Sickening.

Falcons, I respect that you want to give him the benefit of doubt, but the facts say he covered up the situation and has since lied in his press release.

McQueary testified he told Paterno (the next day) exactly what was going on in that shower, but Paterno chose to just inform the AD (the next day). All of this smacks of a coverup and a whitewash of events.

You see, despite this incident and prior allegations against Sandusky that Paterno had to have known about, he (Paterno) still approved giving Sandusky an office and keys to the facilities after he "retired". How do you do that when you have to know (or suspect) that the man is abusing children?

All of this reeks of CYA and trying to protect the PSU brand. Otherwise, I think SOMEONE goes to the police (beyond PSU) and reports what happened. Otherwise, previous allegations that were investigated by the PSU police don't simply stop and go away.

Paterno and PSU have put themselves out there for decades as being above all the slime that can happen in college athletics; they put the program on a pedestal and the public perception was they simply did no wrong -- ever.

I believe the pressure to maintain this is what prompted the coverup, along with McQueary wanting to keep his job. It's interesting that he went from GA to assistant coach very shortly after all this was "resolved" by the people now accused of perjury and covering it up.

I don't believe in coincidences and I don't believe most law enforcement authorities do, either.

Paterno is as responsible for what happened to those kids that were later abused as the other people who covered this up are. Their actions allowed a known pedophile to operate freely in their midst for years AND, in fact, it was this same group who gave him keys to the facilities where he could continue to do so.

All of it is inexcusable.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_sandusky_penn_state_presence_last_week110711


Sandusky was on campus last week, worked out in the weight room multiple times.

gives new meaning to the term "Jerry's kids", eh?

Sandusky's "safe house" was the Penn State football facilities and Paterno knew it.

I don't get how Joe can make a statement saying he was fooled unless the Ginger Assistant didn't tell him what he claims he told him in the Grand Jury report...which is unlikely. Knowing this, it makes no sense to me why he would even issue a statement saying he was fooled, when it's obvious he wasn't fooled at all (if the claims are true...).

Joe Pa is gone. If he's not canned, I will buy everyone a free iPad2.

This entire situation is completely fucked up.

Also, I've stayed at the Toftrees resort mentioned in the pdf. I now feel sick to my stomach that we could have stayed in one of the rooms he used for this shit.

Mulva;961666 wrote:I guess I just don't get how you have such a huge problem with someone for failing to relay a report of a potential sexual assault to the police and instead doing the minimum required legally

You don't understand how I have such a huge problem with someone allowing a man they knew to be a child predator to use HIS program to have access to more young children that he proceeded to anally rape? I guess we're just not on the same wavelength then....

Paterno, at best, seemed to not even care that much(being that he knew said child rapist was still around children in his program) and at worst, aided him in having a medium to lure children to be raped.

2kool4skool;962155 wrote:You don't understand how I have such a huge problem with someone allowing a man they knew to be a child predator to use HIS program to have access to more young children that he proceeded to anally rape? I guess we're just not on the same wavelength then....

Mulva;961666 wrote:I guess I just don't get how you have such a huge problem with someone for failing to relay a report of a potential sexual assault to the police and instead doing the minimum required legally, but at the same time you have no problem with locking up and having prisoners rape a human being for displaying a lack of ethical judgment.

I get the first part (having the huge problem with his lack of action), but I can't comprehend the two viewpoints together.

You should have either read further, or not selectively quoted my post like the rest of it wasn't there, because I pretty clearly explained my viewpoint right after you chose to stop quoting.

It's unforgivable to fail to notify police that you received a report of a possible sexual assault of a child, but it's perfectly acceptable to support and even advocate for the imprisonment and sexual assault of an 85 year old man?

The first viewpoint I can understand. It's the hypocrisy and juxtaposition of the 2 mindsets combined that I don't get.

It's been established that he didn't commit a criminal act, so the entire argument is a moralistic one. Punishing someone for not meeting their ethical responsibility by advocating that they be imprisoned and "anally plundered" seems equally unethical to me. If he deserves to be locked up and raped for failing to notify police of a possible sexual assault (that he didn't commit or witness personally), what should happen to you for advocating that he be sexually assaulted in response?

I understand that one was a real life situation and the other one is a meaningless hypothetical message board opinion, but there's a flaw in the moral logic.

Mulva;962182 wrote:I understand that one was a real life situation and the other one is a meaningless hypothetical message board opinion, but there's a flaw in the moral logic.

Paterno's apathy and/or assistance resulted in innocent children being raped. He's not innocent, they were. Not a difficult concept.

An eye for an eye isn't always the best solution, but in the case of people who don't seem to think raping 10 year olds is a big deal, maybe it will give him a better understanding...

@nspence94: Um psu might be a no no for me ewwww

Noah Spence, #4 recruit in the country who was thought to be a Penn State lean.

also, yikes...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017979/index.htm

karen lotz;962199 wrote:@nspence94: Um psu might be a no no for me ewwww

Noah Spence, #4 recruit in the country who was thought to be a Penn State lean.

Hopefully they lose every recruit that was leaning their way.

2kool4skool;962194 wrote:An eye for an eye isn't always the best solution, but in the case of people who don't seem to think raping 10 year olds is a big deal, maybe it will give him a better understanding...

An eye for an eye would only be applicable if he had been the one committing the sexual assaults. Clearly we disagree on this topic, but it isn't really relevant anyway. It was just a philosophical tangent.

There's no way we'll ever know exactly what was reported at each stage. To me it seems equally likely that the grad assistant was trying to cover his own ass to the grand jury (considering he is the one who actually witnessed the alleged rape taking place, and his only response was to go to his office and call home) as it is that he told Paterno everything and JoePa failed to notify police/didn't give the AD the full details.

Mulva, what do you think the grad assistant told Paterno?

I would have to think the GA would have to be phyically shaken for witnessing this incident. At the minimum, if you assume the GA did not get into specifics with Paterno, but just told him he got a weird vibe after walking into the locker room with Sandusky and some 10 year old you would think it would be enough for Paterno to suspect the worst and call the authorities. Especially when you factor it was not the first time that those sort of allegations came up in and around Sandusky.

Mulva;962208 wrote:An eye for an eye would only be applicable if he had been the one committing the sexual assaults. Clearly we disagree on this topic, but it isn't really relevant anyway. It was just a philosophical tangent.

There's no way we'll ever know exactly what was reported at each stage. To me it seems equally likely that the grad assistant was trying to cover his own ass to the grand jury (considering he is the one who actually witnessed the alleged rape taking place, and his only response was to go to his office and call home) as it is that he told Paterno everything and JoePa failed to notify police/didn't give the AD the full details.

I believe we know enough that at the very least he acted (or failed to act) in a manner inconsistent with being able to remain the coach of the football team. I'm not one to give a damn what you call things, so it matters little to me whether he's fired, or "retires". Bottom line, he needs to be gone.

karen lotz;962205 wrote:also, yikes...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017979/index.htm

It mentions Sandusky's sons that were in the Penn State program at the time he retired. Sandusky and his wife were unable conceive their on children. His son's were adopted. I don't like to even think about that.

queencitybuckeye;962249 wrote:I believe we know enough that at the very least he acted (or failed to act) in a manner inconsistent with being able to remain the coach of the football team. I'm not one to give a damn what you call things, so it matters little to me whether he's fired, or "retires". Bottom line, he needs to be gone.

I agree with that. He should be forced to step down (along with everyone else involved). His legacy should and will be tarnished, along with the rest of the university. I just think calling for prosecution (or prison rape) is overboard considering

a) he wasn't a direct witness to a crime, he was given secondhand information
b) we don't know exactly what he was told and in what context, and I hate to assume
c) he did apparently quickly report what he was told to his superior, as required by law

If people believe he was aware of exactly what was going on and actively attempted to cover it up, that's a different story. But the prosecution and grand jury both clearly believe his testimony, and I think it's wrong to vilify a person for simply not going above and beyond. I think some people honestly believe that following the chain of command instead of going directly to the cops makes him and others as guilty as the guy who was allegedly committing the assaults, and that's insane to me.

Little Danny;962232 wrote:Mulva, what do you think the grad assistant told Paterno?

I would have to think the GA would have to be phyically shaken for witnessing this incident. At the minimum, if you assume the GA did not get into specifics with Paterno, but just told him he got a weird vibe after walking into the locker room with Sandusky and some 10 year old you would think it would be enough for Paterno to suspect the worst and call the authorities. Especially when you factor it was not the first time that those sort of allegations came up in and around Sandusky.

I have no idea what was said during each meeting, and I'm not going to try to speculate. Honestly, I sort of doubt that any of them remembered exactly what was said in their meetings 8-9 years after the fact, and there was probably some bullshit in all of their statements (intentional or not). Clearly the prosecution and grand jury both believed Paterno's testimony.

And yeah, I would think it would be enough for Paterno to call the authorities. I would also have thought it would be enough for the grad assistant, his father, the athletic director, or the president to call the authorities depending on what they were told. Or the janitor in the other reported instance. Or any of the people the janitor told. There were "moral shortcomings" at most if not all of those steps (assuming the grand jury testimony is accurate), but most people did what they were required to do by law, and at least reported it to their superiors rather than just ignoring it.

It might be morally reprehensible not to do more and go to the police directly (which is why they should clean house), but to impose criminal penalties on someone and lock them up because they didn't go above and beyond requirements? Ridiculous. That's what the requirements are for.

It's a shame that nobody did more, but I personally don't feel it's right to force someone to get involved. At the end of the day the only person responsible for Sandusky's alleged actions is Sandusky. Some people might disagree, but that's why it's called an opinion.

I think it's quite the coincidence that every step taken in both (all) instances of allegations related to Sandusky ended up getting dropped at some point before it reached law enforcement. All these people heard or saw things that would have prompted most people to call police -- and yet nobody did.

That's too much coincidence to be anything other than a coverup. At some point in the chain of command, someone put the kibosh on things moving further. And in the interim and amidst all these allegations, Sandusky was given "emeritus" status by the university, an office, and keys to facilities. Which allowed him to continue molesting children, probably on PSU property.

This is the part of all the information out there that screams "coverup" to me. Too much coincidence...and the ONLY beneficiary of all this (aside from Sandusky) is the PSU name and reputation (which includes Paterno).

I do think that if any PSU officials knew or was even aware of what was possibly seen between Sandusky and a child in the locker room, at most after his retirement he should have been banned from campus, now that way PSU did cover their ass but they didn't. They harbored him and allowed him to have those kids on their facilities and now that is catching up to them!