Don't Ask, Don't Tell

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FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Dec 11, 2010 8:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/349200;_ylt=AqQIeGKI1vfyR9OWh1cixY1H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTJsOHRyNGNkBGFzc2V0Ay9zL2NzbS8zNDkyMDAEY2NvZGUDbXBfZWNfOF8xMARjcG9zAzgEcG9zAzgEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwZW50YWdvbmFscmU-

It seems the military is taking it upon themselves to get rid of this loathsome dictate. It is really a shame that the Republican assholes in the Senate didn't vote this week to get rid of DADT.

I have gay friends who were in the military. They were risking their lives for this country, and yet they were terrified that someone would find out about them. This is bullshit.
Dec 11, 2010 8:29pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Dec 11, 2010 11:42 PM
FairwoodKing;596648 wrote:I have gay friends who were in the military. They were risking their lives for this country, and yet they were terrified that someone would find out about them. This is bullshit.
Terrified of what?
Dec 11, 2010 11:42pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Dec 12, 2010 1:39 AM
DADT should be repealed. No brainer.
Dec 12, 2010 1:39am
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Dec 12, 2010 2:18 AM
believer;596894 wrote:Terrified of what?

Of being tossed out of the military and of being thrown in jail. This has actually happened.
Dec 12, 2010 2:18am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Dec 12, 2010 8:09 AM
FairwoodKing;597058 wrote:Of being tossed out of the military and of being thrown in jail. This has actually happened.
Tossed out perhaps, but jailed? Got a link to back that one up? I spent 9 years in the military and never heard of ONE soldier or airman jailed for being gay.
Dec 12, 2010 8:09am
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Dec 12, 2010 9:59 AM
FairwoodKing;596648 wrote:It seems the military is taking it upon themselves to get rid of this loathsome dictate. It is really a shame that the Republican assholes in the Senate didn't vote this week to get rid of DADT.
The democrats have had the run of the senate and the house for years. Why didn't they wrangle the problem?

Are they "assholes" too? Say it.
Dec 12, 2010 9:59am
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Dec 12, 2010 10:18 AM
FairwoodKing;597058 wrote:Of being tossed out of the military and of being thrown in jail. This has actually happened.

Prove it.
Dec 12, 2010 10:18am
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BGFalcons82

Senior Member

2,173 posts
Dec 12, 2010 10:43 AM
CenterBHSFan;597152 wrote:The democrats have had the run of the senate and the house for years. Why didn't they wrangle the problem?

Are they "assholes" too? Say it.

But the boogeyman didn't exist then...since he's back, time to blame him!
Dec 12, 2010 10:43am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:01 AM
CenterBHSFan;597152 wrote:The democrats have had the run of the senate and the house for years. Why didn't they wrangle the problem?

Are they "assholes" too? Say it.
I'll answer this one for all of our OC leftist pals.

The Dems who were in a near Super Majority status in DC were pro-gay even if they largely ignored DADT, gay marriage, etc. for political expediency. They were not assholes. They were simply hostages to Republican and conservative bigotry.

See how that works?
Dec 12, 2010 11:01am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:24 AM
CenterBHSFan;597152 wrote:The democrats have had the run of the senate and the house for years. Why didn't they wrangle the problem?

Are they "assholes" too? Say it.
The Senate could not get the 60 to get to a vote.
Same happened this time when Reid was an idiot and did not allow debate or amendments to the bill. Susan Collins, and Joe Lieberman have come out against the ban and are trying to get a bill through.

It makes no sense to have the ban if you read the report that was released. The only reason why it is not repealed is sadly John McCain, who keeps changing the goal posts.
It is not that big a deal, but makes no sense to keep the ban in place.
Dec 12, 2010 11:24am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:35 AM
ptown_trojans_1;597241 wrote:It is not that big a deal, but makes no sense to keep the ban in place.
It makes sense to me under the circumstances. Abolishing the policy might seem fair and reasonable, but it will, IMHO, have an equal and opposite reaction within the military ranks when commanders are forced to allow openly gay and lesbian soldiers to cohabitate with heterosexuals who would not be comfortable in that arrangement.

Unfortunately IMHO there would be a significant portion of soldiers, Marines, sailors, and airmen who would - shall we say - find their own ways to discourage the policy.

Therein lies the crux of the problem. Commanders know this will happen and are concerned about morale and discipline.

These issues would eventually pass but the complication that would arise in the repeal of DADT would cause more problems than it resolves.
Dec 12, 2010 11:35am
Ytowngirlinfla's avatar

Ytowngirlinfla

I wear real chevrons!

2,295 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:37 AM
FairwoodKing;596648 wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/349200;_ylt=AqQIeGKI1vfyR9OWh1cixY1H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTJsOHRyNGNkBGFzc2V0Ay9zL2NzbS8zNDkyMDAEY2NvZGUDbXBfZWNfOF8xMARjcG9zAzgEcG9zAzgEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwZW50YWdvbmFscmU-

It seems the military is taking it upon themselves to get rid of this loathsome dictate. It is really a shame that the Republican assholes in the Senate didn't vote this week to get rid of DADT.

I have gay friends who were in the military. They were risking their lives for this country, and yet they were terrified that someone would find out about them. This is bullshit.

Oh please most people in the military don't give a shit about gay people. Everyone knows who is gay and no one cares. I highly doubt anyone is terrified.
Dec 12, 2010 11:37am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:51 AM
believer;597246 wrote:It makes sense to me under the circumstances. Abolishing the policy might seem fair and reasonable, but it will, IMHO, have an equal and opposite reaction within the military ranks when commanders are forced to allow openly gay and lesbian soldiers to cohabitate with heterosexuals who would not be comfortable in that arrangement.

Unfortunately IMHO there would be a significant portion of soldiers, Marines, sailors, and airmen who would - shall we say - find their own ways to discourage the policy.

Therein lies the crux of the problem. Commanders know this will happen and are concerned about morale and discipline.

These issues would eventually pass but the complication that would arise in the repeal of DADT would cause more problems than it resolves.

No there won't. Read the report that was released. Some units will have initial discomfort, but will adapt. No commander said moral would drop as a result of lifting the ban. Commanders just said some units would feel some awkwardness, but that by itself should not result in keeping the ban.
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130%28secure-hires%29.pdf

My favorite quote is about a SPECOPS guy. One solider said he knew a SPECOPS soldier was gay, but he was big, bad, mean, and could kick peoples ass.
Dec 12, 2010 11:51am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:52 AM
Ytowngirlinfla;597248 wrote:Oh please most people in the military don't give a shit about gay people. Everyone knows who is gay and no one cares. I highly doubt anyone is terrified.

Exactly, which is why the ban makes no sense.
All of my friends, colleagues and friends of friends who are in the military don't give two shits about gays.
Dec 12, 2010 11:52am
Ytowngirlinfla's avatar

Ytowngirlinfla

I wear real chevrons!

2,295 posts
Dec 12, 2010 11:59 AM
ptown_trojans_1;597254 wrote:Exactly, which is why the ban makes no sense.
All of my friends, colleagues and friends of friends who are in the military don't give two shits about gays.

I agree, plus a lot of the people who got kicked out under the policy used the policy to just get out of the military.
Dec 12, 2010 11:59am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Dec 12, 2010 12:19 PM
ptown_trojans_1;597253 wrote:No there won't. Read the report that was released. Some units will have initial discomfort, but will adapt. No commander said moral would drop as a result of lifting the ban.
Motivating many of our recommendations is the conclusion, based on our numerous
engagements with the force, that repeal would work best if it is accompanied by a message
and policies that promote fair and equal treatment of all Service members, minimize
differences among Service members based on sexual orientation, and disabuse Service
members of any notion that, with repeal, gay and lesbian Service members will be afforded
some type of special treatment. Within the military culture, such a message maximizes the
opportunities for quick and smooth acceptance of gay and lesbian Service members within
the force. It is also consistent with all we heard from gay and lesbian Service members
themselves, who told us that they simply want a repeal of the law so that they can be treated
the same as everyone else, and serve the Nation without fear of separation if their sexual
orientation becomes known.
The part that gets me is "...we heard from gay and lesbian Service members themselves, who told us that they simply want a repeal of the law so that they can be treated the same as everyone else."

Really? How is it these gay & lesbian military members were interviewed for their opinions on DADT without being discharged for their obvious homosexuality under current regulations? But I digress.

My experience in the military was that everyone is indeed treated the same as everyone else. All DADT is asking is that gays and lesbians keep their sexual preferences private.

It may not be an ideal set-up but it's at least compromise.

Ptown, while you are serving this country in your own way and I respect that, as a former soldier I'm very confident that it will cause a lot more than "initial discomfort."
Dec 12, 2010 12:19pm
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Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 12, 2010 12:57 PM
I'm gonna disagree, Believer. The generations now coming into the military, for the most part, don't have the hangups about gays that prior generations have had. They simply don't care one way or another.

It's been a stupid policy and deprived the country of a lot of good service people -- and it's time to repeal it.
Dec 12, 2010 12:57pm
C

cbus4life

Ignorant

2,849 posts
Dec 12, 2010 1:11 PM
believer;597218 wrote:I'll answer this one for all of our OC leftist pals.

The Dems who were in a near Super Majority status in DC were pro-gay even if they largely ignored DADT, gay marriage, etc. for political expediency. They were not assholes. They were simply hostages to Republican and conservative bigotry.

See how that works?

Well, you don't speak for me, i thought the Democrats really screwed it up and were idiots in this regard, too.
Dec 12, 2010 1:11pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Dec 12, 2010 1:24 PM
Yes Democrats should have already gotten this through.

But that doesn't mean it's right for Republicans (or Democrats) to block this now.

Epic fail on both parts.
Dec 12, 2010 1:24pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Dec 12, 2010 2:17 PM
In todays generation, it's my belief that everybody in the military already knows who's gay/straight/bi.
And, I agree with WB on this: the younger people just don't want to be bothered with caring.
Dec 12, 2010 2:17pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Dec 12, 2010 2:18 PM
I Wear Pants;597347 wrote:Yes Democrats should have already gotten this through.

But that doesn't mean it's right for Republicans (or Democrats) to block this now.

Epic fail on both parts.
Exactly.

However, the whole point of this thread created by FWK is to put all the blame on republicans, and that crap just isn't going to fly.
Dec 12, 2010 2:18pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Dec 12, 2010 5:01 PM
CenterBHSFan;597505 wrote:Exactly.

However, the whole point of this thread created by FWK is to put all the blame on republicans, and that crap just isn't going to fly.

Wrong. If it hadn't been for McCain and his fellow Republicans, this would have been overturned a few days ago. The Repubs are holding up the show, not the Dems.
Dec 12, 2010 5:01pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Dec 12, 2010 5:04 PM
But the Democrats didn't seem to be in any hurry to repeal it when they had a supermajority is the point I believe.

So while yes, the Republicans held it up this time and they shouldn't have the Democrats shouldn't automatically get a pass because they've been fairly inept on the issue as well.
Dec 12, 2010 5:04pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Dec 12, 2010 5:08 PM
Pants, McCain didn't have the power for years to do that. The dems had control for HOW LONG?

Are you saying that they couldn't have done this in that time? Why didn't they?

They could have damn well done it and nobody could have stopped them - that's your answer.

Again, putting the blame on the republicans isn't gonna fly with ANYBODY who can remember anything that happened within that timeframe; whether they like it or not.
Dec 12, 2010 5:08pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Dec 12, 2010 5:08 PM
I'll tell you another problem that has come up because of this policy. There have been many Middle Easterners who have joined the military to be translators in Arabic and other Middle Eastern languages. For some reason a great many of them turned out to be gay and were ultimately thrown out. This has left our military sorely in need of quality translators and it has hurt our military operations in those countries.
Dec 12, 2010 5:08pm