Steubenville question

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Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

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Sep 24, 2010 11:59 AM
icskins;495342 wrote:The way the OHSAA website reads is pretty confusing. Look at page 2 - 5.3

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/ftrglt.pdf
5.3 Non-member OHSAA school opponents are assigned a point value based upon male enrollment in grades 9-11. Second level points are awarded based upon the point value of the OHSAA non-member school multiplied times the number of victories by the non-member school (one-half value for a tie).
Oh, I see; you're confused by, "number of victories by the non-member school" since it says victories instead of spelling out victories over non-member schools. Like I said, I'm pretty sure if the out of state school plays an in state school the points for that Ohio School are calculated for the proper division.

If no one chimes in you can always email Joe Eitel, I'm pretty sure he'd [email protected]
Sep 24, 2010 11:59am
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icskins

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Sep 24, 2010 12:10 PM
Bigred1995;495358 wrote:Oh, I see; you're confused by, "number of victories by the non-member school" since it says victories instead of spelling out victories over non-member schools. Like I said, I'm pretty sure if the out of state school plays an in state school the points for that Ohio School are calculated for the proper division.

If no one chimes in you can always email Joe Eitel, I'm pretty sure he'd [email protected]

Good point. I should have done that. I think he might have some idea. lol

Thanks
Sep 24, 2010 12:10pm
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holdingout

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Sep 24, 2010 12:13 PM
FairwoodKing;493598 wrote:Big Red cleared $20K by playing at home against St. John's. We will clear about $1000 by playing at Massillon. That's why we play so many home games.

Our school cleared 20k last week also. We should clear only around 1500 playing away this week.
Sep 24, 2010 12:13pm
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FairwoodKing

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Sep 24, 2010 1:49 PM
holdingout;495102 wrote:Hey Fairwood, can you try and answer this for me ? Or maybe some other Big Red poster.

I don't know the exact trail of football money going through the system, but I assume the final profits (after paying for volleyball, golf, lights in the stadium, and everything else) goes into the school's general fund.

As far as the St. John's game was concerned, they brought only about 100 fans. In a situation like this, Big Red is assured of having at least 4000 fans in the seats at $6 a head. That means a total gate of at least $24K. The payout to the other team is never more than around $4000. That leaves a profit of $20K. When we play an away game, even to a place like Massillon, we receive around $1000 above and beyond expenses.

Of course, when we play teams like Massillon and Brooke at home, we get a huge payday. We also got a nice paycheck for playing in the Rally at the Wolvarena.

No one has told me how much we will clear for the entire 2010 season, but I think I can figure it out using some simple math. If my calculations are correct, we should clear at least $200K this year. No wonder the school wants to play eight home games from now on.
Sep 24, 2010 1:49pm
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icskins

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174 posts
Oct 28, 2010 7:56 AM
FYI, about the points question, I emailed Joe Eitel just to make sure what the correct answer is since the OHSAA site is so vague. If Ohio school A beats out of state D1 school, and then out of state school beats a D6 Ohio school, you would still get points like they beat a D1 team. Likewise, if the out of state was D6 and beats a D1 Ohio team, you would only get D6 points.

That is just flat out silly in my opinion.
Oct 28, 2010 7:56am
fish82's avatar

fish82

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Oct 28, 2010 9:03 AM
icskins;535890 wrote:FYI, about the points question, I emailed Joe Eitel just to make sure what the correct answer is since the OHSAA site is so vague. If Ohio school A beats out of state D1 school, and then out of state school beats a D6 Ohio school, you would still get points like they beat a D1 team. Likewise, if the out of state was D6 and beats a D1 Ohio team, you would only get D6 points.

That is just flat out silly in my opinion.
Agreed, but to calculate the enrollment for the opponents of OOS teams would be a logistical nightmare. Back in the Jurassic Period, all OOS games were counted as an open date, and were assigned an average point value from the other games. It was the fair way to do it, but as the number of OOS games increased, they had to change it. Using that method Big Red would not qualify for the dance this year with an 8-2 record.
Oct 28, 2010 9:03am
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 9:47 AM
I understand that, but why can they figure the proper points when an OOS plays an in state team? Take Wheeling Park, they play numerous Ohio schools. Steubenville beat them and gets D1 points for all of Park's wins even when they beat a D3 Ohio team. You would think that Ohio could figure out the proper size of Ohio schools.

My personal opinion on the out of state schedules is that there should be a minimum number of Ohio schools on your schedule to qualify for Ohio playoffs.
Oct 28, 2010 9:47am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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Oct 28, 2010 9:55 AM
If they passed a rule like that, then they would also have to pass a rule saying that they local teams have to schedule each other. Would IC, Buckeye, Edison, Harrison, etc... really want Big Red on their schedule every year? I doubt it, since they don't want us in their league to begin with.

Also, what difference does it make? Not that long ago Big Red had a schedule of mostly Ohio teams, and they still made the playoffs and did well.

The creme will rise to the top regardless.
Oct 28, 2010 9:55am
fish82's avatar

fish82

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Oct 28, 2010 10:05 AM
ManO'War;535965 wrote:If they passed a rule like that, then they would also have to pass a rule saying that they local teams have to schedule each other. Would IC, Buckeye, Edison, Harrison, etc... really want Big Red on their schedule every year? I doubt it, since they don't want us in their league to begin with.

Also, what difference does it make? Not that long ago Big Red had a schedule of mostly Ohio teams, and they still made the playoffs and did well.

The creme will rise to the top regardless.
No they wouldn't. There are plenty of teams today who are willing to travel all over the state to fill a schedule.
Oct 28, 2010 10:05am
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 10:15 AM
Manowar, I know that. I am not saying that they are doing anything wrong with their schedule now. I just find it odd that there are so many OOS teams on it. They are playing by the same rules as everyone else. I am just suggesting that this might be something to look at in the future. I know it won't change, but this is an opinion forum. I was merely giving my opinion.
Oct 28, 2010 10:15am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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Oct 28, 2010 11:05 AM
Just take a look at all the teams our size within a 50 mile radius around Steubenville that has dropped Big Red in the recent past.

There are not that many schools with available dates left to play.
Oct 28, 2010 11:05am
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 11:28 AM
I understand that, however the home schedule that you guys want to play also plays into that. Again, in my opinion, I would never sign a contract where we wouldn't get as many home games. I understand the whole bigger stadium, etc. argument. I just still wouldn't do it. TO me, money is not everything. Maybe there would be a smaller gate, but I try to look at what is best for the kids. I was very upset when IC wanted to play all the games at your stadium. I felt that they sold the kids out. Those guys would love to be able to play a team like Steubenville at home.
Oct 28, 2010 11:28am
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 11:29 AM
Also, you say look at the teams your size, but I have also seen it mentioned by some posters that you don't want to schedule anyone in your region when schools like Dover, or Mooney have been suggested.
Oct 28, 2010 11:29am
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Thinthickbigred

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Oct 28, 2010 11:32 AM
Mooney is not in our region.
Oct 28, 2010 11:32am
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 12:03 PM
My apologies. I was not speaking only of this year. They were in your region 2 years ago, and that was said then. Now it has been said, in reference to Mooney, that there is no reason to play them because they are the same division.
Oct 28, 2010 12:03pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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Oct 28, 2010 12:21 PM
Okay, so if we get rid of the out of state teams....that leaves 8 dates to fill, are we going to play Mooney 8 times??

Dover is in a league, and they only have a few open dates. We have played Dover in the past and they dropped us after 87, and then after 98 (depending on who you listen to) the teams dropped each other.
Oct 28, 2010 12:21pm
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 1:03 PM
I don't know. That is not up to me. Are you saying that there are only 2 schools in the entire state of Ohio that will play you? Again, with wanting 7-8 home games, that kind of limits who you could even talk to.
Oct 28, 2010 1:03pm
d.woods50fan.'s avatar

d.woods50fan.

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Oct 28, 2010 1:38 PM
So here is my question how come IC has never played Dover, Mooney, Ursuline, and Massillon etc. @ Home and Home? Just remember both teams are just high school boys. SCHEDULES: Take is year for example if IC and BR switched schedules, BR would be 9-0 and a 6 seed and IC would be 0-9. Then if BR would beat EDISON this week then they MIGHT get a Home Playoff Game, and EVERYONE would say IC's schedule is HARD. If BR were to play ANY team Home and Home that had a small stadium the BR fans would sit on the home side JUST for a place to sit EVERYBODY would B**** how " they are sat on our home side".
Oct 28, 2010 1:38pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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Oct 28, 2010 1:40 PM
The vast majority of teams, I'd say 99%, are in leagues, so that severly limits who you can schedule. The two Ohio teams we do have are independents, and are in the same boat as we are.

Besides, Massillon, Ursuline, and Mooney, there are not many Ohio independents that I can think of. The only other ones with holes in their schedules are the local OVAC teams that are not in the Buckeye 8, but they have come and gone from the schedule too.
Oct 28, 2010 1:40pm
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 1:45 PM
d.woods50fan.;536160 wrote:So here is my question how come IC has never played Dover, Mooney, Ursuline, and Massillon etc. @ Home and Home? Just remember both teams are just high school boys. SCHEDULES: Take is year for example if IC and BR switched schedules, BR would be 9-0 and a 6 seed and IC would be 0-9. Then if BR would beat EDISON this week then they MIGHT get a Home Playoff Game, and EVERYONE would say IC's schedule is HARD. If BR were to play ANY team Home and Home that had a small stadium the BR fans would sit on the home side JUST for a place to sit EVERYBODY would B**** how " they are sat on our home side".

Please explain to me what the entire first part of your post has to do with anything? I am in no way being disrespectful to Steubenville. Many times throughout this thread, I have taken pains to point that out. You, of course, have to throw IC into this.

So are you saying that you play 8 home games as a favor to the other teams, and not for any other reason? That is very generous.
Oct 28, 2010 1:45pm
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 1:46 PM
ManO'War;536165 wrote:The vast majority of teams, I'd say 99%, are in leagues, so that severly limits who you can schedule. The two Ohio teams we do have are independents, and are in the same boat as we are.

Besides, Massillon, Ursuline, and Mooney, there are not many Ohio independents that I can think of. The only other ones with holes in their schedules are the local OVAC teams that are not in the Buckeye 8, but they have come and gone from the schedule too.

Very good points. I guess that in my scenario, with a certain number of mandatory Ohio games, the State would have to force everyone into a conference that has scheduling. Not very likely or practical I guess.
Oct 28, 2010 1:46pm
d.woods50fan.'s avatar

d.woods50fan.

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Oct 28, 2010 3:16 PM
icskins;536169 wrote:Please explain to me what the entire first part of your post has to do with anything? I am in no way being disrespectful to Steubenville. Many times throughout this thread, I have taken pains to point that out. You, of course, have to throw IC into this.

So are you saying that you play 8 home games as a favor to the other teams, and not for any other reason? That is very generous.

You are asking about BR's schedule and you mentioned dover and mooney, so Im asking why IC doesnt play these teams? Im not being disrespectful of IC. Its just an example BR plays its home schedule for fans, points and money, its simple. Most road trips have little seating and everyone knows how well BR's fan base travels.
Oct 28, 2010 3:16pm
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 3:40 PM
I was taking a look at teams within 50 miles as was suggested by manowar. IC plays plenty of Ohio teams and struggles with their schedule. Why would they want to play tougher teams than what they do now? They can't beat anyone with a winning record most years.

Of course other stadiums are different. That is part of the beauty of it. Maybe there is a game where you can only bring 500 fans. That means that they other team has the homefield and all the advantages that come with being the home team. I know it is not good from the money aspect of it. I don't care about the money part of it though for this discussion.
Oct 28, 2010 3:40pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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Oct 28, 2010 4:08 PM
Why would Big Red sign a contract that forces a large number of our fans to miss the game? That wouldn't be good on our part....not financially or otherwise.
Oct 28, 2010 4:08pm
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icskins

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Oct 28, 2010 4:14 PM
I don't know. Obviously they wouldn't and won't. I guess the point is though, don't say "no one will play us". Please say "no one will play us under our rules". I am not saying that there is anything wrong with wanting more home games. If I was in charge and had a stadium like that, I would want as many home games as possible. I would not then say that we HAVE to get all of these OOS teams because nobody from Ohio will play us.
Oct 28, 2010 4:14pm