Impressed by the Trump administration part II

A lot of the hot takes on NK on this site have so far not aged well at all.

it's interesting to consider that the media mocking Trump for this and declaring it could never happen June 12th.....made it happen on June 12th.  Heck, I could see Trump writing that letter solely for the purpose of chumming the "fake news" waters.

posted by QuakerOats

June 12 summit back on .....no doubt the media is pissed as Trump may pull off another big win. 

Sure. This is nice. 

A few things that are good.

1. Bolton was not in the meeting. That is very, very good and shows that Trump is not listening to him on this issue. That is great.

2. Expectations are starting to come together. Previously, Trump wanted to have North Korea give up their nukes during the meeting,. Now, this is just a face to face intro he said. 

That leads to some cautious things to focus on.

1. North Korea has always wanted to meet with a President face to face without preconditions about them giving up their nukes. Clinton, Bush, and Obama turned that down. Trump just accepted it. He just conceded that he will meet with North Korea without them pledging to give up their nukes. If you read the statements by North Korea, they are not giving up their nukes on their own. 

2. Human Rights, Chemical weapons, and Bio weapons are not on the table as they have not been discussed as of yet. 

3. Trump basically said China and South Korea will figure out the details, pretty much washing our hands if we sign a peace treaty. 

This may all work out yet, but I'm still very, very cautious about a meeting and what comes from it. Trump will say this is the best meeting of all time, but the specifics of what comes out from the meeting will tell if this is still the same old, same old game, or if he is truly doing something different. 

Devil is always in the details and the oversight.

posted by QuakerOats

Devil is always in the details and the oversight.

Ding ding. 
The only way this works is if North Korea agrees to rejoin the Nonproliferation Treaty, intrusive IAEA safeguards, inspections, and a verified dismantlement of its Chemical, Bio, and Nuclear Program. Anything short of that is a failure. 

Ptown comes in telling us to be cautious (most of us have been and still are). Last week he came in hot with his “told you so” posts. Lmao, take your own advice. 

posted by like_that

Ptown comes in telling us to be cautious (most of us have been and still are). Last week he came in hot with his “told you so” posts. Lmao, take your own advice. 

LOL. I said at the time that it could still work out. 

Number of Employed Americans Sets 9th Record Under Trump...

Federal Payroll Down By 24,000 Jobs...

that would be about $1.7 billion in annual savings from the headcount reduction.....just getting started.

U.S. oil output jumps to record 10.47 million barrels per day...

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Anything short of that is a failure. 

"De-nuking" would be a MASSIVE success.  Anything else is just icing on the cake.   But it appears you're already starting to set unrealistic expectations so that you can shit all over whatever deal happens.

posted by gut

"De-nuking" would be a MASSIVE success.  Anything else is just icing on the cake.   But it appears you're already starting to set unrealistic expectations so that you can shit all over whatever deal happens.

De-nuking would be a massive success. But, my point is how do you verify it? You verify it with international IAEA inspectors, going to sites to see the dismantling of that process as I said above. Those are the steps you need to take to ensure they are de-nuking. Otherwise, they would cheat. 

If North Korea agrees to de-nuke, but we don't have any means to verify it, it means nothing. 

So, you have learned a few things from obama's personal, unilateral, Iran deal. ??

posted by QuakerOats

So, you have learned a few things from obama's personal, unilateral, Iran deal. ??

Iran deal was unilateral? That's news to me. It was a multilateral deal with other countries and the IAEA. It also had robust IAEA verification measures. If anything, the Iran deal, technically, is a model for North Korea. 

I'm assuming you mean that it was not brought to Congress. Fair point. 

We'll see what Trump does with whatever agreement he can come up with. 

I really think Rudy is getting senile, but he comes out again with the talk of Trump pardoning himself.

At this point, it's clear Trump and his surrogates love trolling the left....but they keep falling for it.  Every time.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Iran deal was unilateral? That's news to me. It was a multilateral deal with other countries and the IAEA. It also had robust IAEA verification measures. If anything, the Iran deal, technically, is a model for North Korea. 

I'm assuming you mean that it was not brought to Congress. Fair point. 

We'll see what Trump does with whatever agreement he can come up with. 

I had this discussion with a very liberal friend of mine a couple weeks back with regards to Trump pulling out of the Iran deal.

He was adamant that the "President can not pull out of a treaty on his own without congressional approval".

I responded with "you are 100% correct, however, the Iran Deal was not a treaty" (yes, I was baiting him now)

He said "What do you mean it wasn't a treaty? It was signed by Obama as a treaty with many other countries"

Of course I replied with "A President can not enter into a treaty without Congressional approval, according to our own Constitution. Obama never got Congressional approval for the Iran Deal, which is why it was a 'Deal' and not a treaty. So, if a previous President can enter into a deal without Congressional approval, then a current one can pull out of said deal without Congressional Approval".

He then went on to talk about Russia and some other drivel because he realized he was completely wrong. I just told him he should really lay off Occupy Democrats and MSNBC if he wants to understand reality rather than a liberal fantasy world.

posted by gut

I really think Rudy is getting senile, but he comes out again with the talk of Trump pardoning himself.

At this point, it's clear Trump and his surrogates love trolling the left....but they keep falling for it.  Every time.

Yeah, man he is pure entertainment. I actually enjoy watching him knowing he is just playing to the camera and the game. 

posted by jmog

I had this discussion with a very liberal friend of mine a couple weeks back with regards to Trump pulling out of the Iran deal.

 

He was adamant that the "President can not pull out of a treaty on his own without congressional approval".

 

I responded with "you are 100% correct, however, the Iran Deal was not a treaty" (yes, I was baiting him now)

He said "What do you mean it wasn't a treaty? It was signed by Obama as a treaty with many other countries"

Of course I replied with "A President can not enter into a treaty without Congressional approval, according to our own Constitution. Obama never got Congressional approval for the Iran Deal, which is why it was a 'Deal' and not a treaty. So, if a previous President can enter into a deal without Congressional approval, then a current one can pull out of said deal without Congressional Approval".

He then went on to talk about Russia and some other drivel because he realized he was completely wrong. I just told him he should really lay off Occupy Democrats and MSNBC if he wants to understand reality rather than a liberal fantasy world.

Yeah, that is the biggest flaw in the deal, that the administration did not go all out on getting it through the Senate like an actual treaty. If they would have brought in the Senate early on, I think it would have passed the 2/3rds needed, but barely. 

Regarding Trump, he will need a lot of Ds to agree on whatever agreement comes out of the Korean talks.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

Yeah, that is the biggest flaw in the deal, that the administration did not go all out on getting it through the Senate like an actual treaty. If they would have brought in the Senate early on, I think it would have passed the 2/3rds needed, but barely. 

Regarding Trump, he will need a lot of Ds to agree on whatever agreement comes out of the Korean talks.

 

If Trump is able to get a deal with NK and the Ds hold it up in the Senate...Let's assume this happens sometime in 2019-2020...that all but guarantees Trump re-election if the Ds are willing to stall/reject a NK nuclear weapon treaty.

posted by jmog

If Trump is able to get a deal with NK and the Ds hold it up in the Senate...Let's assume this happens sometime in 2019-2020...that all but guarantees Trump re-election if the Ds are willing to stall/reject a NK nuclear weapon treaty.

Depends on the details. Just like how any Iran deal was going to have a tough time in the Senate, any North Korea deal is going to have a tough time in the Senate if parts of it are unclear. 

posted by gut

"De-nuking" would be a MASSIVE success.  Anything else is just icing on the cake.   But it appears you're already starting to set unrealistic expectations so that you can shit all over whatever deal happens.

Sort of like how Obama-haters trashed the Iran Deal for things totally unrelated to denuclearization (but IrAn sp0nz0rs t3rr0r!!! Same failed logic as not doing anything with NK regime because they starve their people, etc. - Thankfully Trump and Obama thought outside the box). Maybe Europe can still salvage it. An Iran Deal with Europe + China (who is filling in for all the European companies backing out due to fear of U.S. Sanctions) and a Korean De-Nuclearization brokered by Trump would be tremendous achievements toward the betterment of mankind. 

And yet Trump may still face trouble in subsequent elections just like Winston Churchill did. 

posted by jmog

If Trump is able to get a deal with NK and the Ds hold it up in the Senate...Let's assume this happens sometime in 2019-2020...that all but guarantees Trump re-election if the Ds are willing to stall/reject a NK nuclear weapon treaty.

Sadly - in the world we live in, a Trump success in North Korea may not even solidify his re-election. For instance, if the Fed continues on its forecasted rate-hike path even if things get a bit shakier and causes a recession - voters may well leave no good deeds for mankind to go unpunished. 

With that said I still see no Democrat who can even conceivably challenge Trump at the presidential level. 

posted by gut

I really think Rudy is getting senile, but he comes out again with the talk of Trump pardoning himself.

At this point, it's clear Trump and his surrogates love trolling the left....but they keep falling for it.  Every time.

When Trump and Rudy says it - chalk it up to Trump and Rudy trolling libtards. If Loretta Lynch says it, it's implicit admission of high crimes and misdemeanors by Obummer and Gut loses his mind.