2020 Presidential Election thread

posted by jmog

1. Go back and read what you said. You said she could have pulled this stuff and she didn’t. Yet her and the dems in office tried for 4 years to get him out. So no, they never accepted a duly elected President.

2. Trump is acting like a sore loser. But you believing the dems have been any better is hilariously wrong. Have you been in a coma for the last 4 years? That would be the only way you could keep touting the dems as the bastions of diplomacy who always accept the duly elected R President. Because, if you were awake over the last 4 years you would know that never happened. 

We are talking past each other, which I think has happens to me a lot of here the last few months. You seem to be equating what Trump is doing to what Clinton and the Dems did in 2016, but that is not right at all. The correct comparison would be if Clinton did the same thing that Trump is doing now with lawsuits and if Obama said to hold on and wait until everything is certified. Sure, Clinton and the Dems did blame Russia, but they also said that Trump won the actual election, that the numbers were legit. They did not question the vote total. It is not a fair comparison at all. 

posted by jmog

Gut’s right, you are looking for plurality not majority. I also believe the true plurality are independents last I checked, neither Ds nor Rs.

Again, we are talking completely different things. 

If you take the number of actual federal votes taken, as in people that voted, on a national federal level that includes the Presidential popular vote, and the House vote, the country is more Dem. By pure voters. 

If you add in state houses and governors, it tilts back to the Republicans as they have voters that favor Republicans. 

If you take the total population of voters and nonvoters, then yeah, the country is more to the right and independent. 

I was referring to the straight federal voters that pick the President and House. 

posted by jmog

Maybe I misread the article, but that doesn't appear to be what happened at all. They changed their minds, told everyone they were changing their minds because the state changed its mind about doing an audit, and Trump called them between their statement and then signing an affidavit about their reason for changing their minds.

Even setting aside that, the state of Michigan has not found any irregularities that merit the audit, so they dropped it. Court case after court case has been dismissed because there is no fraud. None. 

Setting that aside, you have to admit, it is pretty damn bad for the President to call these guys and invite them to the White House. 

posted by QuakerOats

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-gop-election-checkers-rescind-certify-vote-claim-dems-bullied-them

After being harassed and labeled racists, the GOP members of the board have rescinded their certification vote -- amen.  Maybe the extent of the Wayne county fraud will be revealed and MI goes back to Trump.  Similar situation in WI and GA.......may be enough to turn things around. 

We'll see.  Shame the major election integrity problems ALWAYS emanate from a few major democrat strongholds/counties, every single time.

You are delusional. 

Show me the evidence of massive voter fraud in the courts? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Even setting aside that, the state of Michigan has not found any irregularities that merit the audit, so they dropped it. Court case after court case has been dismissed because there is no fraud. None. 

Setting that aside, you have to admit, it is pretty damn bad for the President to call these guys and invite them to the White House. 

False; the Trump campaign has only filed 3 lawsuits and only one was dropped and that was only because they got the relief they wanted.

All other cases were filed by individuals or other parties and those that have been dropped were due to lack of standing, in that the suits were filed before the election, not after. 

Real facts still matter.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You are delusional. 

Show me the evidence of massive voter fraud in the courts? 

That is what will be occurring, the fraud shown to the court, not to the media, per the statements made today.

posted by kizer permanente

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-targets-vote-certification-29da6aac9cc41e47f3095855e7af7031

Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote “should not be certified.”

Again, once the state said they were not going to audit it and also stated the canvass board essentially could not make their vote conditional on the audit, they rescinded their vote.  The change occurred because of the state's actions after the vote, not because of Trump's call .....although you and the liberal media want to make it look that way.   Trump has quite often made supportive calls to people who were taking an undeserved political beating or went out on a limb to do the right thing for the party (i.e. Jane Timken and others ousting the disgraced Matt Borges from the Ohio GOP leadership). 

posted by QuakerOats

That is what will be occurring, the fraud shown to the court, not to the media, per the statements made today.

If you and Rudy's bad hair product says so....

posted by kizer permanente

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-targets-vote-certification-29da6aac9cc41e47f3095855e7af7031

Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote “should not be certified.”

So he thanked them after they changed their vote. What am I missing. They didn’t change it after he called them.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

We are talking past each other, which I think has happens to me a lot of here the last few months. You seem to be equating what Trump is doing to what Clinton and the Dems did in 2016, but that is not right at all. The correct comparison would be if Clinton did the same thing that Trump is doing now with lawsuits and if Obama said to hold on and wait until everything is certified. Sure, Clinton and the Dems did blame Russia, but they also said that Trump won the actual election, that the numbers were legit. They did not question the vote total. It is not a fair comparison at all. 

You are now arguing semantics to sound right and moving the goalposts.

posted by jmog

So he thanked them after they changed their vote. What am I missing. They didn’t change it after he called them.

The revised vote is when they voted to certify after not certifying. They haven’t voted to not certify.  They want to rescind that revised vote. So you’re saying Trump called them to thank them after voting to certify? And you and qq want people to believe captain quid pro quo just called to thank them for their service after they voted to certify? 

posted by jmog

You are now arguing semantics to sound right and moving the goalposts.

No. I am doing a 1 to 1 comparison.

It is not semantics. You are the one comparing apples and oranges.  

posted by jmog

So he thanked them after they changed their vote. What am I missing. They didn’t change it after he called them.

Not just thanking them,  but inviting them to the White House. 

This whole thing is so fucked up. The lawsuits are a joke and farce. Rudy today was just an embarrassment. 

posted by kizer permanente

The revised vote is when they voted to certify after not certifying. They haven’t voted to not certify.  They want to rescind that revised vote. So you’re saying Trump called them to thank them after voting to certify? And you and qq want people to believe captain quid pro quo just called to thank them for their service after they voted to certify? 

Maybe you have me confused with someone who is a Trump fan.  All I did was read the article and go by what it said and then asked what I was missing.  

The article stated they certified under the understanding there would be an audit. They changed their vote once an audit was taken off the table.  Trump then did something stupid and got involved/called them and invited them to the WH like a moron not realizing how that looks optics wise.

Trump is a moron and did a moron thing, we know he is a moron. But based on the article it isn’t a fact that they changed to not certify after he called.  Unless, again, I am missing something.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

No. I am doing a 1 to 1 comparison.

It is not semantics. You are the one comparing apples and oranges.  

It’s not accepting/fighting an elected president, not on policy but being “illegitimately” elected.

I am comparing apples to apples, you just don’t want to admit it.  The democrats made up Russia bull crap to impeach Trump because, in their own words, he was illegitimately elected.

You are trying to act like the dems are holier than thou in this case because they didn’t fight the election, but they fought the results of that election for 3.5 f’ing years.

It is not different and you know it, you just won’t admit it.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Not just thanking them,  but inviting them to the White House. 

This whole thing is so fucked up. The lawsuits are a joke and farce. Rudy today was just an embarrassment. 

Rudy is a clown and he looked like an idiot up there.

posted by jmog

Maybe you have me confused with someone who is a Trump fan.  All I did was read the article and go by what it said and then asked what I was missing.  

The article stated they certified under the understanding there would be an audit. They changed their vote once an audit was taken off the table.  Trump then did something stupid and got involved/called them and invited them to the WH like a moron not realizing how that looks optics wise.

Trump is a moron and did a moron thing, we know he is a moron. But based on the article it isn’t a fact that they changed to not certify after he called.  Unless, again, I am missing something.

They didn’t change their vote to not certify though. They likely won’t have a chance to either. They wanted to rescind their vote.  They said they wanted to rescind their vote on Wednesday. They talked to Trump Tuesday night. Those are the facts. You can claim that they wanted to change their vote the whole time but that’s not what happened. They voted to not certify. 2 hours later they changed their vote to certify after being lambasted by the community on a zoom call. Trump called them that night. They next day they said they wanted to rescind their vote. It’s highly inappropriate for a sitting president to call voter canvassers. Even more inappropriate to invite them to the White House and they say they want to rescind their votes the next day. 

Georgia recount audit has been finished and the count will be certified tomorrow. 

posted by jmog

It’s not accepting/fighting an elected president, not on policy but being “illegitimately” elected.

I am comparing apples to apples, you just don’t want to admit it.  The democrats made up Russia bull crap to impeach Trump because, in their own words, he was illegitimately elected.

You are trying to act like the dems are holier than thou in this case because they didn’t fight the election, but they fought the results of that election for 3.5 f’ing years.

It is not different and you know it, you just won’t admit it.

No you are not, and you are combining so many different things over the last four years to try and compare it to what the President is doing now.

You simply are mistaking some of the events top try and prove your point. Stating the Russia bullcrap to impeach Trump is wrong as you need to go back and remember it was about the Ukraine call and even the China statement about Biden. But, I'll let your mistake slide for now. 

This is what I meant when I said a few weeks ago about living in two different worlds. I live in one where what the President is doing is pretty damn historic, pathetic, and way outside the norm. You are trying to both sides it and come up with your own story to not accept the reality of the situation. 

posted by iclfan2

Rudy is a clown and he looked like an idiot up there.

I was kind of keeping track of it, and then when I saw his hair dye rolling down his face, I could not take my eyes off the train wreck.