KnightRyder;1872603 wrote:i'm a life long browns fan, but unlike many i dont just call a player great because he is wearing a orange helmet. i have noticed most browns fan dont see what they are looking at. with kizer i see a guy that has no instincts in the pocket, that is something that cant be taught, he makes bad decision which explains why he has more ints than touchdowns. i see here the same crap by the same posters that defended manziel.

KnightRyder;1872611 wrote:it takes more than physical tools to be a good NFL qb. there are a host of qbs that busted that had all the tools of kizer. as Muhammad Ali would say " the mans a bum" another thing i aint buying that migraine crap the browns put out there, i know too many people who suffer from migraines to believe that nonsense

KnightRyder;1872620 wrote:thats the stupid thing i have ever read, when you look at kizer , does he understand pass protection, does he understand blitz's no , his sack total will tell that much. when he is in the pocket do you ever see feels slides moves throws, hell no! his footwork is basically stand and get sacked,. there is nothing in his skillset that transitions to the nfl. maybe you need to leave football to people that know a little something about it. maybe you should try quilting or baking

KnightRyder;1872672 wrote:he holds the ball to long because he cant read coverage , even when he only has to receivers in pattern, he rarely steps because he doesnt feel pressure thats why he is always getting sacked he is like a statues in the pocket with pigeons roosting on him. it quite obvious you dont watch much football or probably never played the game. you need to contact the idiot whisperer maybe he can help you. only fool would say a qb that gets sacked 5 times a game has impeccable footwork . not to mention how many ints does he have vs tds? i'm sure all the great qbs throw picks at the rate he is.

says the guy who's posts are laughed at even in the high school forum...please, go away

KnightRyder;1872430 wrote:if kizer throws it 50 times you can put this one in "L" column. now that i give it more thought if kizer is even on the field the browns will lose

KnightRyder;1872603 wrote:i'm a life long browns fan, but unlike many i dont just call a player great because he is wearing a orange helmet. i have noticed most browns fan dont see what they are looking at. with kizer i see a guy that has no instincts in the pocket, that is something that cant be taught, he makes bad decision which explains why he has more ints than touchdowns. i see here the same crap by the same posters that defended manziel.

KnightRyder;1872611 wrote:it takes more than physical tools to be a good NFL qb. there are a host of qbs that busted that had all the tools of kizer. as Muhammad Ali would say " the mans a bum" another thing i aint buying that migraine crap the browns put out there, i know too many people who suffer from migraines to believe that nonsense

KnightRyder;1872620 wrote:thats the stupid thing i have ever read, when you look at kizer , does he understand pass protection, does he understand blitz's no , his sack total will tell that much. when he is in the pocket do you ever see feels slides moves throws, hell no! his footwork is basically stand and get sacked,. there is nothing in his skillset that transitions to the nfl. maybe you need to leave football to people that know a little something about it. maybe you should try quilting or baking

KnightRyder;1872672 wrote:he holds the ball to long because he cant read coverage , even when he only has to receivers in pattern, he rarely steps because he doesnt feel pressure thats why he is always getting sacked he is like a statues in the pocket with pigeons roosting on him. it quite obvious you dont watch much football or probably never played the game. you need to contact the idiot whisperer maybe he can help you. only fool would say a qb that gets sacked 5 times a game has impeccable footwork . not to mention how many ints does he have vs tds? i'm sure all the great qbs throw picks at the rate he is.

KnightRyder;1872691 wrote:it may have been a coverage sack , that is open for debate, yet he had more than enough time got rid of the ball, but he has no concept of the pressure around him got stripped , he always stands in the pocket like he is encased in cement. he was the main reason ND only won four games last season. thanks for playing

says the guy who's posts are laughed at even in the high school forum...please, go away

KnightRyder;1872691 wrote:it may have been a coverage sack , that is open for debate, yet he had more than enough time got rid of the ball, but he has no concept of the pressure around him got stripped , he always stands in the pocket like he is encased in cement. he was the main reason ND only won four games last season. thanks for playing

lol Kizer was far from the reason ND won 4 games last year.


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Crimson streak;1872702 wrote:lol Kizer was far from the reason ND won 4 games last year.

Yeah, I'd pin that on their narcissistic turd of a head coach.

It absolutely starts with Kelly. He can't tell Kizer is better than Ziare and rotated them. Always a bad idea. But it's all on Kizer.. It has nothing to do with losing Stanley, Fuller, Prosise, Jaylon smith, Nick Martin, and sheldon day from the previous year I'm sure.

Who gives a shit about ND.

I want josh Gordon back!

SportsAndLady;1872710 wrote:Who gives a shit about ND.

I want josh Gordon back!

People determined to find the epitome of mediocrity!

kizer permanente;1872705 wrote:It absolutely starts with Kelly. He can't tell Kizer is better than Ziare and rotated them. Always a bad idea. But it's all on Kizer.. It has nothing to do with losing Stanley, Fuller, Prosise, Jaylon smith, Nick Martin, and sheldon day from the previous year I'm sure.

thats probaly because they were both awful

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/910941767175950336

Joe's the fucking man

Commander of Awesome;1872766 wrote:https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/910941767175950336

Joe's the fucking man

After watching the Giants LT in pass protection, I'd say we've been pretty blessed for the past 10 seasons with JT. The O-Linemen coming out from these spread offenses flat out suck once they hit the NFL.

BR1986FB;1872768 wrote:After watching the Giants LT in pass protection, I'd say we've been pretty blessed for the past 10 seasons with JT. The O-Linemen coming out from these spread offenses flat out suck once they hit the NFL.

YA BUT HE'S NOT WALTER JONES, ORLANDO PACE, JONATHAN OGDEN!!!!!1111

Commander of Awesome;1872772 wrote:YA BUT HE'S NOT WALTER JONES, ORLANDO PACE, JONATHAN OGDEN!!!!!1111

He's an exceptional pass blocker. I'll leave it at that.

BR1986FB;1872774 wrote:He's an exceptional pass blocker. I'll leave it at that.

YEA BUT HE'S NO ANTHONY MUNOZ!!!11

Also, BR, weren't you in favor of trading Joe Thomas? [LEFT]Yeah good idea lets trade him and create a hole with those spread offense tackles you are talking about. [/LEFT]

Commander of Awesome;1872784 wrote:YEA BUT HE'S NO ANTHONY MUNOZ!!!11

You're right there. He's not. Munoz was the best LT the league has had.

Commander of Awesome;1872797 wrote:Also, BR, weren't you in favor of trading Joe Thomas? [LEFT]Yeah good idea lets trade him and create a hole with those spread offense tackles you are talking about. [/LEFT]

Yep, and in hindsight, I still stand by it. By the time the Browns are winning, JT will likely be out of the league, or of no value. He's a luxury to have now, on a crappy team. Again, how many wins has this HOF LT been attributed to? Yeah, I thought so. Very nice player but he's not adding wins.

SMH.

BR1986FB;1872803 wrote:Yep, and in hindsight, I still stand by it. By the time the Browns are winning, JT will likely be out of the league, or of no value. He's a luxury to have now, on a crappy team. Again, how many wins has this HOF LT been attributed to? Yeah, I thought so. Very nice player but he's not adding wins.

I can't disagree more with this.

Joe Thomas is the fucking man. The browns should never trade him.

SportsAndLady;1872814 wrote:I can't disagree more with this.

Joe Thomas is the fucking man. The browns should never trade him.

This is the typical Cleveland fan mentality on him. Like Rob Schneider in "The Water Boy"....."we suck again! we're #32! we're #32! but at least we have bragging rights about having the best LT in football! That's the ONE thing we have going for us as fans"

JT is a luxury, not a necessity. I'm critical of his run blocking but I can see he's an exceptional pass blocker. But what has he REALLY done for the team in wins and losses? Nothing. Great player but I'd trade him, and his whole previous HOF career, for a franchise QB that WOULD have an impact on wins over that time frame.

Sure, HOF LT's aren't easy to find. Serviceable LT's, who can do the job, are not hard to find. Finding that franchise QB, who impacts games, is like finding a purple squirrel.

BR1986FB;1872830 wrote:This is the typical Cleveland fan mentality on him. Like Rob Schneider in "The Water Boy"....."we suck again! we're #32! we're #32! but at least we have bragging rights about having the best LT in football! That's the ONE thing we have going for us as fans"

JT is a luxury, not a necessity. I'm critical of his run blocking but I can see he's an exceptional pass blocker. But what has he REALLY done for the team in wins and losses? Nothing. Great player but I'd trade him, and his whole previous HOF career, for a franchise QB that WOULD have an impact on wins over that time frame.

Sure, HOF LT's aren't easy to find. Serviceable LT's, who can do the job, are not hard to find. Finding that franchise QB, who impacts games, is like finding a purple squirrel.

LT's and OL are extremely important but I agree that if I had the choice to have an All Pro LT, or any OL, vs an All Pro QB/WR Id go with the latter every time.

How often though are OL traded for a premium? I don't recall it many as that is just not how the NFL typically works. Matter of fact, not many great NFL players get traded as they mostly leave during FA.

Commander of Awesome;1872784 wrote:YEA BUT HE'S NO ANTHONY MUNOZ!!!11

He isn't.There's great and there's goat.

Commander of Awesome;1872784 wrote:YEA BUT HE'S NO ORLANDO PACE!!

indeed

thavoice;1872832 wrote:LT's and OL are extremely important but I agree that if I had the choice to have an All Pro LT, or any OL, vs an All Pro QB/WR Id go with the latter every time.

How often though are OL traded for a premium? I don't recall it many as that is just not how the NFL typically works. Matter of fact, not many great NFL players get traded as they mostly leave during FA.

I think they had an offer on the table for him from the Broncos for a pretty high pick two years ago.

When I make the comments about JT, I'm not downplaying the offensive line or LT, it's an important position to protect your QB. But WTF does it matter how good your LT is if you don't have a QB and your team sucks? It's nice to have bragging rights about having the best LT in the league but, in the end, it all comes down to wins & losses. JT has not added anything significant in the way of wins. If they were running the ball 90% of the time (to the left side) and the Browns were 10-6 or 11-5, making the playoffs, then I say "sure, your argument is valid."

For the most part, teams with franchise QB's (GB, PITT, NE, etc) don't have elite LT's. Hell, NE's O-Line, for the most part, is 3rd rounder's and later, along with some UDFA's.

But I get it, most CLE fans don't use logic because JT is a fan favorite and a pretty cool dude. People can be blinded by that stuff.

BR1986FB;1872830 wrote:This is the typical Cleveland fan mentality on him. Like Rob Schneider in "The Water Boy"....."we suck again! we're #32! we're #32! but at least we have bragging rights about having the best LT in football! That's the ONE thing we have going for us as fans"

JT is a luxury, not a necessity. I'm critical of his run blocking but I can see he's an exceptional pass blocker. But what has he REALLY done for the team in wins and losses? Nothing. Great player but I'd trade him, and his whole previous HOF career, for a franchise QB that WOULD have an impact on wins over that time frame.

Sure, HOF LT's aren't easy to find. Serviceable LT's, who can do the job, are not hard to find. Finding that franchise QB, who impacts games, is like finding a purple squirrel.

Not really. We would trade him and then just create another hole (of many). We would have to replace him and who would that replacement be? One of those shitty spread tackles coming out of college?

Joe’s below average is better than 90% of the league. It would be idiotic to create another gaping hole for no reason. The browns have and had plenty of picks. They need to learn how to make the most of them.


Also, he has consistently been rated a top run blocker his entire career. I’m not sure why you keep harping on that, because making him out to be an average run blocker is simply dishonest.

BR1986FB;1872830 wrote:This is the typical Cleveland fan mentality on him. Like Rob Schneider in "The Water Boy"....."we suck again! we're #32! we're #32! but at least we have bragging rights about having the best LT in football! That's the ONE thing we have going for us as fans"

JT is a luxury, not a necessity. I'm critical of his run blocking but I can see he's an exceptional pass blocker. But what has he REALLY done for the team in wins and losses? Nothing. Great player but I'd trade him, and his whole previous HOF career, for a franchise QB that WOULD have an impact on wins over that time frame.

Sure, HOF LT's aren't easy to find. Serviceable LT's, who can do the job, are not hard to find. Finding that franchise QB, who impacts games, is like finding a purple squirrel.

I don't even know where to start with this dumbass post so I'll just leave it.

also, that waterboy quote was terrible.