Con_Alma;1695634 wrote:We have the highest level of total dollars spent in this State no matter what that amount is per student. The State continues to increase the amount it provides for education.

the rate per student has dropped precipitously and as the article says that is the number one reason tuition is up

Con_Alma;1695643 wrote:If you believe the States are putting less into the system, which isn't true in total dollars, where do you see them getting an additional $20 Billion from to provide free educational services?

intergovernmental revenue

Belly35;1695476 wrote:How about adding additional year to high school. Those wanting to be serious about getting advanced education can take freshman college classes, those wanting to take less geared classes community college can get their first year and those who choose to skill type education truck drive, cook, mechanist, beauty school drop out as example can get a little training, and those who choose to not attend .....any additional high school extra year shot on sight.

This is available to Canadians. If they need to increase their scores, pick up a few more classes, redo any testing, they are able to take a 5th year of high school. It's a popular thing. Sometimes, they can even just take an extra semester instead of the whole year. Not a bad option.

In regards to the PSEO, it is somewhat available. This "free" community college is not going to benefit the same types of people that the "somewhat" available PSEO option is benefiting. The poor, needy, no-home kids aren't doing PSEO (for the most part). The same would not take advantage of the "free" community college option. Those that do PSEO are the ones that are able to do it, encouraged to do it, academically can do it, etc. It's the ones that want to get ahead in their academic endeavors. There are loads of areas all across the country that have ZERO access to any higher education locally (what is locally -- well, maybe +/-10 minutes away). In the 4 states I've lived in, in the past 8 years, only one town or city (that I resided) had a community college within 20 minutes. That's including here in Kansas where community colleges are littered across the state.

"Free" community college doesn't benefit anyone if they can't drive themselves, use public transportation, or easily access the institutions. The people that need the "free" can't use it like it could be used. There are numerous options out there already for higher education opportunities and they still don't seek them.

If it were up to me, instead of funding community colleges (which are a burden to tax-payers and really frustrate the student when it comes to transferring), all of higher education needs to be affordable. More 4-year AND 2-year schools are accessible than just 2-year schools. Allow students to go to those 4-year schools too. Why limit this? Look at what Germany just did with their higher education system...if it's affordable, more will partake. Doesn't have to be free.

isadore;1695657 wrote:the rate per student has dropped precipitously and as the article says that is the number one reason tuition is up

I understand that. I also understand that the State is putting more money in than ever and adding a requirement in the billions to fund community college will force them to take from another area...possible another are of education.

isadore;1695660 wrote:intergovernmental revenue

Which government department? If the Fed is already paying $60 billion over 10 years where will the other $20 billion come from?

OSH;1696214 wrote:This is available to Canadians. If they need to increase their scores, pick up a few more classes, redo any testing, they are able to take a 5th year of high school. It's a popular thing. Sometimes, they can even just take an extra semester instead of the whole year. Not a bad option.

In regards to the PSEO, it is somewhat available. This "free" community college is not going to benefit the same types of people that the "somewhat" available PSEO option is benefiting. The poor, needy, no-home kids aren't doing PSEO (for the most part). The same would not take advantage of the "free" community college option. Those that do PSEO are the ones that are able to do it, encouraged to do it, academically can do it, etc. It's the ones that want to get ahead in their academic endeavors. There are loads of areas all across the country that have ZERO access to any higher education locally (what is locally -- well, maybe +/-10 minutes away). In the 4 states I've lived in, in the past 8 years, only one town or city (that I resided) had a community college within 20 minutes. That's including here in Kansas where community colleges are littered across the state.

"Free" community college doesn't benefit anyone if they can't drive themselves, use public transportation, or easily access the institutions. The people that need the "free" can't use it like it could be used. There are numerous options out there already for higher education opportunities and they still don't seek them.

If it were up to me, instead of funding community colleges (which are a burden to tax-payers and really frustrate the student when it comes to transferring), all of higher education needs to be affordable. More 4-year AND 2-year schools are accessible than just 2-year schools. Allow students to go to those 4-year schools too. Why limit this? Look at what Germany just did with their higher education system...if it's affordable, more will partake. Doesn't have to be free.

I was thinking about PSEO when I read his Belly's post, too. Awesome opportunity if you can take advantage of it. I messed around with it in high school and took a few classes. It can be 100x more useful than your typical senior year of high school.
I bolded the part of your post I agree with most. I'm thinking about getting a second Bachelor's or Masters and it's so ridiculous. I really want to go to Physician's Assistant school, but it's $60,000 easily. Not to mention it's so intensive you cannot work full time while doing it.

Con_Alma;1696222 wrote:I understand that. I also understand that the State is putting more money in than ever and adding a requirement in the billions to fund community college will force them to take from another area...possible another are of education.

gosh a ruddies as unemployment declines there should be a natural increase in government revenue in the state and national government that rely so heavily on income taxes

Con_Alma;1696223 wrote:Which government department? If the Fed is already paying $60 billion over 10 years where will the other $20 billion come from?

increased funds from income tax

isadore;1696478 wrote:gosh a ruddies as unemployment declines there should be a natural increase in government revenue in the state and national government that rely so heavily on income taxes

Why will unemployment decline?

isadore;1696479 wrote:increased funds from income tax

Tha was my guess. I don'nt know where else they would get the funds. I am not in favor of this as I expressed earlier.

I do, however, agree with you that we won't see this proposal come to fruition based on the current legislative body not likely to put it through.

Al Bundy;1696481 wrote:Why will unemployment decline?

since it has declined income tax revenue rises.

Con_Alma;1696505 wrote:Tha was my guess. I don'nt know where else they would get the funds. I am not in favor of this as I expressed earlier.

I do, however, agree with you that we won't see this proposal come to fruition based on the current legislative body not likely to put it through.

under the best of electoral conditions, the earliest possible serious consideration would be after a Democratic sweep in the election of 2016.

it happened in 2008

isadore;1696513 wrote:under the best of electoral conditions, the earliest possible serious consideration would be after a Democratic sweep in the election of 2016.

Yeah, that worked out really, really well for us in 2008. Fortunately stupid American gave the House back to the Repubs in 2008 so Obama didn't drive the car further into the ditch.

Con_Alma;1696505 wrote: I do, however, agree with you that we won't see this proposal come to fruition based on the current legislative body not likely to put it through.

I think isadore might be exhibit A for how this is flushing money down the toilet.

Although an interesting theory I saw was this steers the stupid away from wasting a ton of money going after a four year degree, and also steers people toward it to defray the full cost of a 4-yr degree.

The theory goes the lower demand would cause many colleges to make their tuitions more affordable. The more likely scenario is they just don't accept transfer credits and the shittier colleges closer their doors (not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're a mediocre student hoping to earn a mediocre degree).

FREE MY ASS .... let me educate some people
THERE IS NOTHING FREE IN THIS WORLD AT SOME POINT WHAT WAS FREE NOW WILL COST YOU
.... FREE IS ANOTHER WORD FOR IN THE LONG RUN A SCAM

When those who claim to be educated use the word “Free” just provided proof of stupidity.

Fifth year to high school for those who want additional advanced college education, technical classes for those wanting a skill set type education and vocational education start for those seeking operation performance careers…

Supported by additional penny tax per $100.00 on all Federal, State and Local Government employees pay checks and a penny tax per $1000.00 for Union Members pay checks.

gut;1696537 wrote:Yeah, that worked out really, really well for us in 2008. Fortunately stupid American gave the House back to the Repubs in 2008 so Obama didn't drive the car further into the ditch.

gosh a ruddies stupid Americans have given power to Louis Gohmert, Ted Cruz and the man from the Klan, Steve Scalise.

Belly35;1696661 wrote:FREE MY ASS .... let me educate some people
THERE IS NOTHING FREE IN THIS WORLD AT SOME POINT WHAT WAS FREE NOW WILL COST YOU
.... FREE IS ANOTHER WORD FOR IN THE LONG RUN A SCAM

When those who claim to be educated use the word “Free” just provided proof of stupidity.

Fifth year to high school for those who want additional advanced college education, technical classes for those wanting a skill set type education and vocational education start for those seeking operation performance careers…

Supported by additional penny tax per $100.00 on all Federal, State and Local Government employees pay checks and a penny tax per $1000.00 for Union Members pay checks.

another contribution from the "I got mine" club.

isadore;1696803 wrote:another contribution from the "I PAID for mine" club.

FIFY

isadore;1696803 wrote:another contribution from the "I got mine" club.

. No fucking skin in the game so you don't care what it cost others.... Entitlement mentality mofo

Belly35;1696830 wrote:. No fucking skin in the game so you don't care what it cost others.... Entitlement mentality mofo

gosh a ruddies, I guess that is all you can expect from one of the founding members of the "I got mine, screw you" club. The membership is so self centered and selfish that they think that they are only people in our (not just their) country who pay taxes to support institution that "promote the general welfare" of the American people.

gut;1696538 wrote:I think isadore might be exhibit A for how this is flushing money down the toilet.

Although an interesting theory I saw was this steers the stupid away from wasting a ton of money going after a four year degree, and also steers people toward it to defray the full cost of a 4-yr degree.

The theory goes the lower demand would cause many colleges to make their tuitions more affordable. The more likely scenario is they just don't accept transfer credits and the shittier colleges closer their doors (not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're a mediocre student hoping to earn a mediocre degree).

That's an interesting thought. This could impact 4 year schools and there recourse could easily be not accepting any transfer credits. We'd have a lot of Associate degree people running around with no jobs paid for by tax payers.

isadore;1696835 wrote:gosh a ruddies, I guess that is all you can expect from one of the founding members of the "I got mine, screw you" club. The membership is so self centered and selfish that they think that they are only people in our (not just their) country who pay taxes to support institution that "promote the general welfare" of the American people.

I belong to the "I earned mine" club.

I don't even know how you can argue with a guy that starts a sentence with "gosh a ruddies".

Read the piece in the Wall St. Journal this past Monday on this topic ............ all you need to know.


End of story.