Ytowngirlinfla;1696980 wrote:I don't even know how you can argue with a guy that starts a sentence with "gosh a ruddies".

It's more arguing with the mentality many on the left share.

Pure entitlement. Money is and has been available. A college degree is supposed to pay for itself (and it does, if you study hard and make good choices) - there is no need for anyone other than the degree holder to pay that cost. But what a shocker - a large group of people is looking for a handout.

I mean, how is it that a very real issue in runaway tuition costs has morphed into a "we need to provide free college"? When gas prices got high, no one said "hey, we should give people free gas money".

Ytowngirlinfla;1696980 wrote:I don't even know how you can argue with a guy that starts a sentence with "gosh a ruddies".

That what the community centers directors, union hall bosses and racist organizer preach and just like trained organ grinder monkey Isadore just repeat the same, repetitive orate manner.

gut;1696987 wrote:It's more arguing with the mentality many on the left share.

Pure entitlement. Money is and has been available. A college degree is supposed to pay for itself (and it does, if you study hard and make good choices) - there is no need for anyone other than the degree holder to pay that cost. But what a shocker - a large group of people is looking for a handout.

Seriously. Haven't people played the game of Life?

WebFire;1696932 wrote:I belong to the "I earned mine" club.

so you will deny the resource that would give opportunity to millions in our increasingly stratified society.

isadore;1697109 wrote:so you will deny the resource that would give opportunity to millions in our increasingly stratified society.

Nope, they can earn it now.

Belly35;1696989 wrote:That what the community centers directors, union hall bosses and racist organizer preach and just like trained organ grinder monkey Isadore just repeat the same, repetitive orate manner.

Gosh a ruddies I don't think organ grinder monkeys can repeat the same orate manner.

WebFire;1697136 wrote:Nope, they can earn it now.

Gosh a ruddies, America has the most stratified society with the least amount of social mobility of the major western industrialized nations. This program would be a small step to breaking down that unjust system. It is no surprise it would be opposed by the selfish and greedy of the "I got mine" school of thought.

Might not be a bad idea as it could get more kids doing 2+2. The Owens Community College route for instance here in NW Ohio has became much less popular especially since University of Toledo allows anyone with a pulse in. Has to be honestly the easiest public school in Ohio to get into, I believe the acceptance rate is actually 98%

Upward mobility is not a problem for smart people. Again, you can't fix stupid.

It is just a natural, logical extension of free primary school, free secondary school, and free college.....

gut;1697181 wrote:Upward mobility is not a problem for smart people. Again, you can't fix stupid.

stratified societies with little or no opportunity have frustrated upward mobility of the deserving throughout world history. present day America is one of those societies.

Classyposter58;1697173 wrote:Might not be a bad idea as it could get more kids doing 2+2. The Owens Community College route for instance here in NW Ohio has became much less popular especially since University of Toledo allows anyone with a pulse in. Has to be honestly the easiest public school in Ohio to get into, I believe the acceptance rate is actually 98%

BGSU, Kent State, and Youngstown State probably would argue that... :RpS_razz:

gut;1697181 wrote:Upward mobility is not a problem for smart people. Again, you can't fix stupid.

If you're in Ohio and you make it to the RNC convention in Cleveland you should try to get this in the Official Republican Party platform in 2016 :laugh:.

BoatShoes;1697954 wrote:If you're in Ohio and you make it to the RNC convention in Cleveland you should try to get this in the Official Republican Party platform in 2016 :laugh:.

Yes, what a horrible shame to have a little honesty in politics.

gut;1698088 wrote:Yes, what a horrible shame to have a little honesty in politics.

The problem is honesty does not always get you votes. What a shame.

isadore;1697145 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, America has the most stratified society with the least amount of social mobility of the major western industrialized nations. This program would be a small step to breaking down that unjust system. It is no surprise it would be opposed by the selfish and greedy of the "I got mine" school of thought.

Tragic........ another mind wasted.

Anyhow, 6 years of obama has produced a significant decline in wages. The last thing the middle class can afford are falling wages, yet that is what obama has delivered. So suddenly, after six years of disastrous policy which has directly harmed the middle class, he is ordering up more of the same as though it will somehow help now. What productive middle class member of society would double down again with this marxist and his assault on the economy? Only fools or fellow marxists are now marching with this activist.

QuakerOats;1698510 wrote:Tragic........ another mind wasted.

Anyhow, 6 years of obama has produced a significant decline in wages. The last thing the middle class can afford are falling wages, yet that is what obama has delivered. So suddenly, after six years of disastrous policy which has directly harmed the middle class, he is ordering up more of the same as though it will somehow help now. What productive middle class member of society would double down again with this marxist and his assault on the economy? Only fools or fellow marxists are now marching with this activist.

gosh a ruddies your party supported deregulation that produced the greatest economic decline since the Great Depression (also caused by Republican policies), you undermine unions, the most important defenders of decent wages for workers, you oppose raise minimum wage so the poor remain poor and then you disingenuously attack Obama for keeping incomes down. And now to further cement the economic stratification of America you oppose the guarantee of post secondary education.

If obama and his BIG government merely got out of the way of all facets of our lives then 4-year colleges would be affordable for all, however due to his liberal policies and his BIG government, the poorer among us will be relegated to poor quality 2-year schools, while the more affluent will be the only ones making it through the 4 year schools. The policies of obama and BIG government create the problem (as always), then obama and BIG government say they have the solutions, which is more BIG government.

Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.


Change we can believe in ...

isadore;1698880 wrote:gosh a ruddies your party supported deregulation that produced the greatest economic decline since the Great Depression (also caused by Republican policies), you undermine unions, the most important defenders of decent wages for workers, you oppose raise minimum wage so the poor remain poor and then you disingenuously attack Obama for keeping incomes down. And now to further cement the economic stratification of America you oppose the guarantee of post secondary education.

Obama is attacking the middle class again by trying to tax 529 plans. http://www.wsj.com/articles/push-to-tax-529-plans-stokes-debate-over-income-student-aid-1421958694

Tax the people who actually plan for college, and give it free to those that don't.

QuakerOats;1698985 wrote:If obama and his BIG government merely got out of the way of all facets of our lives then 4-year colleges would be affordable for all, however due to his liberal policies and his BIG government, the poorer among us will be relegated to poor quality 2-year schools, while the more affluent will be the only ones making it through the 4 year schools. The policies of obama and BIG government create the problem (as always), then obama and BIG government say they have the solutions, which is more BIG government.

Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.


Change we can believe in ...

Gosh a ruddies, if we could only go back to the time to the halcyon days of no government involvement in post secondary education. A time when that advanced learning was only available to a small, usually rich elite. The time that folks of your ilk would love to see return.

Has anyone even thought of the dismal success rate of a lot of community colleges? I worked at Columbus State and for most of the students it was just another place for social interaction and to delay growing up. Make it free and it will get much worse. Remember, there are no truant officers in college. If students have no skin in the game what would prompt the less ambitious to actually attend class? How about this stat: The graduation rate at Columbus State Community College is very low - 14%. Approximately 13% of the school's undergraduate students transfer to other colleges.

WebFire;1699050 wrote:Tax the people who actually plan for college, and give it free to those that don't.

Gosh a ruddies, give to those that have and screw those in need.
But experts said 529 plans, which are used by seven million families and hold $217 billion, disproportionately benefit the most affluent families, which can afford to save. More than 12 million accounts are in circulation, according to Strategic Insight, an investment consultant that tracks the industry. If more affluent families can afford to start saving early and often, the compounding over time enables them to avoid paying more taxes, especially those in higher tax brackets.
“They primarily provide a subsidy to people who would save in other forms anyway,” said Sandy Baum, a senior fellow at the Urban Institute.
Even if many middle-income families save in 529 plans, an administration official, referring to the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances, said that more than 70 percent of the account balances for 529 plans and another option known as Coverdell Education Savings Accounts are held by families with incomes over $200,000. (Those figures also include health savings accounts, but still provide a reasonable best estimate, the administration said.)
A report from the Government Accountability Office found that a small percentage of families use 529 plans and Coverdell accounts. And those that do use them have a median income that is three times the median income of families without the accounts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/23/your-money/obamas-proposed-changes-to-529-college-savings-plans-would-reduce-benefits.html?_r=0

EW1984;1699070 wrote:Has anyone even thought of the dismal success rate of a lot of community colleges? I worked at Columbus State and for most of the students it was just another place for social interaction and to delay growing up. Make it free and it will get much worse. Remember, there are no truant officers in college. If students have no skin in the game what would prompt the less ambitious to actually attend class? How about this stat: The graduation rate at Columbus State Community College is very low - 14%. Approximately 13% of the school's undergraduate students transfer to other colleges.

Because minorities figured out they could get free college because of the color of their skin but not actually having to attend to get the money. They show up for day 1 of classes, get their tuition check, cash it, and then never go to class. Rinse and repeat year after year.

I would support free community college with the following strings attached:

String #1: If you accept free money, you must have perfect attendance. If you miss a class, you must have a emergency backed by a doctor's note or a death in the family(notified in advance to the professor in writing).

String #2: You must at minimum maintain a 3.0 GPA with no more than 1 semester below that average.

If you fail to meet both string #1 and string #2, you must pay back all tuition + a 100% tuition penalty within 10 years. This comes directly out of any future earnings and if you do not work, you can go to jail for 3 years for fraud instead of paying back the tuition. You are also stripped of your right to vote for life as you are nothing more than a worthless free loader and deserve nothing.