Churches Paying Taxes

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Devils Advocate

Brudda o da bomber

4,539 posts
Feb 27, 2014 3:25 PM
sigh....
Feb 27, 2014 3:25pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Feb 27, 2014 3:35 PM
OSH;1585370 wrote:Which could also mean that after 12 months then they donate the money...
And Exxon Mobile, after every quarter, decides to donate money to its shareholders for supporting the noble cause of delivering oil at the market clearing rate so people can get to work on time.

: thumbup:
Feb 27, 2014 3:35pm
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sleeper

Legend

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Feb 27, 2014 3:37 PM
OSH;1585371 wrote:Nothing like biblical inaccuracies in memes to prove a point...
It's all made up anyway.
Feb 27, 2014 3:37pm
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Dr Winston O'Boogie

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Feb 27, 2014 3:50 PM
Evangelical Atheism is for poor people and Africanoids. :RpS_flapper:
Feb 27, 2014 3:50pm
W

WebFire

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14,779 posts
Feb 27, 2014 4:41 PM
OSH;1585370 wrote:Which could also mean that after 12 months then they donate the money...
Could is the key word there.
Feb 27, 2014 4:41pm
OSH's avatar

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

4,145 posts
Feb 27, 2014 5:12 PM
WebFire;1585394 wrote:Could is the key word there.
Correct. But that's no different than speculating that a profit every month means they are a for-profit entity.

Nonprofits can still account for money for future operating expenses. So, having more money than expenses doesn't really mean a whole lot.
Feb 27, 2014 5:12pm
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dontcare

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Feb 27, 2014 9:21 PM
Feb 27, 2014 9:21pm
JD413's avatar

JD413

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Feb 27, 2014 9:52 PM
^ Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Bible states that the lust for money is the root of all evil.

And I could be wrong, because in my opinion, religion is for poor people.
Feb 27, 2014 9:52pm
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Ironman92

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Feb 27, 2014 10:16 PM
Feb 27, 2014 10:16pm
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WebFire

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Feb 27, 2014 10:33 PM
OSH;1585400 wrote:Correct. But that's no different than speculating that a profit every month means they are a for-profit entity.

Nonprofits can still account for money for future operating expenses. So, having more money than expenses doesn't really mean a whole lot.
They can do pretty much whatever they want with the money and claim it as expense. Most business do the same, but in business it's called investing in the business, and they still have to pay tax on it.

I'm not really arguing for taxing churches, but a lot of churches do operate for-profit in reality, but they can get away with it.
Feb 27, 2014 10:33pm
Apple's avatar

Apple

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Feb 27, 2014 11:07 PM
It wouldn't surprise me that at some point soon average Americans will rise up and say something to the notion that they are taxed enough already and the government needs to GTFO.
Feb 27, 2014 11:07pm
OSH's avatar

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

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Feb 28, 2014 1:04 AM
WebFire;1585475 wrote:I'm not really arguing for taxing churches, but a lot of churches do operate for-profit in reality, but they can get away with it.
And my whole argument is that "a lot" of nonprofits operate for-profit.

Treat every one of them the same. Allow them to do service, or treat them like a business. Whatever it is, don't discriminate.
Feb 28, 2014 1:04am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Feb 28, 2014 3:55 AM
As I mentioned on the politics board, the money has already been taxed. Their income comes largely from donations that is derived from taxed income. Like any 501(c)(3) organization. We don't donate to churches, but do to the SPCA. The CEO of the our target makes about $100,000/year, and as an employee is responsible for personal income tax, but we do not expect our POST-TAX charity donations to generally be taxed again.
Feb 28, 2014 3:55am
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HitsRus

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Feb 28, 2014 7:56 AM
But, for what it's worth, I would rather keep churches free from taxation. They already get too involved in public policy as it is. If they were paying taxes they would be even worse
Boatshoes posted this on page one, and it is true. Most churches sidestep endorsing political candidates precisely for this reason, and taking away the tax free status opens up that door. If you believe truly in the seperation of church and state then you must accept it in entirety not just if it convienient.
Feb 28, 2014 7:56am
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WebFire

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Feb 28, 2014 8:09 AM
OSH;1585494 wrote:And my whole argument is that "a lot" of nonprofits operate for-profit.

Treat every one of them the same. Allow them to do service, or treat them like a business. Whatever it is, don't discriminate.
I agree with that.
Feb 28, 2014 8:09am
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WebFire

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Feb 28, 2014 8:10 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585498 wrote:As I mentioned on the politics board, the money has already been taxed. Their income comes largely from donations that is derived from taxed income. Like any 501(c)(3) organization. We don't donate to churches, but do to the SPCA. The CEO of the our target makes about $100,000/year, and as an employee is responsible for personal income tax, but we do not expect our POST-TAX charity donations to generally be taxed again.
The money paid to all businesses has already been taxed too.
Feb 28, 2014 8:10am
J

jmog

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Feb 28, 2014 8:23 AM
HitsRus;1585524 wrote:Most churches sidestep endorsing political candidates precisely for this reason, and taking away the tax free status opens up that door. If you believe truly in the seperation of church and state then you must accept it in entirety not just if it convenient.
QFT, this should end the thread right there.
Feb 28, 2014 8:23am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Feb 28, 2014 10:29 AM
WebFire;1585531 wrote:The money paid to all businesses has already been taxed too.
And they provide a taxable service. Not charity. If I buy an egg mcmuffin at McDonald's I don't expect any revenue to not be taxed - it is a business. Charity is something we donate to out of the goodness of our hearts - when we donate to dog shelters we fully expect all money to go to the organization. Again, to the extent they have employees the employees must pay tax on their income. But I don't want the government to take another bite out of an apple that's already been bitten once.
Feb 28, 2014 10:29am
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WebFire

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Feb 28, 2014 11:44 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585594 wrote:And they provide a taxable service. Not charity. If I buy an egg mcmuffin at McDonald's I don't expect any revenue to not be taxed - it is a business. Charity is something we donate to out of the goodness of our hearts - when we donate to dog shelters we fully expect all money to go to the organization. Again, to the extent they have employees the employees must pay tax on their income. But I don't want the government to take another bite out of an apple that's already been bitten once.
I understand the definition of a charity.
Feb 28, 2014 11:44am
Devils Advocate's avatar

Devils Advocate

Brudda o da bomber

4,539 posts
Feb 28, 2014 11:52 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585594 wrote:. Charity is something we donate to out of the goodness of our hearts .
Then why would people deduct the "charity" from their taxes? Seems like the gubmint is getting double hosed.
Feb 28, 2014 11:52am
T

thavoice

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Feb 28, 2014 11:58 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585594 wrote:And they provide a taxable service. Not charity. If I buy an egg mcmuffin at McDonald's I don't expect any revenue to not be taxed - it is a business. Charity is something we donate to out of the goodness of our hearts - when we donate to dog shelters we fully expect all money to go to the organization. Again, to the extent they have employees the employees must pay tax on their income. But I don't want the government to take another bite out of an apple that's already been bitten once.
Exactly, and that is why I never write off my charital donations every year to The Human Fund.
Feb 28, 2014 11:58am
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 12:01 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585594 wrote:And they provide a taxable service. Not charity. If I buy an egg mcmuffin at McDonald's I don't expect any revenue to not be taxed - it is a business. Charity is something we donate to out of the goodness of our hearts - when we donate to dog shelters we fully expect all money to go to the organization. Again, to the extent they have employees the employees must pay tax on their income. But I don't want the government to take another bite out of an apple that's already been bitten once.
What about wages paid to the CEOs of churches? Since that money comes through donations that have already been taxed, should they have to pay taxes on their salary?

Churches are businesses that sell eternal salvation as their product and they need to be taxed according. Just because churches occassionally give money to poor people doesn't mean they should be exempt from paying taxes like every other business out there. Exxon Mobile donates millions of dollars each year for education, should they have to pay taxes?
Feb 28, 2014 12:01pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Feb 28, 2014 12:07 PM
I'm pretty sure any employee of a church, or any 501(c)(3) has to pay taxes on their income. I'm just very confused what on earth you think you are taxing? Most churches/charities don't have many assets. They have their property, but how do you value it? The idea that we could solve any type of fiscal problems by taxing these entities is so stupid, it as if people fell off the dumbass tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I'm my parents' church's lawyer - I know everything about them. They run their cemetery, which is their biggest expense, and they pay for utilities for their building. The insinuation that they are drowning in wealth is ridiculous.
Feb 28, 2014 12:07pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Feb 28, 2014 12:17 PM
Devils Advocate;1585641 wrote:Then why would people deduct the "charity" from their taxes? Seems like the gubmint is getting double hosed.
And what percentage of the population does this? Nearly half of Americans don't even pay federal income taxes so they aren't itemizing. How many people do you think posting here itemize deductions?
Feb 28, 2014 12:17pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 12:39 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;1585650 wrote:I'm pretty sure any employee of a church, or any 501(c)(3) has to pay taxes on their income. I'm just very confused what on earth you think you are taxing? Most churches/charities don't have many assets. They have their property, but how do you value it? The idea that we could solve any type of fiscal problems by taxing these entities is so stupid, it as if people fell off the dumbass tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I'm my parents' church's lawyer - I know everything about them. They run their cemetery, which is their biggest expense, and they pay for utilities for their building. The insinuation that they are drowning in wealth is ridiculous.
Stop calling sales "donations" and there you have it. Revenue minus expenses = profit. Tax the profit.
Feb 28, 2014 12:39pm