Churches Paying Taxes

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jmog

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6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 12:42 PM
sleeper;1585668 wrote:Stop calling sales "donations" and there you have it. Revenue minus expenses = profit. Tax the profit.
Do you consider all 501(c)(3)'s the same? Meaning tax them all or just hell bent on taxing churches only?
Feb 28, 2014 12:42pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 12:45 PM
sleeper;1585649 wrote:What about wages paid to the CEOs of churches? Since that money comes through donations that have already been taxed, should they have to pay taxes on their salary?

Churches are businesses that sell eternal salvation as their product and they need to be taxed according. Just because churches occassionally give money to poor people doesn't mean they should be exempt from paying taxes like every other business out there. Exxon Mobile donates millions of dollars each year for education, should they have to pay taxes?
Any employee of the church does pay taxes on their salary.

Answer this question sleeper, churches (most) stay out of politics in order to keep their 501(c)(3) status (there are laws against religious institutions becoming political and backing certain candidates, etc). If you want to tax them would you be "ok" with churches then being able to donate large sums of money to politicians and feeding money into PACs to push legislation?
Feb 28, 2014 12:45pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 1:09 PM
jmog;1585670 wrote:Do you consider all 501(c)(3)'s the same? Meaning tax them all or just hell bent on taxing churches only?
Taxing churches to balance the negative externality of deluding the masses and promoting ignorance.
Feb 28, 2014 1:09pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 1:09 PM
jmog;1585672 wrote:Any employee of the church does pay taxes on their salary.

Answer this question sleeper, churches (most) stay out of politics in order to keep their 501(c)(3) status (there are laws against religious institutions becoming political and backing certain candidates, etc). If you want to tax them would you be "ok" with churches then being able to donate large sums of money to politicians and feeding money into PACs to push legislation?
Yes. It would certainly make life easier to vote against any candidate that the church supports.
Feb 28, 2014 1:09pm
Devils Advocate's avatar

Devils Advocate

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4,539 posts
Feb 28, 2014 1:32 PM
OSH;1585371 wrote:Nothing like biblical inaccuracies in memes to prove a point...
Biblical and inaccuracies in the same sentence proves my point exactly.

Ironic is ironic
Feb 28, 2014 1:32pm
M

MontyBrunswick

Feb 28, 2014 1:32 PM
They should just tax any entity (person/business) the same. Remove the possibility of wiggle room (and thus, loopholes)
Feb 28, 2014 1:32pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Feb 28, 2014 1:55 PM
jmog;1585672 wrote:Any employee of the church does pay taxes on their salary.

Answer this question sleeper, churches (most) stay out of politics in order to keep their 501(c)(3) status (there are laws against religious institutions becoming political and backing certain candidates, etc). If you want to tax them would you be "ok" with churches then being able to donate large sums of money to politicians and feeding money into PACs to push legislation?
Well, I don't the businesses should be doing it, so that's an easy one to answer.
Feb 28, 2014 1:55pm
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TedSheckler

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Feb 28, 2014 2:00 PM
thavoice;1585644 wrote:Exactly, and that is why I never write off my charital donations every year to The Human Fund.
Reps for the Seinfeld reference.
Feb 28, 2014 2:00pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:17 PM
sleeper;1585680 wrote:Taxing churches to balance the negative externality of deluding the masses and promoting ignorance.
Seems to me you are trying to punish a category of organizations just because you don't believe in what they do.

Sounds pretty small minded of you.
Feb 28, 2014 2:17pm
J

jmog

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6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:24 PM
sleeper;1585680 wrote:Taxing churches to balance the negative externality of deluding the masses and promoting ignorance.
What about the negative externality of deluding the masses and promoting ignorance that comes from far left wing crazy 501(c)(3)s like ASPCA, Greenspeace, Sierra Club, etc. By your own logic shouldn't they be paying taxes then too?
Feb 28, 2014 2:24pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:25 PM
wkfan;1585708 wrote:Seems to me you are trying to punish a category of organizations just because you don't believe in what they do.

Sounds pretty small minded of you.
Not punishing; just trying to have them play by the same rules as other businesses.
Feb 28, 2014 2:25pm
J

jmog

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6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:25 PM
sleeper;1585682 wrote:Yes. It would certainly make life easier to vote against any candidate that the church supports.
So since most churches would probably be supporting conservative/republican candidates does that mean you will be an Obama/liberal supporter then?

Sucks when you contradict yourself doesn't it?
Feb 28, 2014 2:25pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:26 PM
jmog;1585711 wrote:What about the negative externality of deluding the masses and promoting ignorance that comes from far left wing crazy 501(c)(3)s like ASPCA, Greenspeace, Sierra Club, etc. By your own logic shouldn't they be paying taxes then too?
Wouldn't even scratch the surface of the damage done by religious organizations.
Feb 28, 2014 2:26pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:26 PM
jmog;1585713 wrote:So since most churches would probably be supporting conservative/republican candidates does that mean you will be an Obama/liberal supporter then?

Sucks when you contradict yourself doesn't it?
Called the libertarian party bro.
Feb 28, 2014 2:26pm
J

jmog

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Feb 28, 2014 2:28 PM
sleeper;1585714 wrote:Wouldn't even scratch the surface of the damage done by religious organizations.
So both (Greenspeace and churches) are "spreading ignorance" by sleeper logic, but since in sleeper's opinion one has done more damage it should be taxed and the other should not?

You honestly can't believe your own crap that you spew can you?
Feb 28, 2014 2:28pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:30 PM
sleeper;1585716 wrote:Called the libertarian party bro.
You do know that many churches would support same libertarian right? Most church people I know are fed up with both parties and want the government out of their lives completely, sounds libertarian to me.

Guess you'll have to find another party then huh sleeper?

You would HATE to admit that politically you are actually very close to religious "idiots" huh?

Most Christians I know would vote libertarian if they really had a shot, instead go republican as the lesser of 2 evils.
Feb 28, 2014 2:30pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:30 PM
sleeper;1585712 wrote:Not punishing; just trying to have them play by the same rules as other businesses.
Those that are businesses should play by the same rules. Unfortunately, at least for your revengeful motives, not all churches are businesses but are very legitimately charities and should be treated as such.
Feb 28, 2014 2:30pm
M

MontyBrunswick

Feb 28, 2014 2:33 PM
wkfan;1585721 wrote:Unfortunately, at least for your revengeful motives, not all churches are businesses but are very legitimately charities and should be treated as such.
Like Westboro Baptist?
Feb 28, 2014 2:33pm
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ernest_t_bass

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Feb 28, 2014 2:34 PM
dlazz;1585722 wrote:Like Westboro Baptist?
Like every muslim is a terrorist?
Feb 28, 2014 2:34pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

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Feb 28, 2014 2:35 PM
dlazz;1585722 wrote:Like Westboro Baptist?
As I stated, those that are businesses should be treated as such. I do not view Westboro Baptist as a charity, although under the law they may be.....I just don't know enough about them to know for sure.

However, I do not consider them to be a Church in the way that I view what a Church is.
Feb 28, 2014 2:35pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:36 PM
jmog;1585718 wrote:So both (Greenspeace and churches) are "spreading ignorance" by sleeper logic, but since in sleeper's opinion one has done more damage it should be taxed and the other should not?

You honestly can't believe your own crap that you spew can you?
When Greenpace collectively brings in billions of dollars a year and pays zero taxes on their profits; then you may have a point.
Feb 28, 2014 2:36pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:37 PM
wkfan;1585721 wrote:Those that are businesses should play by the same rules. Unfortunately, at least for your revengeful motives, not all churches are businesses but are very legitimately charities and should be treated as such.
Is Exxon Mobile a charity? Can we call dividends "donations" and profits "surplus" or can we just stop playing games and tax churches like every other profit making scheme out there?
Feb 28, 2014 2:37pm
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sleeper

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Feb 28, 2014 2:38 PM
jmog;1585719 wrote:You do know that many churches would support same libertarian right? Most church people I know are fed up with both parties and want the government out of their lives completely, sounds libertarian to me.

Guess you'll have to find another party then huh sleeper?

You would HATE to admit that politically you are actually very close to religious "idiots" huh?

Most Christians I know would vote libertarian if they really had a shot, instead go republican as the lesser of 2 evils.
You've only had sex with one woman. : thumbup:
Feb 28, 2014 2:38pm
W

wkfan

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Feb 28, 2014 2:39 PM
sleeper;1585726 wrote:Is Exxon Mobile a charity? Can we call dividends "donations" and profits "surplus" or can we just stop playing games and tax churches like every other profit making scheme out there?
When you can't back up your point, you just re-state it?

I see your game.
Feb 28, 2014 2:39pm
J

jmog

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6,567 posts
Feb 28, 2014 2:39 PM
dlazz;1585722 wrote:Like Westboro Baptist?
Nice straw man fallacy...any others you want to throw out there? Of course that could fall under anecdotal fallacy, sharpshooter fallacy, composition/division fallacy, etc.

Idea is your argument is wrong asserting 1 bad apple means they all are.
Feb 28, 2014 2:39pm