ccrunner609 wrote:

beenthere/donethat wrote:earned a BAND letter participating in band

THere the key to your argument. You "participated". You dont get a Varsity letter in sports for making the team. You have to actually on the court or field or the top spot.

Marching in the band isnt hard to do. Everyone that walks in gets to do it unlike a kid on the basketball, baseball, track teams.

Letters should be for sports and sports only. Maybe if the band director benched a kid because he didnt get something right.

I dont ever agree with ccrunner on anything, quite frankly I think he is a retard but he is 100% correct on this.

Who gives a fuck? Its a cheap leather jacket with carpet sewn to it that is only cool to wear in high school.

Real easy to see who the clowns are in this argument.

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I'm pretty sure no one made fun of me with perfect attendance in HS or College. I can't remember the last time I missed a day of work, I'm the boss, I can't miss. Do I get sick, sure, but I'm not a pussy about it. My father, may he burn in hell, was a DI in the military. You either got your ass moving or you found a boot up your ass.
By the way, GPAs don't mean shit in HS or College.....
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i'm pretty sure high school and college GPA's do matter.....high school GPA determines where you go to college, better the college usually leads to a better job, college GPA determines what grad school you can get into if you can get in at all, making it through grad school gets you a better job...sure an average GPA in HS and college can make you a decent living, but the ones rakin in the big $$ made it through college and grad school with good grades

I am a living testament that GPAs don't mean shit. Typical UA fag response right there. You sound like a god damn autobot, clown.

One exception does not make the rule, fool.

We are all living proof that you are a jackass.


I'm just kidding, I just felt like being mean. Sorry

ohiobucks1 wrote: One exception does not make the rule, fool.

this

Fin.

Keebler wrote: I just saw someone walk into my work wearing a letter jacket for choir. Are you fucking serious? Next thing the AV and Chess Clubs will have one. This coming from someone who never had one nor wanted one. Seriously, everyone is going to have one before you know it.

why should letters only be allowed to be worn by "athletes" or do you forget every senior on the team will get a letter football? so are you saying that those who don't earn the letter their senior year not get a letter either then?

MANAZE wrote:

Keebler wrote: I just saw someone walk into my work wearing a letter jacket for choir. Are you fucking serious? Next thing the AV and Chess Clubs will have one. This coming from someone who never had one nor wanted one. Seriously, everyone is going to have one before you know it.

why should letters only be allowed to be worn by "athletes" or do you forget every senior on the team will get a letter football? so are you saying that those who don't earn the letter their senior year not get a letter either then?

If I read your questions correctly (hard to do). No and No.

MANAZE = BAND, CHOIR, QUIZ BOWL participant.

Yeah I am not really sure why this would bother someone so much...especially someone not even in HS anymore. I will never understand why average adults (not teachers, administrators or coaches) think it's their job to decide what high school kids should and shouldn't do or should and shouldn't get. Why should it matter if you think band members get a letter or whether or not there should be cheerleaders? It shouldn't. High school sports and activities (and the jackets for that matter) are for the kids, not you.

Fab4Runner wrote: High school sports and activities (and the jackets for that matter) are for the kids, not you.

Shhh...don't tell them that.

Varsity letters are to be awarded in a varsity sport. At this time most people do not recognize choir, band, drama, av club, quiz bowl, etc as a sport. My daughter will graduate with 9-10 varsity letters in recognized varsity sports by the OHSAA. She will have an opportunity to play at the next level if she would like to.
She does not want a varsity jacket because she says it is not special, if anyone can buy one and wear one then it is no longer important.
At our school anyone can buy the varsity jacket with out any requirements. All you have to do is pay the money. I have seen jackets with all of the above on the back and many others, including several non athletic activities, some not even sponsored by our school.
I am not saying that activities should not be recognized. I am not saying that they should not be allowed to have a jacket signifying their participation or accomplishments.
But anyone who says that a VARSITY sport is the same as an activity such as band, choir, drama or the like does not understand, and most likely will never understand.
Are there kids that are in activities special and do thing that varsity athletes can not always do, yes they are. Are there varsity athletes that also participate in non athletic activities at a very high level, yes there is.
The whole thing boils down to that getting a varsity jacket in some schools is no more recognized as a special thing, and that bothers some people, including me.
Call me old school if you like, call me old fashioned, call me an old crumudgen I do not care. I just feel that some things need to stay the same, and to me and a lot of old timers like me, a varsity jacket should be special, not something that anyone with the money can buy and wear for any reason they feel like.

lhs7870 wrote: Varsity letters are to be awarded in a varsity sport. At this time most people do not recognize choir, band, drama, av club, quiz bowl, etc as a sport. My daughter will graduate with 9-10 varsity letters in recognized varsity sports by the OHSAA. She will have an opportunity to play at the next level if she would like to.
She does not want a varsity jacket because she says it is not special, if anyone can buy one and wear one then it is no longer important.
At our school anyone can buy the varsity jacket with out any requirements. All you have to do is pay the money. I have seen jackets with all of the above on the back and many others, including several non athletic activities, some not even sponsored by our school.
I am not saying that activities should not be recognized. I am not saying that they should not be allowed to have a jacket signifying their participation or accomplishments.
But anyone who says that a VARSITY sport is the same as an activity such as band, choir, drama or the like does not understand, and most likely will never understand.
Are there kids that are in activities special and do thing that varsity athletes can not always do, yes they are. Are there varsity athletes that also participate in non athletic activities at a very high level, yes there is.
The whole thing boils down to that getting a varsity jacket in some schools is no more recognized as a special thing, and that bothers some people, including me.
Call me old school if you like, call me old fashioned, call me an old crumudgen I do not care. I just feel that some things need to stay the same, and to me and a lot of old timers like me, a varsity jacket should be special, not something that anyone with the money can buy and wear for any reason they feel like.

I couldn't have said it any better myself. I mean this is coming from someone that never got a Varsity letter. I only played JV but yet was involved in National Honor Society, Yearbook, Quiz Bowl, Future Business Leaders of America, etc.... I didn't want a Varsity letter for those activities. Those are resume/college application fillers.

I never bought a varsity jacket because I wasn't good at anything. ^^ he can attest to this.

I have mine already as a freshman, I already lettered in something.

lhs just summed up what we've been trying to say for four pages. You're the man

lhs7870 wrote: Varsity letters are to be awarded in a varsity sport. At this time most people do not recognize choir, band, drama, av club, quiz bowl, etc as a sport. My daughter will graduate with 9-10 varsity letters in recognized varsity sports by the OHSAA. She will have an opportunity to play at the next level if she would like to.
She does not want a varsity jacket because she says it is not special, if anyone can buy one and wear one then it is no longer important.
At our school anyone can buy the varsity jacket with out any requirements. All you have to do is pay the money. I have seen jackets with all of the above on the back and many others, including several non athletic activities, some not even sponsored by our school.
I am not saying that activities should not be recognized. I am not saying that they should not be allowed to have a jacket signifying their participation or accomplishments.
But anyone who says that a VARSITY sport is the same as an activity such as band, choir, drama or the like does not understand, and most likely will never understand.
Are there kids that are in activities special and do thing that varsity athletes can not always do, yes they are. Are there varsity athletes that also participate in non athletic activities at a very high level, yes there is.
The whole thing boils down to that getting a varsity jacket in some schools is no more recognized as a special thing, and that bothers some people, including me.
Call me old school if you like, call me old fashioned, call me an old crumudgen I do not care. I just feel that some things need to stay the same, and to me and a lot of old timers like me, a varsity jacket should be special, not something that anyone with the money can buy and wear for any reason they feel like.

No one is arguing they are the same. If you give a trophy for baseball and a trophy for dance both received a trophy but they are not the same.

Your argument is implying that the person who received a trophy for baseball should refuse because it is not important now that someone for dance received a trophy.

Band and choir are different and they are not sports. They felt that the letter idea is a good idea and I am in agreement it is a very good idea.

What exactly is wrong about borrowing a successful reward system which a letter actually is and using it for other activities?

The varsity jackets I have seen have a "rocker" that designates what the letter is for. Band say band, choir, football, wrestling etc

There is no rule that only sports can monopolize a reward system it is ridiculous when broken down to what it really is.

j_crazy wrote: I got 5 letters floating around my moms house. No jacket to put them on.

I was of the belief that I wouldn't wear it much after school, so it wasn't worth the money to me, and my parents would NEVER pay for it.

I'm calling BS...what 5 sports could you have possibly lettered in?

BCSbunk wrote: No one is arguing they are the same. If you give a trophy for baseball and a trophy for dance both received a trophy but they are not the same.

Your argument is implying that the person who received a trophy for baseball should refuse because it is not important now that someone for dance received a trophy.

Band and choir are different and they are not sports. They felt that the letter idea is a good idea and I am in agreement it is a very good idea.

What exactly is wrong about borrowing a successful reward system which a letter actually is and using it for other activities?

The varsity jackets I have seen have a "rocker" that designates what the letter is for. Band say band, choir, football, wrestling etc

There is no rule that only sports can monopolize a reward system it is ridiculous when broken down to what it really is.

I haven't read this whole thread, but in your description, if someone in the band is wearing a varsity jacket but adding "band" to it, isn't that more like buying a trophy with a baseball player but making the plate say, "band"?

I wouldn't think that the letter is the biggest concern, it is the jacket. Most of the high schools in my area have the leather-arm design for varsity sports and a different jacket for other extra-curriculars. Most of the competitive activities can earn a letter.

The reward system is great and using it for multiple activities isn't a bad idea. But really, who would want to steal every detail of another organizations system and not make it their own in some way. Design your own jacket, that seems pretty simple and nobody would argue this either way.

It is kind of like how motorcycle gangs started wearing leather jackets with logos on the back a long time ago. Motorcycle gangs everywhere do the same thing and personalize it for their gang. You also have bicycle clubs who get matching windbreakers with their insignia, but those guys never said, "hey, we all ride on two wheels so we are going to wear leather jackets - but our logo is going to have a bicycle so everyone will know we are different".

enigmaax wrote:

BCSbunk wrote: No one is arguing they are the same. If you give a trophy for baseball and a trophy for dance both received a trophy but they are not the same.

Your argument is implying that the person who received a trophy for baseball should refuse because it is not important now that someone for dance received a trophy.

Band and choir are different and they are not sports. They felt that the letter idea is a good idea and I am in agreement it is a very good idea.

What exactly is wrong about borrowing a successful reward system which a letter actually is and using it for other activities?

The varsity jackets I have seen have a "rocker" that designates what the letter is for. Band say band, choir, football, wrestling etc

There is no rule that only sports can monopolize a reward system it is ridiculous when broken down to what it really is.

I haven't read this whole thread, but in your description, if someone in the band is wearing a varsity jacket but adding "band" to it, isn't that more like buying a trophy with a baseball player but making the plate say, "band"?

I wouldn't think that the letter is the biggest concern, it is the jacket. Most of the high schools in my area have the leather-arm design for varsity sports and a different jacket for other extra-curriculars. Most of the competitive activities can earn a letter.

The reward system is great and using it for multiple activities isn't a bad idea. But really, who would want to steal every detail of another organizations system and not make it their own in some way. Design your own jacket, that seems pretty simple and nobody would argue this either way.

No not at all. In fact his post was guilty of logical fallacy Appeal to tradition.

His argument is not sound I am showing an analogy using a trophy generic.

I can do the same with the varsity jacket without a letter it still functions correctly.

There is no sound logical argument against the band and choir having varsity jackets and/or letters. If there is I would like to see one.

So far I see emotional appeals and appeals to tradition both logical fallacy and terrible reasoning.

Why is it wrong to adopt a successful reward system that is not copywrited?

That above is what this is all about. Band and Choir have adopted a successful reward system.

If someone feels that is watering down the reward they are going to need to give a sound argument without appeals to tradtion and emotional appeals and I can really see none.

Giving a letter to someone in band is like giving anyone who works at a hospital an M.D. title. Just because they work there, they should get it. I'm sure we would all accept Dr. Janitor.

ccrunner609 wrote:

beenthere/donethat wrote:earned a BAND letter participating in band

THere the key to your argument. You "participated". You dont get a Varsity letter in sports for making the team. You have to actually on the court or field or the top spot.

Marching in the band isnt hard to do. Everyone that walks in gets to do it unlike a kid on the basketball, baseball, track teams.

Letters should be for sports and sports only. Maybe if the band director benched a kid because he didnt get something right.

You missed one of my later posts. I did say the band letter was EARNED. There were qualifications that had to be met, including voluntary competing and placing in contests, etc.

I realize at SOME schools a varsity jacket and varsity letters were for ATHLETIC extracurricular activities ONLY & people who attended these schools view jackets, letters, etc. being worn by non-athletic people in some way infringe on what they earned by playing a sport. I'm just not one of them and am thankful the school I attended was not either. Encouraging students to be successful in ALL HS endeavors is a way of life in our area. In high school, I proudly wore all letters I EARNED. As also mentioned in a later post, as an adult, I see that we were walking advertisements for our school.

Someone up the chain earlier said essentially the same thing...WHO CARES??? This is maybe one of the most assinine argument I've ever seen on the past / present huddles (and believe me there have been some real contenders for that title). The culture of the individual HS sets the tone for what is allowed or disallowed (or maybe more accurately...what is accepted ). Believe me if the jock community at the school in question didn't want choir / band members wearing letter jackets...they would take care of that business behind the scenes and its a done deal. But if they don't care why should some middle age DB like yourself Keebler?

Yeah, I'm all for a good old fashioned pointless argument every now and then.

But this is incredibly bad. haha, I can't even fathom how this would bother anyone, or make them think twice about it. At least anyone not in High School.

lol - it apparently bothered quite a few of the "jock community" on the huddle.