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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Jan 10, 2014 10:26am
THanks for proving my point. If you can't just name one player of the top of your head, then its a rare thing to happen. This wont' affect future OSU recruiting. Meyer will replace him with a proven quality coach. I hate seeing Vrabel go as much as anyone does. No question its a hit. But some of you are making this out to be some huge ordeal. Its not.HighRoller74;1565355 wrote: And if I had the time I'd work on a list of players but it really isn't worth my time, but if you think losing one of the best recruiters on the team, and one who was the lead recruiter for a couple of our targets left for this year, isn't that big of a deal you're crazy.
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LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jan 10, 2014 10:32am
Mike Vrabel was rated as the #1 rated recruiter in the B1G and #10 nationally. You are understating his importance by a lotcentralbucksfan;1565459 wrote:THanks for proving my point. If you can't just name one player of the top of your head, then its a rare thing to happen. This wont' affect future OSU recruiting. Meyer will replace him with a proven quality coach. I hate seeing Vrabel go as much as anyone does. No question its a hit. But some of you are making this out to be some huge ordeal. Its not.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Jan 10, 2014 10:37am
This.LJ;1565464 wrote:Mike Vrabel was rated as the #1 rated recruiter in the B1G and #10 nationally. You are understating his importance by a lot
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jan 10, 2014 10:37am
You're both right/wrong.
Important? Yes.
Replaceable? Yes.
Important? Yes.
Replaceable? Yes.
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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Jan 10, 2014 10:59am
There is a breakdown somewhere. Maybe he is a great recruiter and not good at developing the talent. The defense this year is the worst that I have seen in over 30 years of following the Bucks. Is it a talent issue (I think that is part of it, but you claim he is a great recruiter), or is it a coaching issue (I think that is part of it too).LJ;1565464 wrote:Mike Vrabel was rated as the #1 rated recruiter in the B1G and #10 nationally. You are understating his importance by a lot
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jan 10, 2014 11:00am
He coached the Dline the strongest part of the defense. Top 20 nationally in rush D and sacks.Al Bundy;1565476 wrote:There is a breakdown somewhere. Maybe he is a great recruiter and not good at developing the talent. The defense this year is the worst that I have seen in over 30 years of following the Bucks. Is it a talent issue (I think that is part of it, but you claim he is a great recruiter), or is it a coaching issue (I think that is part of it too).
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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Jan 10, 2014 11:13am
LJ;1565477 wrote:He coached the Dline the strongest part of the defense. Top 20 nationally in rush D and sacks.
Vrabel coached the Dline. Fickell was the DC and linebackers coach (the defense and linebackers both sucked this year). http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/1314_p1to14.pdf
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jan 10, 2014 11:18am
I know, we are talking about Vrabel, hence my comments about how good the Dline was.Al Bundy;1565480 wrote:Vrabel coached the Dline. Fickell was the DC and linebackers coach (the defense and linebackers both sucked this year). http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/1314_p1to14.pdf
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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Jan 10, 2014 11:26am
Sorry. I didn't mean to post that in this forum.LJ;1565483 wrote:I know, we are talking about Vrabel, hence my comments about how good the Dline was.
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Jan 10, 2014 11:56am
Ok. I guess we won't know how "badly" this will hurt OSU for a year or so. Bottom line is that OSU, as well as a few other programs, sell themselves when they have a proven successful head coach. I have admitted that its not good losing him. But again, asst. coaches come and go almost yearly. I am not too concerned that OSU will fall off the recruiting wagon. I'll even go out on a limb and predict that as long as Meyer is the head coach, OSU will almost certainly pull in top 5 classes yearly.LJ;1565464 wrote:Mike Vrabel was rated as the #1 rated recruiter in the B1G and #10 nationally. You are understating his importance by a lot
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Jan 10, 2014 11:59am
Lets not go overboard on how "good" the Dline was. Typically, your LB are only as good as your Dline. Yes, statistically, our DLine "looked" good. BUT, it was obvious that teams went into games going after the weakness, pass defense. So they were going to throw the ball. If our Dline was so good, against the good competition, why were we not getting consistant pressure on the QB agains those quality teams? Fact of the matter was, we were not, except on occasion. Our DB's were not good, but were made worse by this lack of pressure against good teams. Our Dline has talent, but it was young. The rushing stats are deceiving IMO.Al Bundy;1565480 wrote:Vrabel coached the Dline. Fickell was the DC and linebackers coach (the defense and linebackers both sucked this year). http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/1314_p1to14.pdf
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Jan 10, 2014 12:35pm
Rushing d stats are not deceiving. Osu had the national average of rushing attempts against them. Teams knew the pass d was so bad they ran max protect which allowed the qb to have time and confidence that a receiver would get open.centralbucksfan;1565503 wrote:Lets not go overboard on how "good" the Dline was. Typically, your LB are only as good as your Dline. Yes, statistically, our DLine "looked" good. BUT, it was obvious that teams went into games going after the weakness, pass defense. So they were going to throw the ball. If our Dline was so good, against the good competition, why were we not getting consistant pressure on the QB agains those quality teams? Fact of the matter was, we were not, except on occasion. Our DB's were not good, but were made worse by this lack of pressure against good teams. Our Dline has talent, but it was young. The rushing stats are deceiving IMO.
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jan 10, 2014 12:45pm
"Deceiving stats" on these types of boards mean stats that don't match one's preconceived and unchangeable opinions. The stats confirm what the eye test easily did, that the line was by far the best part of the defense. They were good. Not great, good.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jan 10, 2014 1:15pm
This is the same D-Line that has never won a BCS bowl game and never will.queencitybuckeye;1565525 wrote:"Deceiving stats" on these types of boards mean stats that don't match one's preconceived and unchangeable opinions. The stats confirm what the eye test easily did, that the line was by far the best part of the defense. They were good. Not great, good.
The defense sucked. Blame it on whoever you want, line, DB, LB, it sucked.
Automatik
Posts: 14,632
Jan 10, 2014 1:17pm
^^This.
While they played great at times (against terrible teams), they were average for the most part. MSU's Oline manhandled them and they weren't good against Clemson.
Edit: Bosa was an animal.
While they played great at times (against terrible teams), they were average for the most part. MSU's Oline manhandled them and they weren't good against Clemson.
Edit: Bosa was an animal.
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centralbucksfan
Posts: 5,111
Jan 10, 2014 1:23pm
And good isn't going to get it done against the top teams. Thats the bottom line. As mentioned, MSU manhandled, as did Clemson. Teams like Iowa and UM were pretty successful as well. But were playing catch up, thus having to throw the ball around. I am a numbers person, but defensive stats can be deceiving. As I mentioned, our DB's were not good. But against some decent teams, our front line didn't get the consistant pressure needed to help our DB's.queencitybuckeye;1565525 wrote:"Deceiving stats" on these types of boards mean stats that don't match one's preconceived and unchangeable opinions. The stats confirm what the eye test easily did, that the line was by far the best part of the defense. They were good. Not great, good.
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vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jan 10, 2014 1:56pm
End of Line
Posts: 6,867
Jan 10, 2014 4:39pm
I'm down for Randy Hart.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Jan 10, 2014 4:54pm
Agree with this, sans Bosa, the d-line was average at best against the two best teams we played. I had to ask someone if Michael Bennett even played in the Clemson game. I know the d-line was kinda taken out of the Clemson game, by the quick passes.Automatik;1565537 wrote:^^This.
While they played great at times (against terrible teams), they were average for the most part. MSU's Oline manhandled them and they weren't good against Clemson.
Edit: Bosa was an animal.
Automatik
Posts: 14,632
Jan 10, 2014 4:59pm
I kept hearing before and in the beginning of Meyer's tenure that he stresses pressure from the Dline and blah blah. I was expecting to have a killer front 7 like the one that destroyed us in the '06. I'll give him more time but I'm still waiting....
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sportchampps
Posts: 7,361
Jan 10, 2014 5:08pm
I would love John Chavis as D Coord or Co D Coord and Randy Hart as D Line coach.
I have to figure Chavis has some good recruiting connections down south.
I have to figure Chavis has some good recruiting connections down south.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jan 10, 2014 5:23pm
I don't know much about Chavis or Randy Hart, so I'd have to take a wait and see approach.
Midstate01
Posts: 14,766
Jan 10, 2014 5:28pm
I want Free or Chavis and Marcus freemen
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jan 10, 2014 5:34pm
CBF seems to be pretty ignorant of the importance of quality recruiting assistants, at least that's what I've gathered from his "whatever" attitude about Vrabel's departure.
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Tiernan
Posts: 13,021
Jan 10, 2014 11:59pm
We got way bigger problems than the departure of Vrabel. There needs to be a complete refocus from Urbie on what he wants his Defense to be. Once he does that maybe he can make the hard decisions on who from a staff perspective can help get the team where it needs to be.