Yeah, but a necessary one. Unless you expect every 18 year old to be able to find a job, or otherwise feed or shelter themselves while studying. We aren't birds that push out of nest....that is getting increasingly higher each year thanks to the Boomer generation (to get back on topic).

If it's increasingly difficult there's even more reason to not take debt for ordinary living expenses that you are increasingly unsure if you can pay back.

So what are they supposed to do - go homeless?

I really don't get where you are going here.

Manhattan Buckeye;1477360 wrote:So what are they supposed to do - go homeless?

I really don't get where you are going here.

You tell me what others are doing to feed and shelter themselves? I know what I would do. Do you believe that in today's world the only option for an 18 year old is to take out a loan so he can eat? Do you really believe that's the only option?

If they are going to college someone has to pay for it. If it isn't the parents, it isn't a schollie, and it isn't a job what else is there? The military? Ok, so a few thousand students get admitted to the academies. A guaranteed enlistment doesn't exist anymore. We're RIF'ing.

Manhattan Buckeye;1477367 wrote:If they are going to college someone has to pay for it. If it isn't the parents, it isn't a schollie, and it isn't a job what else is there? The military? Ok, so a few thousand students get admitted to the academies. A guaranteed enlistment doesn't exist anymore. We're RIF'ing.

That's my point. They can't afford to go to college. They can't even afford to eat. They took as risk on hoping they would be able to afford to later based on their improved marketable skills. So they asked for money in hopes they could pay it back latter.....it's a risk they took.

No matter the options available or not it remains a risk they took.

Well, heck. I guess we are now a third world country. I already agreed it was a risk. You promised to tell us "what [you] would do."

What would you do?

Be homeless?

Live with your parents?

Try to find a job/enlist?

Manhattan Buckeye;1477375 wrote:Well, heck. I guess we are now a third world country. I already agreed it was a risk. You promised to tell us "what [you] would do."

What would you do?

Be homeless?

Live with your parents?

Try to find a job/enlist?

That's all I have been saying. The individual took on the risk. It is now turning out to have been the wrong choice seeing how they are unable to pay. Taking on debt for ordinary living expesnes is unwise and is a step worse than taking out a loan for a depreciating asset.

When did I promise something? I don't understand your statement their.

Post #202.

Manhattan Buckeye;1477381 wrote:Post #202.

???? Sorry. I still don't get it. What do you say I promised you?

Promise might be the wrong term, but if I wrote something that stated that: "....I know what I would do. Do you believe that in today's world the only option for an 18 year old is to take out a loan so he can eat? Do you really believe that's the only option?"

I'd explain it in a little more detail. I'll just get to the point. What would you do?

Con_Alma;1477378 wrote:That's all I have been saying. The individual took on the risk. It is now turning out to have been the wrong choice seeing how they are unable to pay. Taking on debt for ordinary living expesnes is unwise and is a step worse than taking out a loan for a depreciating asset.

When did I promise something? I don't understand your statement their.

Suppose you got a 3.5 gpa in high school at a decent public school, you took A.P. Classes and got a 28 on your ACT. You are not an elite student but you clearly have some talent worthy of cultivating in higher education. You receive some scholarship money but not enough to cover the cost of tuition and room and board. What do you do?

I know what I would do if I couldn't afford to eat or shelter myself. Life needs become immediate. How were you eating and where were you living when you were 17 years, 364 days old? I would beg to continue that for as long as I could and then veture out to earn pennies doin whatever can be found...wash car windows on the corner, work the fields for a buck if I were rural.

What I did was lived at home with my father and eventually found a job as an apprentice meat cutter. Went to school at night and paid my way through undergrad. I'll never forget my father charging me rent...albeit it was peanuts lol, and then when I left he gave me all that money I paid to him back. It was a great lesson for me and very kind of him.

My point is if you can't afford to eat it would seem like that would be the priority. Actions of people are saying otherwise. If you choose to take the risk of debt so you can eat, you took the risk and it ended up not working out ideally for you.

BoatShoes;1477393 wrote:Suppose you got a 3.5 gpa in high school at a decent public school, you took A.P. Classes and got a 28 on your ACT. You are not an elite student but you clearly have some talent worthy of cultivating in higher education. You receive some scholarship money but not enough to cover the cost of tuition and room and board. What do you do?

Focus on being able to eat. Seems kind of important to me.

"I would beg to continue that for as long as I could"

So mooch off of your parents. And what if your parents couldn't accommodate you?

"earn pennies doin whatever can be found...wash car windows on the corner, work the fields for a buck if I were rural"

Be a bum, and possibly be an illegal bum.

Con_Alma, I normally like your posts but you are embarrassing yourself here.

I would certainly mooch off of my parents before begging for someone elses money in the form of a loan to feed myself. If fact that's what I did.

What you consider embarassment doesn't lead to owing money over decades for food and shelter.

I might also suggest that the victim menatlity of the only way to survive as an 18 year old is to take a loan out is what's truly embarassing.

Con_Alma;1477154 wrote:None of those things will magnified continue because I find amusement in your posts.

The crushing student loan debt was a calculated risk with no guarantee. Some people chose poorly and the risk is biting them in the rear.

What choices to graduating high school seniors have? Go to college to get a job that may or may not be able to support yourself or a family in the future -OR- Go get a job right out of college that will never be able to support a family.

Boomers are out of touch with reality. Going to college isn't cheap enough where you can support yourself with a job while paying for school. It also is no longer a path to guaranteed salaried employment. Therefore, the risk is being calculated with "Well if I go to college maybe I will win the lottery and get a job that I can maybe one day support a family with" vs. "If I don't go to college I will work at Target the rest of my life and never have even be close to supporting a family".

"I might also suggest that the victim menatlity of the only way to survive as an 18 year old is to take a loan out is what's truly embarassing."

Yet you didn't state anything different than I stated above:

1) Mooch off of parents (not a choice for many young people)

2) Try to get a low paying job - which in case you haven't noticed, and I'm sure you have on the politics forum. The economy sucks. It is the worst labor market since the Great Depression - you talk about apprenticeships? Professional meat cutters can't get jobs today.

Again, what other options are there?

Manhattan Buckeye;1477433 wrote:"I might also suggest that the victim menatlity of the only way to survive as an 18 year old is to take a loan out is what's truly embarassing."

Yet you didn't state anything different than I stated above:

1) Mooch off of parents (not a choice for many young people)

2) Try to get a low paying job - which in case you haven't noticed, and I'm sure you have on the politics forum. The economy sucks. It is the worst labor market since the Great Depression - you talk about apprenticeships? Professional meat cutters can't get jobs today.

Again, what other options are there?

I think I did say something different...something very different. Choosing not to take a loan for school when you can't afford to eat is very different than anything you have said.

One need not mooch off of parents. There are many ways of earning your keep while residing in the home. My teenage children do it and they are not employed.

Again, suggesting a loan is the only way to be able to eat is succumbing to being a victim.

My father was a depression era child. He had much less than the children of today. They didn't take a loan out to eat.

Are your kids in college?! If not, do you plan on keeping them at home during their college years? Do you plan on paying for their meals in college?

We aren't living in an era where people can just plant potatoes in their front yard.

gut;1477244 wrote:Yes, you are lowering the bar. Such things are so important that there is simply no excusing ignorance. None. It's a critical life decision, and even at 18 it is not a decision people are incapable of or should be absolved of.

We have to stop making excuses for laziness/stupidity. If that sounds harsh, then it is due to an entitlement complex.

The problem is the choices are terrible at age 18. College, no matter the debt level, is still the only reasonable ticket to a middle class lifestyle. The problem is, that ticket is no longer really there for a growing majority of students so now the ticket to a middle class lifestyle is a lot of luck and a pricey college degree.

sleeper;1477447 wrote:The problem is the choices are terrible at age 18. College, no matter the debt level, is still the only reasonable ticket to a middle class lifestyle. The problem is, that ticket is no longer really there for a growing majority of students so now the ticket to a middle class lifestyle is a lot of luck and a pricey college degree.

Agreed. With that "ticket" "no longer being there" the realization of taking on debt for expenses above educational services becomes an even greater risk than before.

Manhattan Buckeye;1477445 wrote:Are your kids in college?! If not, do you plan on keeping them at home during their college years? Do you plan on paying for their meals in college?

We aren't living in an era where people can just plant potatoes in their front yard.

I have one daughter in college. She is not at home. Yes, I have agreed to fund her education so long as she maintains certain levels of performance.

I'm not suggesting you plant potatoes but if you can't afford to east you certainly cant afford to go to school.

Con_Alma;1477448 wrote:Agreed. With that "ticket" "no longer being there" the realization of taking on debt for expenses above educational services becomes an even greater risk than before.

Please go give a speech to your local high school seniors on this topic. Tell them to not go to college and get a job as a meat cutting apprentice. That will go over well I'm sure.

So, what happens if she doesn't maintain that level of performance? Not eat, or drop out, or something else?

Are you even remotely aware that the majority of parents can't afford to pay full costs for school? What year were you born? Are you a boomer or not, because you sound like the boomerist of boomers.