Crimson streak;1313404 wrote:He represents leadership not only on the field but off. He's an academic all American, and represents all that is good in college football. He's a great kid I'm going to be sad to see him leave nd

Zero BCS bowl wins.

sleeper;1313441 wrote:Zero BCS bowl wins.

Neither does Klein or Braxton miller what's your point?

Crimson streak;1313444 wrote:Neither does Klein or Braxton miller what's your point?

Klein and Miller > LB

I think it's far more likely that voters give the Heisman to Te'o as compensation for a 12-0 Notre Dame team not making the BCS NG, than for voters to give the Heisman to a QB for team on probation. Just my opinion.

I'll guess that Kenjon Barner wins the Heisman though.

sleeper;1313451 wrote:Klein and Miller > LB

And qb's have a bigger impact on games than a lb and they haven't won a bcs game, which makes them look worse lol

Crimson streak;1313459 wrote:And qb's have a bigger impact on games than a lb and they haven't won a bcs game, which makes them look worse lol

A LB has almost zero impact on team success. When's the last team to win a National Championship with a shitty QB and top 5 LB?

sleeper;1313473 wrote:A LB has almost zero impact on team success. When's the last team to win a National Championship with a ****ty QB and top 5 LB?

Alabama. But again what does that have to do with zero bcs bowl wins?

Crimson streak;1313482 wrote:Alabama. But again what does that have to do with zero bcs bowl wins?

Wrong. It was Ohio State in 2002.

sleeper;1313473 wrote:A LB has almost zero impact on team success. When's the last team to win a National Championship with a shitty QB and top 5 LB?

Alabama 2011
Alabama 2009
LSU 2004
Ohio State 2002

Shazier has better stats, with the exception of interceptions, this year than Teo.

Pick6;1313766 wrote:Shazier has better stats, with the exception of interceptions, this year than Teo.

This is moot for a number of reasons.

Defensive styles (Te'o is in coverage more than he blitzes) determine the number of sacks/interceptions as much as anything. To Manti's credit, he ranks second in the country in interceptions and that's not exactly something to sneeze at. The ILBs don't blitz as often, because the DL gets enough pressure (Stephon Tuitt is second in the country in sacks, with ten, among BCS players). Also Ohio State's defense is on the field a lot more than Notre Dame's. Notre Dame's ranks second in points allowed, whereas Ohio State ranks forty-sixth. It would be interesting to see what percentage of tackles each player makes for their team, that's a nifty stat--but there are also a hundred explanations for that as well.

One simply cannot use stats to compare players, despite what fans and blogs love to do. I do think Shazier is a stud, but he is nowhere near Te'o this season. I don't think you could find a single coach in the country who would take Shazier over Te'o. I assume you weren't exactly saying that though.

Automatik;1313409 wrote:I have nothing against Te'o, he's a great player, but skill wise he's not worthy of the Heisman.

The only reason he's in the running is because he's ND's best player and they are back in the national spotlight. IMO he's not even as influential as the Honey Badger and look where he finished.

I'm not someone who thinks Te'o will win the Heisman and have no issue with you as you're being reasonable but I do disagree with why you said the only reason Te'o is being mentioned for the award. First off, what school you play for and how good they're doing plays a big part for every player being hyped or mentioned for it so I don't think that is even really worth mentioning to be honest. The other candidates are serious candidates for the same reason. Furthermore, Te'o has made some big plays at critical times ala Charles Woodson (and the comparisons can end there as Woodson was a playmaker on offense and special teams as well). I think the end of game INT's that helped seal wins in primetime marquee games have a lot to do with it as well.

Anyways, I don't think he'll win it and I won't even argue that he should....but I can understand why his name is up there. It's not like this is a big "star" year either in college football so a defensive player, while pretty damn good IMO, is kinda up there by default.

I agree he's up there by default. I can't think of another defensive player even worth mentioning.

If ND had a loss or two I doubt he'd even be in the running.. It's just how the Heisman is these days. I wish it were different and defensive players actually had a shot. I think it's a bit of a joke that they even put them in the running when we all know their shot to win is pretty slim.

It's an off year for the Heisman and CFB as a whole..

sjmvsfscs08;1313456 wrote:I think it's far more likely that voters give the Heisman to Te'o as compensation for a 12-0 Notre Dame team not making the BCS NG, than for voters to give the Heisman to a QB for team on probation. Just my opinion.

You're joking, right? The voters don't give the trophy as "compensation", they give it to whomever they feel deserves it by not only their stats, but their play on the field. You are blinded by your hatred of your soon-to-be alma mater, Toby, and it truly is sad.

LOL sjm gotta be trolling, but I'll bite.

If ND is left out that will have no effect on Heisman voters and the same goes for OSU's postseason ban. See Andre Ware, Heisman winner, '89.

sjmvsfscs08;1313732 wrote:Alabama 2011
Alabama 2009
LSU 2004
Ohio State 2002

LOL @ saying Krenzel was a shitty qb. He would be the 43rd ranked passer this year. That isn't world beater, but its far from shitty. Golson for ND is 86th for comparison.

Saying McCarron is shitty is hilarious as well. He only went for 2634 16 td and 5 int last year and is 1849 with 19 td and 0 int this year.

sjmvsfscs08;1313768 wrote:One simply cannot use stats to compare players

sjmvsfscs08;1313732 wrote:Alabama 2011
Alabama 2009
LSU 2004
Ohio State 2002

None of the teams besides OSU had a top 5 all-time LB.

sleeper;1313845 wrote:None of the teams besides OSU had a top 5 all-time LB.

Who is this "top 5 all-time LB" you speak of?

Automatik;1313891 wrote:Who is this "top 5 all-time LB" you speak of?

A.J. Hawk. And you call yourself a fan? GTFO.

sleeper;1313905 wrote:A.J. Hawk. And you call yourself a fan? GTFO.

Hawk was a freshman and not a full time starter in '02.

Automatik;1313907 wrote:Hawk was a freshman and not a full time starter in '02.

He was still on the team, along with Heisman trophy winner T. Smith. Do you not know who that is either? :rolleyes:

sleeper;1313915 wrote:He was still on the team, along with Heisman trophy winner T. Smith. Do you not know who that is either? :rolleyes:

I just thought it was odd that you touted him a "top 5 all time LB" for his efforts in '02, when he was primarily a backup. He did ball out in the title game, no doubt about that.

LJ;1313836 wrote:LOL @ saying Krenzel was a shitty qb. He would be the 43rd ranked passer this year. That isn't world beater, but its far from shitty. Golson for ND is 86th for comparison.

Saying McCarron is shitty is hilarious as well. He only went for 2634 16 td and 5 int last year and is 1849 with 19 td and 0 int this year.

Sleeper used the word shitty, I'm using it as "not great." i.e. not an All-American.

sjmvsfscs08;1314010 wrote:Sleeper used the word shitty, I'm using it as "not great." i.e. not an All-American.

Krenzel has more BCS Championships by himself than every played in ND history combined x 1545555 trillion.