Tiernan;1290639 wrote:I heard Jon Gruden talking about how he is ready for the NFL now. Lets see sleeper or "Chuckie" for an opinion on whether a QB can play in the NFL?



and I hate supporting Automatik on anything.

You didn't really just use Jon Gruden as an "expert" an NFL readiness, did you?

Sonofanump;1290861 wrote:Best NCAA QB, yes. NFL ready, no. He has the arm, but the arm angle is typical for lofting throws against Big12 defenses. Should be an easy fix. He looks like a top 5, if not top 3 pick right now.

He does have a long stroke and his arm drops too low. A good QB coach should be able to fix that. The rest of him looks good.

WebFire;1290940 wrote:He does have a long stroke and his arm drops too low. A good QB coach should be able to fix that. The rest of him looks good.

At least he doesn't have a side arm delivery or something miserable.

cats gone wild;1290864 wrote:We all know that.


A defensive player has no chance. TM7 was a human highlight reel last year and he couldnt crack the top 2.

Mathaeu was also garbage in coverage. T'eo stands for everything the heisman represents.

T'eo will never win the Heisman. Once ND loses a few games(and their bowl game), T'eo will go back to being an average LB playing at an over hyped university.

Geno, for sure. And I hope the Jets can somehow land him.

Fly4Fun;1290921 wrote:Based on what? Tradition... shouldn't factor into Heisman voting as you are voting for a player, not a school (but it probably does factor in a bit to be honest). Exposure? I'm pretty sure Mathieu had plenty of that as he was a phenomenon and everyone who pays attention to college football knew of him.

Quality of Character/Integrity? Based upon Mathieu's past and apparent lack of a bad one from Te'o, he does have a huge edge in this category.

Also, I love how quickly the Barkley campaign fell apart... putting up Billboards before the season even started. It's one thing for an athlete to do well on the field then the school/fans push his name late in the season. It's another to put up billboards before the season starts.

yup

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2012/10/15/heisman-survey-geno-smith-braxton-miller-collin-klein/1634233/

Just looking at the numbers in that article, he still looks like the clear favorite.

WebFire;1296252 wrote:Just looking at the numbers in that article, he still looks like the clear favorite.

What numbers were you looking at?

If it is the votes/total votes then it seems at best a toss up at the moment. Smith only having a few more 1st place votes and only winning the total by 1.

If it is the production of each you are looking at then that is a toss up as well. 2,271 yards and 25 TD's vs. 1,271 yards passing and 912 rushing (2,183 total) and then 11 and 9 TD's respectively (20 total).

If it is the game performance, yes, Geno does have that amazing game versus Baylor. But he also has an absolute stinker against Texas Tech. Braxton has some bad quarters, but has yet to put up a complete flop of a game.

If anything this looks like neck and neck. I don't see a clear favorite from the numbers.

Its still Geno's to lose but Miller could sneak in if the Bucks can somehow run the table which maybe isn't as far-fetched as it was even 3 wks ago. Voters love an undefeated team whether they are bowl eligible or not and some mid-west voters may give Miller the nod just because the Bucke are bowl ineligible realizing none of the shit was a fault of anybody still associated with the team.

Miller doesn't deserve it. Not yet.

j_crazy;1296272 wrote:Miller doesn't deserve it. Not yet.

Does anyone?

I really do think this is a terrible year for college football. There aren't very many teams that are good. There are no real stand out stars.
But I think Braxton has as much of a shot at the Heisman as anyone else at this point. Before this weekend it was Geno's to lose, and he took one giant step in that direction.

Miller is a good player, but not Heisman worthy.

j_crazy;1296272 wrote:Miller doesn't deserve it. Not yet.

Hey TWHPIH didn't deserve it either but they gave it to him. Braxton Miller is superior in all phases of the game and as a student and likable person to that turd so he may as well win it if Geno continures to stumble.

Fly4Fun;1296276 wrote:Does anyone?

I really do think this is a terrible year for college football. There aren't very many teams that are good. There are no real stand out stars.
But I think Braxton has as much of a shot at the Heisman as anyone else at this point. Before this weekend it was Geno's to lose, and he took one giant step in that direction.

good post

Fly4Fun;1296257 wrote:What numbers were you looking at?

If it is the votes/total votes then it seems at best a toss up at the moment. Smith only having a few more 1st place votes and only winning the total by 1.

If it is the production of each you are looking at then that is a toss up as well. 2,271 yards and 25 TD's vs. 1,271 yards passing and 912 rushing (2,183 total) and then 11 and 9 TD's respectively (20 total).

If it is the game performance, yes, Geno does have that amazing game versus Baylor. But he also has an absolute stinker against Texas Tech. Braxton has some bad quarters, but has yet to put up a complete flop of a game.

If anything this looks like neck and neck. I don't see a clear favorite from the numbers.

Smith is 4th in the nation in Total Offense.
Miller is 17th.

Smith is 2nd in nation in passing, with 2271 yards and 25 TDS.
Miller is not in the top 50.

Smith is 1st in passer rating with a 180.80
Miller is 34th at 145.32

Smith is 1st in nation in points responsible for, at 26 per game.
Miller is 8th at 17.71.

Miller is 7th in rushing with 130 yds/gm.
Smith is not in the top 50.
FWIW, Denard Robinson is 4th in the nation with 134 yds/gm.

Given the numbers, Smith is still my clear favorite. The only think Miller has an argument for right now are the rushing stats.

And, FTR, I like Miller and think he will be a very good player when he leaves OSU. He will most likely be invited to the Heisman stage this year, but I think its Smith's to lose at this point. We still have half the season to go, so it could all change.

Smith still has a solid chance, but last week hurt him.

I think Collin Klein could be in the mix is K-State keeps winning. I'm taking them to win the B12.

WebFire;1296356 wrote:And, FTR, I like Miller and think he will be a very good player when he leaves OSU. He will most likely be invited to the Heisman stage this year, but I think its Smith's to lose at this point. We still have half the season to go, so it could all change.

I still think you give it to Smith, but he definitely has left the door open. I wouldn't mind seeing the guy from K-State win it if Geno continues to blow it.

Not sure why a few on here are saying Klein over Miller. Klein is a better passer, Miller is a better runner. But they are very similar and overall Braxton has better numbers.

Also if you look more into the stats Klein does worse against AP ranked teams where so far statistically Miller remains about the same. (Yes this is a very small sample for both so far, but that's just the nature of the beast).

To me it seems that they are similar, except one excels a bit more in passing while the other is a bit better on the ground.

I understand saying he's in the mix as he should be. But as it currently stands Braxton should be ahead of Klein. Yes, Klein's team has a bigger win (Oklahoma), but that wasn't because Klein had a great game.

Fly4Fun;1296427 wrote:Not sure why a few on here are saying Klein over Miller. Klein is a better passer, Miller is a better runner. But they are very similar and overall Braxton has better numbers.

Also if you look more into the stats Klein does worse against AP ranked teams where so far statistically Miller remains about the same. (Yes this is a very small sample for both so far, but that's just the nature of the beast).

To me it seems that they are similar, except one excels a bit more in passing while the other is a bit better on the ground.

I understand saying he's in the mix as he should be. But as it currently stands Braxton should be ahead of Klein. Yes, Klein's team has a bigger win (Oklahoma), but that wasn't because Klein had a great game.

Klein is also a senior and K-State doesn't have the same talent OSU has.

For one year, this is actually a fun debate given Geno Smith's struggles. Smith still has to be the favorite though, for now.

sleeper;1296430 wrote:Klein is also a senior and K-State doesn't have the same talent OSU has.

Exactly Klein basically is Kansas st lol. Miller will get his shot next year or the following.

If improvement of team is factored in here (which it may not in the minds of many voters), then Miller has a decent shot of winning. Smith is a stud, no argument here, and he would get my vote right now, period. That being said, his team CRUSHED Clemson in a BCS game last year, while Miller has almost single-handedly taken an under .500 Buckeye team and turned them into an undefeated, top 10 team.