unions are artificial creations of government with rights granted by government which trump human freedoms.


:laugh:

unions are associations of workers to fight for their rights, they existed long before there was any government recognition of them. corporations exist only from government fiat and has always been thus.

unions are groups of sheep led by thugs who use coercion to build and maintain membership, and then leach off of productive persons, corporations, and taxpayers in order to perpetuate their monopoly.


Fixed it for you.

unions are organizations of workers that allow them to resist the abusive demands of corporations. so that child labor in factories has ended, work places have become safer, injured workers have financial protection and there is a minimum on wages. corporations and their lackeys oppose all of this.

QuakerOats;1248438 wrote:unions are groups of sheep led by thugs who use coercion to build and maintain membership, and then leach off of productive persons, corporations, and taxpayers in order to perpetuate their monopoly.

In addition, every major industry/sector monopolized by unions have been bankrupted, along with government. The thugs sold the sheep down the tubes.

It's obvious from some of the comments on here that many of the union-haters out there have never seriously dealt with union employees from a management position or point of view. While I didn't always agree with the positions held by the four different unions which represented the workers at our factory, I always respected the organization and structure of the unions. We had collective bargaining agreements in place with all four unions and when there were disputes they were handled in a structured manner, with procedures clearly spelled out as to how to settle disputes.

Having been a former union member and a department head in management I cannot recall any time during our many bargaining agreements where there wasn't a "no-strike" clause in the agreement language. The union had the right to strike whenever the contract ran out and no new agreement was in place, but once the agreement was ratified and signed there could not be any work stoppages for any reason. I suspect many large unions and companies have something similar in their collective bargaining agreements. The days of the old "wildcat strikes" are long gone, in my opinion.

I thought the word strike was referring to those that existed after the contract had expired. I don't know that it changes much.

Who are the "many union haters" on here? Or is that just one of the many delusions you cling to in order to continue believing what you do?

I would have no problem stating I was a hater if I was. I don't. That seems a bit silly to me.

Con_Alma;1248543 wrote:I would have no problem stating I was a hater if I was. I don't. That seems a bit silly to me.

It's all part of buying-in to the liberal propaganda. No one could really believe half their shit without having their eyes and ears glued shut.

stlouiedipalma;1248531 wrote:It's obvious from some of the comments on here that many of the union-haters out there have never seriously dealt with union employees from a management position or point of view.

First, I don't hate unions. They certainly played a role in the creation of safer workplaces and a strong middle class.

Second, I was a member of a union a couple of years in the 70's and even participated in a wildcat strike when I was young, dumb, and full of cum.

Third, I dealt with a union shop for 17 years as a member of management and can easily attribute a large part - but not all - of the blame on the "bargaining unit" for the eventual demise of a once profitable company.

Fourth, I've been a part of a management team in a non-union shop the past 11 years and I can say without a doubt that it is a far, far better place to be. Our employees are paid fairly and enjoy great benefits without having union thugs dipping into their wallets each month to collect their "fair share" of the employees' labor.

Unions are simply no longer required except as a financing tool for Democratic politicians.

I hate unions. I also hate big government. In fact I effin hate big corporations too. I hate apple pie and chevrolet, and the military.

believer;1248666 wrote:First, I don't hate unions. They certainly played a role in the creation of safer workplaces and a strong middle class.

Second, I was a member of a union a couple of years in the 70's and even participated in a wildcat strike when I was young, dumb, and full of cum.

Third, I dealt with a union shop for 17 years as a member of management and can easily attribute a large part - but not all - of the blame on the "bargaining unit" for the eventual demise of a once profitable company.

Fourth, I've been a part of a management team in a non-union shop the past 11 years and I can say without a doubt that it is a far, far better place to be. Our employees are paid fairly and enjoy great benefits without having union thugs dipping into their wallets each month to collect their "fair share" of the employees' labor.

Unions are simply no longer required except as a financing tool for Democratic politicians.

sure the members of the management team are best to judge the contentment of workers. hyenas are the best judge of the contentment of wildebeasts, wolves the best judges of contentment of caribou,

gut;1248540 wrote:Who are the "many union haters" on here? Or is that just one of the many delusions you cling to in order to continue believing what you do?

Okay, let's call all of you "non-fans of unions". When I continually see the word "thug" in every thread concerning unions, I am led to believe that the person using that term hates unions.

As I stated earlier, I have been on both sides. I was in a union for 13 years and spent 21 in management. I know a lot of managers who work for non-union shops and the biggest problem they have is that there is no structure in place to deal with problems or issues in the workplace. It's like there is a "run" on the HR manager's office in the non-union shops. With the union shops there are committees in place to handle grievances and other issues. In my experience it is easier to deal with these committees.

stlouiedipalma;1248938 wrote:Okay, let's call all of you "non-fans of unions". When I continually see the word "thug" in every thread concerning unions, I am led to believe that the person using that term hates unions.

As I stated earlier, I have been on both sides. I was in a union for 13 years and spent 21 in management. I know a lot of managers who work for non-union shops and the biggest problem they have is that there is no structure in place to deal with problems or issues in the workplace. It's like there is a "run" on the HR manager's office in the non-union shops. With the union shops there are committees in place to handle grievances and other issues. In my experience it is easier to deal with these committees.

You're not the only one that's been in union and non-union shops. My perspective is different than yours. Your comment about grievances is pretty comical, because I routinely saw grievances leveraged to bring people back to work, at the expense of the good workers (who knew it and didn't like it, but couldn't do anything about it). But I agree some unions are better than others. I just think they've mostly served their purpose, and around much of the country when it comes to vote to unionize, the results seem to agree with me.

But I've also seen unions be adaptable and flexible. The public unions, however, are a much bigger animal and a much bigger problem.

My comment about grievances doesn't apply to the quality of grievances, but to the procedure in which they are handled. Done correctly, grievance meetings can be quite productive, giving both the union and the management an opportunity to take corrective action and prevent future occurences.

stlouiedipalma;1248990 wrote:My comment about grievances doesn't apply to the quality of grievances, but to the procedure in which they are handled. Done correctly, grievance meetings can be quite productive, giving both the union and the management an opportunity to take corrective action and prevent future occurences.

There's that, but let's not ignore the resistance to job efficiencies and, in some cases, automation. Sure, they make some things easier but other things harder. It's difficult to identify any real value unions add today, which is why workers increasingly are choosing to keep their union dues and not organize.

gut;1248994 wrote:There's that, but let's not ignore the resistance to job efficiencies and, in some cases, automation. Sure, they make some things easier but other things harder. It's difficult to identify any real value unions add today, which is why workers increasingly are choosing to keep their union dues and not organize.

I'll agree with you there.

stlouiedipalma;1248938 wrote:Okay, let's call all of you "non-fans of unions". When I continually see the word "thug" in every thread concerning unions, I am led to believe that the person using that term hates unions.

I don't hate dues paying union members. I just don't have much respect for union thuggery.

The Union Leader way : You pay dues so I can have more.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/17/ex-border-patrol-union-president-indicted/?test=latestnews


Everyday I could post a Union Fraud and Corrupt article ....

People say "we don't need unions anymore". But today at my union shop I saw a good example of why they're still quite a necessity. We've got this supervisor who is a complete a**hole and continually threatens people with their jobs and is always abrasive. He's not the only one either. Anyways some kid forgot to simply press a button when scanning a hazmat package, despite still cataloging the paper copy in the truck. Now he's on probation and they were nasty as heck to him. Without the union he's gone, and just for a simple and not major mistake.

Bottomline, at least at UPS, is that harassment in union shops is still terrible. I look at new hires and they just look hopeless while supervisors tell them how much they suck in that language. One told a kid he should go shred paper with the retarded people across the street. Another time they tried to give a few guys with less seniority than me the one dollar an hour bonus because they sucked up and I didn't. If it wasn't for the union I would've never gotten that raise

Nobody starts as a pro-union guy really when they're hired. You're just there to work and get paid. But it's the fact that supervisors continually go over the top in these shops that makes you see them as more of an enemy than a boss. Luckily unions give you a leg to stand on when they do this

You're right. You do need a union there. Yelling at people for not doing there job is exactly why protection should be in place. You have changed my mind completely.

Classyposter58;1251695 wrote:People say "we don't need unions anymore". But today at my union shop I saw a good example of why they're still quite a necessity. We've got this supervisor who is a complete a**hole and continually threatens people with their jobs and is always abrasive. He's not the only one either. Anyways some kid forgot to simply press a button when scanning a hazmat package, despite still cataloging the paper copy in the truck. Now he's on probation and they were nasty as heck to him. Without the union he's gone, and just for a simple and not major mistake.

Bottomline, at least at UPS, is that harassment in union shops is still terrible. I look at new hires and they just look hopeless while supervisors tell them how much they suck in that language. One told a kid he should go shred paper with the retarded people across the street. Another time they tried to give a few guys with less seniority than me the one dollar an hour bonus because they sucked up and I didn't. If it wasn't for the union I would've never gotten that raise

Nobody starts as a pro-union guy really when they're hired. You're just there to work and get paid. But it's the fact that supervisors continually go over the top in these shops that makes you see them as more of an enemy than a boss. Luckily unions give you a leg to stand on when they do this

1. To act like not scanning a HAZMAT package properly is not a big deal is ignorant and you know it. You can't down play hazardous material transportation.

2. If the supervisor is just like you say, in a non-union shop he might have got a way with firing the first guy or two but he would have been gone long ago because management would have figured out the problem was him quicker. So, he would have been gone long ago making your life easier and your buddy would have got fired by someone else for not scanning a HAZMAT package properly .

I'm sorry, but you have no idea how the real world, outside of unions really works if you truly believe the stuff you just posted.

Classyposter58;1251695 wrote: Bottomline, at least at UPS, is that harassment in union shops is still terrible.

I'd argue this behavior by management is at least in part a "chicken or egg" scenario.

Classyposter58;1251695 wrote:People say "we don't need unions anymore". But today at my union shop I saw a good example of why they're still quite a necessity. We've got this supervisor who is a complete a**hole and continually threatens people with their jobs and is always abrasive. He's not the only one either. Anyways some kid forgot to simply press a button when scanning a hazmat package, despite still cataloging the paper copy in the truck. Now he's on probation and they were nasty as heck to him. Without the union he's gone, and just for a simple and not major mistake.

Bottomline, at least at UPS, is that harassment in union shops is still terrible. I look at new hires and they just look hopeless while supervisors tell them how much they suck in that language. One told a kid he should go shred paper with the retarded people across the street. Another time they tried to give a few guys with less seniority than me the one dollar an hour bonus because they sucked up and I didn't. If it wasn't for the union I would've never gotten that raise

Nobody starts as a pro-union guy really when they're hired. You're just there to work and get paid. But it's the fact that supervisors continually go over the top in these shops that makes you see them as more of an enemy than a boss. Luckily unions give you a leg to stand on when they do this

Choice to work there. Choice.