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Gay Student Sues over T-Shirt

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Gay Student Sues over T-Shirt
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isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:49 AM
ccrunner609;1136431 wrote:But you made a point that this was about bullying and the shirt has nothing to do with bullying. If the kid wants to wear a shirt to that affect then his shirt should say "Bullies should not be homophobes". This shirt interjects a geo-political/religion aspect that has no place in a school. Public schools arent there for kids to make their social/political statements.

He can take that shirt and go stand in front of Krogers that night. He doesnt have a place at school.
A student exercising free speech in a school has both a cognitive and affective function. It reflects some of the standards for Ohio schools. They are applying knowledge they have learned about the 1st Amendment in a positive way. They are taking a figure who is widely admired and saying he would not hate a long persecuted minority who continues to be bullied. The courts have already said students 1St Amendment rights do not all die at the door to the school. Kids do wear religious t shirt to school, with statement from and about Jesus. The Tinker case, an anti Vietnam protest, was about a
"geo-political" subject and the Supreme Court said it was constitutional and by stopping it the school had violated the rights of the students.

"Bullies should not be homophobes". Gosh I hope you don't have this copyrighted, I would like to print a couple of thousand of them.
Apr 4, 2012 8:49am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:05 AM
ccrunner609;1136439 wrote:Any student has freedom of speech at any time during school as long as that speech fits the confines of the rules. The school sounds like the prescedent had been set long ago and has followed the rules regularly.

In the real world you get fired from your job if your boss tells you that the shirt you are wearing doesnt fit in the workplace. You can stand behind the 1st ammendment all you want, wearing a tshirt for a cause is ****ing stupid to begin with.
Tinker v Des Moines set a precedent that free speech extends into the schools. Examples like the kid in the /Elkhart, Indiana schools with his marine corps t shirt show free speech by t shirts in the schools. This t shirt is in no way indecent or sexual in nature as the school claimed, it contains a positive message that be allowed in the schools, especially when it helps address a real problem there.
Do you wear t shirts for athletic teams you support. You may not have noticed but many people do. Hell people wear them in school even if wearing a Michigan shirt might offend some OSU fans or vice versa. Wearing a t shirt to express support for an athletic team is ok, but not wearing a t shirt to support research against cancer is bad because it offends the cancer supporters, an anti racism t shirt because it offends bigots, an anti bullying t shirt because it offends bullies, Christ is not a homophobe t shirt because it offends ______.
Apr 4, 2012 10:05am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:12 AM
I believe it was the Tinker case that developed that, "If a school feels that something will disrupt the educational process and learning..." then it may do things like this.

Edit: I see I'm late to the party.
Apr 4, 2012 10:12am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:16 AM
And as the Elkhart and other cases have shown they do not have an unlimited right to exercise arbitrary power over the students right of free expression in wearing t shirts.
Apr 4, 2012 10:16am
M

MontyBrunswick

Apr 4, 2012 10:17 AM
Kid was being an attention whore/distraction. That's enough grounds for the school to ask him to take it off.

However, the bullshit reason they actually gave is not grounds for him to change his shirt.
Apr 4, 2012 10:17am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:26 AM
Bottom line, to me, is... if they school felt that it was truly disrupting the educational process, then they are fine in asking him not to wear it. But, like dlazz.net said, the reason they gave (too religious) is complete BS.
Apr 4, 2012 10:26am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:29 AM
dlazz;1136500 wrote:Kid was being an attention whore/distraction. That's enough grounds for the school to ask him to take it off.

However, the bull**** reason they actually gave is not grounds for him to change his shirt.
the school administrator brought the attention not the kid. He would have worn the shirt, been largely ignored by his fellow students and that would have been it.
Apr 4, 2012 10:29am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:32 AM
ernest_t_bass;1136509 wrote:Bottom line, to me, is... if they school felt that it was truly disrupting the educational process, then they are fine in asking him not to wear it. But, like dlazz.net said, the reason they gave (too religious) is complete BS.
it is a real stretch to say that it is disrupting the educational process. What they usually use as a basis is that because the t shirt is obscene or indecent it is disruptive, that t shirt is neither.
Apr 4, 2012 10:32am
Scarlet_Buckeye's avatar

Scarlet_Buckeye

Senior Member

5,264 posts
Apr 4, 2012 10:54 AM
My question is... how does the kid know Jesus wasn't a homophobe?
Apr 4, 2012 10:54am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Apr 4, 2012 11:11 AM
isadore;1136410 wrote: Hardly there is nothing sexual or indecent in that positive message. In fact,
one of the key phrases we hear continuously from so many of these Christian opponents of homosexuality, “hate the sin, love the sinner,” love the sinner, not be afraid of him\her, not hold him\her in contempt. Based on that it is unChristian to be a homophobe and Christ is not a homophobe.
I didn't say the shirt was sexual or indecent, I said it was a deliberate affront on Christian beliefs. That's what you don't understand. Like I said, I doubt you would approve of the "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" t-shirt. It's essentially the same type argument presented in the same way, it's just not a pro-gay message.

Christianity views homosexual acts as a sin, not being a homosexual. Technically, a homophobe would only fear or be offended by the acts. So in that regard Christianity and Jesus are, in fact, homophobic. This shirt deliberately attacks that belief system that homosexuality is wrong, doing so to get a reaction, and in that regard it is inappropriate.
Apr 4, 2012 11:11am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 11:12 AM
I guess that is just his hope.
Jesus loves me,yes I know, because the Bible tells me so.
Apr 4, 2012 11:12am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 4, 2012 11:47 AM
isadore;1136544 wrote:I guess that is just his hope.
Jesus loves me,yes I know, because the Bible tells me so.
Of course it is simply His hope. Not everybody does and He gave them free will to make that decision on their own.
Apr 4, 2012 11:47am
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 4, 2012 11:49 AM
I'm gonna back the kid on this one. Jesus is NOT a homophone. Could be a homograph and a heteronym, though.

When some of you ask "Jesus" for a favor, you are essentially talking to the air. When I ask "Jesus" for a favor, it typically has something to do with the mulch because he is the guy who does my landscaping.

Jesus (gee-zus) = supernatural concept
Jesus (hey, seuss) = landscaper

Same word, different meaning = homograph
Same word, different meaning and pronunciation = heteronym
Apr 4, 2012 11:49am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Apr 4, 2012 12:08 PM
ccrunner609;1136602 wrote:I believe the seperation of church and state should take care of this. Waynesville is a government funded and ran school. Religion is not allowed.
Perhaps. What will end-up happening is the school will clarify their position or make a different distinction and the end result will be the kid still can't wear the shirt. And all that will really have been accomplished is to waste resources, court time, and taxpayer money. And people wonder why people are sick of crap like this.
Apr 4, 2012 12:08pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 4, 2012 1:08 PM
gut;1136610 wrote:Perhaps. What will end-up happening is the school will clarify their position or make a different distinction and the end result will be the kid still can't wear the shirt. And all that will really have been accomplished is to waste resources, court time, and taxpayer money. And people wonder why people are sick of crap like this.
On whose part? Sick of kids and parents filing lawsuits, or sick of school enforcing rules?
Apr 4, 2012 1:08pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Apr 4, 2012 1:14 PM
justincredible;1136180 wrote:Well then Jesus is a dick.
That's why he got nailed to the cross. They didn't put up with fucking assholes back in the day.
Apr 4, 2012 1:14pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Apr 4, 2012 1:42 PM
isadore;1136395 wrote:From 4-18 school is a major part of their "real world" and if someone is making it hell for them or someone they know, they should act to protect. Hopefully in "the real world" they will not quietly accept racism, misogyny or homophobia, they will resist it as this student is.
He can resist all he wants, but it's not going to change anyone's mind. If someone calls him a *** on the street, what is he going to do..run tell the police that he is being "bullied"??
Apr 4, 2012 1:42pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Apr 4, 2012 2:07 PM
jesus says to be tolerant, yet says gays are to be held in contempt. Seems like a hypocrit to me.

Also seems like an asshole.

Also, I love people that live their life by the bible. Such a conformed way to live!
Apr 4, 2012 2:07pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 4, 2012 3:37 PM
DeyDurkie5;1136685 wrote:jesus says to be tolerant, yet says gays are to be held in contempt. Seems like a hypocrit to me.

Also seems like an asshole.

Also, I love people that live their life by the bible. Such a conformed way to live!
Too bad you entire statement is false but go ahead and show me where Jesus says and does that.
Apr 4, 2012 3:37pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 4, 2012 3:41 PM
Heretic;1136657 wrote:That's why he got nailed to the cross. They didn't put up with fucking assholes back in the day.
Since you believe in the crucifixion then you must also acknowledge the resurrection. Jesus could have said "how do you like me now" to those who nailed him to the cross but he didn't. He forgave them and they still had hope even after what they did.
Apr 4, 2012 3:41pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Apr 4, 2012 3:48 PM
The school is likely wrong, absent some showing of material disruption stemming from the shirt.
Apr 4, 2012 3:48pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Apr 4, 2012 3:51 PM
Skyhook79;1136741 wrote:Too bad you entire statement is false but go ahead and show me where Jesus says and does that.
I don't read the bible, because it's retarded.
Apr 4, 2012 3:51pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 4, 2012 4:58 PM
DeyDurkie5;1136755 wrote:I don't read the bible, because it's retarded.
Then you probably shouldn't try and speak to what Jesus teaches or says.
Apr 4, 2012 4:58pm
M

MontyBrunswick

Apr 4, 2012 5:10 PM
isadore;1136515 wrote:the school administrator brought the attention not the kid.
The kid is the one suing the school, he is screaming "attention whore" at that point.
Apr 4, 2012 5:10pm
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 4, 2012 5:13 PM
Skyhook79;1136744 wrote:Since you believe in the crucifixion then you must also acknowledge the resurrection.
Not true.
Apr 4, 2012 5:13pm