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Gay Student Sues over T-Shirt

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dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 3, 2012 9:52 PM
I don't really see the issue with this kid wearing the shirt. He isn't harming anyone and if you believe in Jesus, it is likely that he was not a homophobe; therefore his shirt is making an accurate statement.

Now do I think he should sue, not really, but it is his choice too and whether he wins or not I have no clue how strong his case would be.
Apr 3, 2012 9:52pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 9:58 PM
Automatik;1136027 wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm not offended by the shirt, but the school says he cannot wear it. So he decides to sue? Sorry, its stupid and a waste of time.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I actually agree with CC. IMO, its attention whoring.
Both of these kids are right
Freedom of Expression - Dress Code

David Griggs, a student at Elmhurst High School, challenged his school's dress code that banned "apparel depicting...symbols of violence." Griggs had been disciplined for wearing a T-shirt in support of the United States Marine Corps that featured a picture of an M-16 rifle and the Creed of the US Marines which ends: "I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me." He sued the school district in federal district court, claiming the dress code was overbroad. The court agreed with him. The judges saw no sign that the T-shirt caused disruption at school and no other student had complained about the T-shirt message. In the court’s opinion the school system policy as applied to this particular T-shirt served “no legitimate pedagogical concern.”
http://www.rightsmatter.org/cases/students/
Apr 3, 2012 9:58pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

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7,817 posts
Apr 3, 2012 10:03 PM
ccrunner609;1136047 wrote:Really? You read the bible lately?
I have read it, not recently though. Has it changed? Pretty sure Jesus always taught tolerance and love for others.
Apr 3, 2012 10:03pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 10:08 PM
ccrunner609;1136028 wrote:here you go
The t shirt does not say anything about being gay.
“
The shirt bears the image of a fish, similar to the religious symbol commonly used by Christians, painted in rainbow colors. The words “Jesus Is Not A Homophobe” appear below the fish.” Just claims Christ is not a bigot.
Not having fear or contempt for lesbians and gay men is right. (having fear or contempt for lesbians and gay men is the definition of homophobia. From Christ’s expressed love for all he would not be homophobe.
Despite your attempt to diminish it, too many gay and other children are driven to death by bullying
Apr 3, 2012 10:08pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 3, 2012 10:51 PM
dwccrew;1136065 wrote:I have read it, not recently though. Has it changed? Pretty sure Jesus always taught tolerance and love for others.
Tolerance isn't in the Bible nor did Jesus teach it. Matter of fact we are not to be tolerant of sin.
Apr 3, 2012 10:51pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:12 PM
Skyhook79;1136132 wrote:Tolerance isn't in the Bible nor did Jesus teach it. Matter of fact we are not to be tolerant of sin.

Well then Jesus is a dick.
Apr 3, 2012 11:12pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:13 PM
Skyhook79;1136132 wrote:Tolerance isn't in the Bible nor did Jesus teach it. Matter of fact we are not to be tolerant of sin.
so you think Jesus would have fear and contempt for homosexuals? If that is true he is by definition a homophobe and if he does not hold them in fear and contempt the kid's t shirt is just expressing an obvious truth.
Apr 3, 2012 11:13pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:15 PM
ccrunner609;1136141 wrote:No it just smells of it and the kid surely isnt letting the theme of it go unheard.
so it smells of gayness to oppose bullying that kills kids? I would hope he would not let that theme go unheard.
Apr 3, 2012 11:15pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:17 PM
isadore;1136184 wrote:so you think Jesus would have fear and contempt for homosexuals? If that is true he is by definition a homophobe and if he does not hold them in fear and contempt the kid's t shirt is just expressing an obvious truth.
I think Jesus fears nothing and I think he would hold homosexuality in contempt.
Apr 3, 2012 11:17pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:18 PM
justincredible;1136180 wrote:Well then Jesus is a dick.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would disagree.
Apr 3, 2012 11:18pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:19 PM
Skyhook79;1136195 wrote:I think Jesus fears nothing and I think he would hold homosexuality in contempt.
would he hold homosexuals in contempt?
Apr 3, 2012 11:19pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:21 PM
isadore;1136200 wrote:would he hold homosexuals in contempt?
He would hold the act of homosexuals in contempt and if they died as a homosexual they would be judged accordingly, imo.
Apr 3, 2012 11:21pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 3, 2012 11:26 PM
what would his attitude be toward the gay person, contemptuous or not. If it is contemptuous he would fit the definition of a homophobe.
It would seem that he who advised about casting the first stone, to be someone who would support a drive to protect gay students from bullying.
Apr 3, 2012 11:26pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Apr 4, 2012 12:02 AM
Skyhook79;1136132 wrote:Tolerance isn't in the Bible nor did Jesus teach it. Matter of fact we are not to be tolerant of sin.
And that's the point of the shirt. Anyone saying this is a positive message is missing the obvious attempt to be a shit-stirrer. There are dozens and dozens of other messages he could have chosen to express a positive message for being gay, yet he chose one that is inciteful by targeting religious beliefs that homosexuality is wrong, and in particular Christianity. It's deliberate affront on other people and their beliefs, or in other words he's guilty of the same type of behavior he is opposing for himself - hypocritical attention-whoring.

Can I wear a t-shirt that says "Jesus says gay sex belongs in Hell?"

And comparing this "me me me look at me me me" to kids protesting a war is borderline shameful.
Apr 4, 2012 12:02am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

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1,420 posts
Apr 4, 2012 12:28 AM
I'm so sick of reading about "bullying"...quit being a pussy and get ready to face the real world where you'll face a lot worse than "bullying".


That term reminds me of all the spoiled rich kids in school who instantly cried "it's not fair!" whenever they didn't get their way.

We're supposed to teach kids to get ready for the real world, not to go crying whenever something goes against them.
Apr 4, 2012 12:28am
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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9,002 posts
Apr 4, 2012 4:07 AM
ManO'War;1136277 wrote:I'm so sick of reading about "bullying"...quit being a **** and get ready to face the real world where you'll face a lot worse than "bullying".


That term reminds me of all the spoiled rich kids in school who instantly cried "it's not fair!" whenever they didn't get their way.

We're supposed to teach kids to get ready for the real world, not to go crying whenever something goes against them.

Reps
Apr 4, 2012 4:07am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 4, 2012 7:05 AM
isadore;1136017 wrote:1. The message he expressed is a positive one ...
...
The issue isn't whether the message was positive or negative. The issue is that it's a message.

There's no benefit in permitting messages to be delivered on clothes in school. That's not the purpose of school.
Apr 4, 2012 7:05am
said_aouita's avatar

said_aouita

Banned

8,532 posts
Apr 4, 2012 7:07 AM
What a pfhag.
Apr 4, 2012 7:07am
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
Apr 4, 2012 7:15 AM
isadore;1136214 wrote:what would his attitude be toward the gay person, contemptuous or not. If it is contemptuous he would fit the definition of a homophobe.
It would seem that he who advised about casting the first stone, to be someone who would support a drive to protect gay students from bullying.
My guess is that it would be similar to his attitude toward anyone living in sin and he would tell him like he told the Adulteress woman. "Go and sin no more" John 8 11-12. Jesus would advise everyone to love their neighbor as themselves and not "bully" anyone.
Apr 4, 2012 7:15am
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 7:47 AM
Con_Alma;1136373 wrote:The issue isn't whether the message was positive or negative. The issue is that it's a message.

There's no benefit in permitting messages to be delivered on clothes in school. That's not the purpose of school.
Of course it is a purpose of school. Students learn by doing, by applying. In math class they do problems based on real life situations, in industrial arts they build projects, in business classes they simulate or do their future employment, in vocational agriculture they farm, by wearing that t shirt the student is using are being involved in use of free speech and civic engagement, part of standards for schools.
Apr 4, 2012 7:47am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:00 AM
ManO'War;1136277 wrote:I'm so sick of reading about "bullying"...quit being a **** and get ready to face the real world where you'll face a lot worse than "bullying".


That term reminds me of all the spoiled rich kids in school who instantly cried "it's not fair!" whenever they didn't get their way.

We're supposed to teach kids to get ready for the real world, not to go crying whenever something goes against them.
From 4-18 school is a major part of their "real world" and if someone is making it hell for them or someone they know, they should act to protect. Hopefully in "the real world" they will not quietly accept racism, misogyny or homophobia, they will resist it as this student is.
Apr 4, 2012 8:00am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:17 AM
gut;1136247 wrote:And that's the point of the shirt. Anyone saying this is a positive message is missing the obvious attempt to be a ****-stirrer. There are dozens and dozens of other messages he could have chosen to express a positive message for being gay, yet he chose one that is inciteful by targeting religious beliefs that homosexuality is wrong, and in particular Christianity. It's deliberate affront on other people and their beliefs, or in other words he's guilty of the same type of behavior he is opposing for himself - hypocritical attention-whoring.

Can I wear a t-shirt that says "Jesus says gay sex belongs in Hell?"

And comparing this "me me me look at me me me" to kids protesting a war is borderline shameful.
The shirt bears the image of a fish, similar to the religious symbol commonly used by Christians, painted in rainbow colors. The words “Jesus Is Not A Homophobe” appear below the fish.
Principal Couch said he was told the shirt was not permitted because it was “indecent and sexual in nature.”\
Hardly there is nothing sexual or indecent in that positive message. In fact,
one of the key phrases we hear continuously from so many of these Christian opponents of homosexuality, “hate the sin, love the sinner,” love the sinner, not be afraid of him\her, not hold him\her in contempt. Based on that it is unChristian to be a homophobe and Christ is not a homophobe.
Apr 4, 2012 8:17am
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:22 AM
isadore;1136410 wrote:The shirt bears the image of a fish, similar to the religious symbol commonly used by Christians, painted in rainbow colors. The words “Jesus Is Not A Homophobe” appear below the fish.
Principal Couch said he was told the shirt was not permitted because it was “indecent and sexual in nature.”\
Hardly there is nothing sexual or indecent in that positive message. In fact,
one of the key phrases we hear continuously from so many of these Christian opponents of homosexuality, “hate the sin, love the sinner,” love the sinner, not be afraid of him\her, not hold him\her in contempt. Based on that it is unChristian to be a homophobe and Christ is not a homophobe.
What does that have to do with whether the school can ban t-shirts they deem inappropriate?
Apr 4, 2012 8:22am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:26 AM
ccrunner609;1136407 wrote:Then wear a shirt about bullying and not about Jesus. He doesnt have anything to do with it then.
Kids wear religious t shirts to school. A t shirt that said "Christ is not a racist" would not get a kid thrown out of school, even though I bet there are some racists in that school. The slogan "Christ is not a homophobe" reflects the stated opinions of the Christian opponents of homosexuality,
hate the sin, love the sinner, if Christ loves the sinner he can not be by definition a homophobe.
Apr 4, 2012 8:26am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Apr 4, 2012 8:30 AM
Skyhook79;1136415 wrote:What does that have to do with whether the school can ban t-shirts they deem inappropriate?
as has been shown on this thread, school administrators do not have an unlimited right to ban t shirts just because it might offend them in some way. It should not offend right wing Christians because it represents one of their favorite cliches, hate the sin, love the sinner making Christ not meet the definition of a homophobe.
Apr 4, 2012 8:30am