hoops23;1202337 wrote:Weeden would be the next DA if he fails... His arm is too strong to be the next McCoy.

Why do people always want to compare Weeden to DA? Besides physical build and strong arm they have nothing in common. DA was an interception machine with a 50% completion rate in college while Weeden threw completions at almost a 70% clip.

Now I do expect Weeden to throw more picks than McCoy but that's only because Weeden is more of a gunslinger and will try to stetch the field. McCoy would always opt for the safe 3-5 yard checkdown.

BR1986FB;1202340 wrote:Why do people always want to compare Weeden to DA? Besides physical build and strong arm they have nothing in common. DA was an interception machine with a 50% completion rate in college while Weeden threw completions at almost a 70% clip.

Now I do expect Weeden to throw more picks than McCoy but that's only because Weeden is more of a gunslinger and will try to stetch the field. McCoy would always opt for the safe 3-5 yard checkdown.

I wasn't comparing Weeden to DA. I was just implying that Weeden couldn't be the next McCoy if he fails because his physical attributes are superior. If Weeden failed, he'd be labeled a DA clone. Him failing would be contingent on him probably throwing a lot of picks and not making good decisions -- similar to DA.

I'm not saying he will fail. I think he'll be a pretty good rookie QB (at least I'm hoping)

Gotcha

sleeper;1202331 wrote:I'm hoping Weeden isn't the next Colt McCoy.

A B12 QB with good stats but fails miserably in the NFL.

You're gonna be disappointed

BR1986FB;1202338 wrote:Weeden has a few things going for him (strong arm, quick release, an NFL QB physical build, etc) that McCoy doesn't so the deck isn't necessarily stacked against him.

Weeden hasn't even played a damn game. Lots of busts look like they have a strong arm and an NFL build in college..it's a whole new animal in the NFL.

BR1986FB;1202340 wrote:Why do people always want to compare Weeden to DA? Besides physical build and strong arm they have nothing in common. DA was an interception machine with a 50% completion rate in college while Weeden threw completions at almost a 70% clip.

Now I do expect Weeden to throw more picks than McCoy but that's only because Weeden is more of a gunslinger and will try to stetch the field. McCoy would always opt for the safe 3-5 yard checkdown.

Weeden threw dumpoff passes 90% of the time, that is why you see 70% completion %. When he was hurried or had to make a throw on the run under distress, he was not good. That's the concern here. This is the NFL, not the shitty Big 12.

SportsAndLady;1202384 wrote:Weeden hasn't even played a damn game. Lots of busts look like they have a strong arm and an NFL build in college..it's a whole new animal in the NFL.

Just like you've essentially labeled him a bust prior to him taking a snap.

BR1986FB;1202428 wrote:Just like you've essentially labeled him a bust prior to him taking a snap.

I don't say "Weeden is gonna bust" I just say I think he will, and list my reasons. I hope he doesn't, but I've seen how he looks under distress and have zero confidence he can be an elite QB in the NFL

SportsAndLady;1202385 wrote:Weeden threw dumpoff passes 90% of the time, that is why you see 70% completion %. When he was hurried or had to make a throw on the run under distress, he was not good. That's the concern here. This is the NFL, not the shitty Big 12.

Find me a QB who IS typically good at this? Put somebody in Roethlisberger's face constantly and he looks like shit. Same goes for Tom Brady. Do you REALLY think this O-Line isn't going to be significantly improved this year? I think it will.

The "90% dumpoff passes" that you claim should work out well since 90% of the passes in the WCO are less than 25 yards, 15 yards more than McCoy could consistantly complete passes.

SportsAndLady;1202439 wrote:I don't say "Weeden is gonna bust" I just say I think he will, and list my reasons. I hope he doesn't, but I've seen how he looks under distress and have zero confidence he can be an elite QB in the NFL

I don't think anyone is saying Weeden is going to be "elite" but I think he's going to be a helluva upgrade from what we've seen since 1999.

SportsAndLady;1202385 wrote:Weeden threw dumpoff passes 90% of the time, which is why Shurmur lusts for him

FIFY

BR1986FB;1202442 wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Weeden is going to be "elite" but I think he's going to be a helluva upgrade from what we've seen since 1999.

Oh is that our philosophy now? Probably won't be elite but hes at least better than our last guy!

You don't spend a first round pick on a guy you know probably won't be an elite QB

SportsAndLady;1202464 wrote:Oh is that our philosophy now? Probably won't be elite but hes at least better than our last guy!

You don't spend a first round pick on a guy you know probably won't be an elite QB

Considering there is only about 4 elite qb's in the league and 1 was taken in the 6th round I would say a lot of teams spend there first round pick on a qb that probably won't be elite

SportsAndLady;1202385 wrote:Weeden threw dumpoff passes 90% of the time

This is bull. I watched him play 3 or 4 times this year and he threw the ball down the field a lot more than he did dumping off to running backs.

And your crap of him not throwing well when under pressure is BS too. Look at the incredible numbers he put up against Oklahoma, Texas A and M as well as Stanford last year.

I don't know how good of a pro he'll be. But I do know that he'll be a much better quarterback than Joe Flacco...and he could end up being the best in the AFC North before it's all said and done.

Footwedge;1203075 wrote:I don't know how good of a pro he'll be. But I do know that he'll be a much better quarterback than Joe Flacco...and he could end up being the best in the AFC North before it's all said and done.

LOL you're in a dream, Leo. Wake up and come back to reality. Your wife is dead, leo. Give it up and come back to reality.

I think he'll be better than Flacco & Dalton but not Roethlisberger.

BR1986FB;1203129 wrote:I think he'll be better than Flacco & Dalton but not Roethlisberger.

Not at the height of their respective careers, but perhaps in three to five years Rapistberger will be on the decline and Weeden would be better than him then.

Sonofanump;1203131 wrote:Not at the height of their respective careers, but perhaps in three to five years Rapistberger will be on the decline and Weeden would be better than him then.

I just don't think that Flacco & Dalton is setting the bar THAT high. Roethlisberger will likely end up in the HOF. I think Weeden will be good but don't see him having that kind of career.

Weeden was on Bull & Fox this afternoon. Listen here....

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/06/18/brandon-weeden-ready-to-lead-this-team-to-win-some-games/

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/18/12/Browns-building-the-2012-season-on-hope/landing_browns.html?blockID=748084&feedID=3996

LOL really?


[h=1]Patriots will have most improved D[/h][h=3]Pats, Colts among teams bound to improve after adding impact rookies[/h]Originally Published: June 19, 2012
By KC Joyner | ESPN Insider

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Stew Milne/US PresswireChandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower are expected to improve the New England Patriots' defense.

Last year, eight teams took an all-in approach toward the NFL draft, making six or more selections on one side of the ball. The [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/hou/houston-texans"]Houston Texans'[/URL] defense saw the most immediate benefits to "flooding the zone" with rookies -- Houston's defense jumped from third-worst in the NFL to second-best in one season, giving up 1,459 fewer yards than in 2010. The [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ne/new-england-patriots"]New England Patriots[/URL] and [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers"]Green Bay Packers[/URL] both devoted six picks to the other side of the ball, and their offenses surged.

This year, nine teams have taken the Texans' approach to revamping a platoon. The ultimate goal for these upgrades is to see a 0.5 yards per play bump, which would go a long way toward vaulting these teams to the top third of the league in either offensive or defensive production.

So how will these moves pan out? Let's take a look at the metrics to find out.

[h=3]Offense[/h]
1. Cleveland Browns: +563 yards

Key additions: QB Brandon Weeden, RB Trent Richardson, OT Mitchell Schwartz

The Browns fared quite poorly in the yards per attempt (YPA) metric on short passes (those thrown 10 or fewer yards downfield) last year, as Colt McCoy's abysmal 5.3 total in that category ranked 30th in the league. Weeden displayed a superb ability to raise the level of play of those around him and thus should be able to improve that number to at least the league short-pass YPA median mark of 6.3. Over 300 short passes, that would add 300 aerial yards.
In the ground game, Cleveland's run-blockers finished 14th in the good blocking percentage stat (good blocking being roughly defined as when the offense doesn't allow the defense to do anything to disrupt a rushing play), but former starting running back Peyton Hillis didn't take full advantage of the solid blocking, ranking dead last in the league with a 5.7-yard mark in the good blocking yards per attempt (GBYPA) metric. Richardson posted a 9.7 GBYPA against Alabama's toughest opponents last year, and with Cleveland's solid blocking should be able to rack up a 7.8 GBYPA in the pros (which is league average in this metric). That would add 2.1 yards per rush on approximately 125 good blocking plays, or 263 additional ground yards.

T2. Indianapolis Colts: +550 yards

Key additions: QB Andrew Luck, TE Coby Fleener, TE Dwayne Allen

Last year, the Colts' collection of tight ends managed only 158 yards on 14 vertical passes, a total that 27 individual TEs managed to top. By contrast, Stanford teammates Luck and Fleener managed 523 vertical yards last season in games against BCS-level competition; at Clemson, Allen put up another 190 vertical yards versus BCS teams. Project that trio to add 550 vertical yards, and it pushes the Colts into the 700-yard range on vertical throws, which is a significant spike.

T2. Pittsburgh Steelers: +550 yards

Key additions: G David DeCastro, T Mike Adams

Pittsburgh has perhaps the two best vertical receivers in the NFL with Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown. But Steelers quarterbacks -- mostly Ben Roethlisberger -- were never able to maximize their deep threat skills. Pittsburgh passers threw a total of just 65 stretch vertical passes (those thrown 20-plus yards downfield), a total that ranked 18th in the NFL. If the additions of DeCastro and Adams can shore up the pass blocking, Roethlisberger should be able to improve his stretch vertical attempts (passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield) total to the 80-90 range. If the Steelers gain 15 yards per attempt on those aerials, it would equal between 1,200-1,350 stretch vertical passing yards, a big leap from last year's 787 yards on deeper throws.

4. Washington Redskins: +535 yards

Key additions: QB Robert Griffin III, G Josh Leribeus, G Adam Gettis

This is never a good combination: The Redskins finished tied for 23rd last year in vertical yards per attempt (9.7), despite having a quarterback group that finished with the third-most overall attempts. RGIII should move the Redskins' VYPA up closer to the league average -- around 11 VYPA -- which adds about 260 yards over a likely 200 attempts. As the Redskins' starting QB, he should vault Washington's scramble yardage total from 58 yards, third-worst in the NFL, to around 275 yards.

5. Miami Dolphins: No improvement

Key additions: QB Ryan Tannehill, T Jonathan Martin, RB Lamar Miller

Despite the additions on offense, it's tough to see this unit improving. The Dolphins' passing game finished in a tie for 13th in YPA last year, and with a possible rookie starting quarterback and top WR Brandon Marshall in Chicago now, it's hard to see any improvement in the passing game. Minus Marshall, the Miami wideout group could be the worst in the NFL (and, no, Chad Ochocinco does not make a difference). It's possible that Martin will be phenomenal and help the Dolphins drop their league-worst 10 percent sack rate, but that won't be enough to vault this offense upward.

like_that;1204803 wrote:The Browns fared quite poorly in the yards per attempt (YPA) metric on short passes (those thrown 10 or fewer yards downfield) last year, as Colt McCoy's abysmal 5.3 total in that category ranked 30th in the league. Weeden displayed a superb ability to raise the level of play of those around him and thus should be able to improve that number to at least the league short-pass YPA median mark of 6.3. Over 300 short passes, that would add 300 aerial yards.
In the ground game, Cleveland's run-blockers finished 14th in the good blocking percentage stat (good blocking being roughly defined as when the offense doesn't allow the defense to do anything to disrupt a rushing play), but former starting running back Peyton Hillis didn't take full advantage of the solid blocking, ranking dead last in the league with a 5.7-yard mark in the good blocking yards per attempt (GBYPA) metric. Richardson posted a 9.7 GBYPA against Alabama's toughest opponents last year, and with Cleveland's solid blocking should be able to rack up a 7.8 GBYPA in the pros (which is league average in this metric). That would add 2.1 yards per rush on approximately 125 good blocking plays, or 263 additional ground yards.

This is very interesting. I mean, it's not far fetched by any means to expect 300 more passing yards out of Weeden and 250+ more rushing yards from Trent. And that would just put us in "the middle of the pack." Weeden and McCoy have completely different mentalities behind center. Weeden is much more of a gunslinger and McCoy simply tried to "manage the game" and play to not make mistakes. You absolutely can't be successful playing that type of football. McCoy may have not had weapons around him, but he allowed that to dictate his play instead of raising the level of the players around him, regardless of how awful they were. I expect Weeden to raise the performance of his teammates much more than McCoy was able to do. That aspect alone makes him significantly more valuable than our beloved Colt (sarcasm). Teams won't be able to put 9 in the box anymore, and that could be a scary ordeal for opposing defenses if TRich becomes what a great majority expect him to.

Looks like Percy Harvin wants out of Minnesota. I won't get my hopes up but man would it be nice to get him.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1204930 wrote:This is very interesting. I mean, it's not far fetched by any means to expect 300 more passing yards out of Weeden and 250+ more rushing yards from Trent. And that would just put us in "the middle of the pack." Weeden and McCoy have completely different mentalities behind center. Weeden is much more of a gunslinger and McCoy simply tried to "manage the game" and play to not make mistakes. You absolutely can't be successful playing that type of football. McCoy may have not had weapons around him, but he allowed that to dictate his play instead of raising the level of the players around him, regardless of how awful they were. I expect Weeden to raise the performance of his teammates much more than McCoy was able to do. That aspect alone makes him significantly more valuable than our beloved Colt (sarcasm). Teams won't be able to put 9 in the box anymore, and that could be a scary ordeal for opposing defenses if TRich becomes what a great majority expect him to.

Is this 300 more passing yards out of Weeden than McCoy had or 300 more passing yards out of Weeden than the Browns had?

Reason I ask is that if it's 300 more than McCoy (2700+ yards) had, that shouldn't be too tough (3000 yards) but if it's 300 more than the Browns had (McCoy/Wallace 3300 combined), that might be a stretch (3600 yards as a rook).

I'm projecting Weeden to probably throw for 3300-3400 yards as a rook.

SMITTEMS;1206031 wrote:Looks like Percy Harvin wants out of Minnesota. I won't get my hopes up but man would it be nice to get him.

I'm not high on him. He has the ability, but he always seems to be injured/migraine issues. Also I can't think of a player that QQ'd his way out of town and then ended up working out elsewhere.