royal_k;1026589 wrote:Let's face it. Shurmer isn't going anywhere. And yesterday's game is proof enough that this team is close. They will address the offense this offseason and hopefully next year the close losses will go the other way.

Well, his team is mistake prone, and doesn't know where it's supposed to be half the time. awful coaching

There's just no excuse for mismanaging the clock the way they do. That is simply unacceptable for a professional franchise. Probably the most frustrating thing about the team for me.

There has been multiple occasions of bad coaching, bad play calling, and bad mistakes by players. But, through all of that, they have been in most games. Hopefully Shurmer learns from his mistakes, as do the players. Because firing the HC after one year takes you back to square one, and the players we have will get better. And bringing in an OC can't hurt.

royal_k;1026595 wrote:There has been multiple occasions of bad coaching, bad play calling, and bad mistakes by players. But, through all of that, they have been in most games. Hopefully Shurmer learns from his mistakes, as do the players. Because firing the HC after one year takes you back to square one, and the players we have will get better. And bringing in an OC can't hurt.

Yeah, I'm not fond of watching all the "rookie" mistakes on all fronts, but I'm not looking to break in rookie coaching staffs over and over again either, players too.

ytownfootball;1026593 wrote:There's just no excuse for mismanaging the clock the way they do. That is simply unacceptable for a professional franchise. Probably the most frustrating thing about the team for me.

The QB audibled out of the called spike

bases_loaded;1026617 wrote:The QB audibled out of the called spike

Mismanaged is mismanaged. Don't care what the source is.

bases_loaded;1026617 wrote:The QB audibled out of the called spike

There are plenty of other examples that could be used this year besides that one.

ytownfootball;1026622 wrote:Mismanaged is mismanaged. Don't care what the source is.

Agreed..who gives a shit how it happened. Point is it happened.

Its like the babysitter making excuses for losing the kid by saying the kid left on his own...who cares, point is you were responsible for the kid and let him leave.

BR1986FB;1026545 wrote:You guys might think I'm nuts but I think this team can play with ANYONE on ANY Sunday. Imagine how much better these guys would be if they had a "good" QB? Wallace has shown that he's nothing more than a backup but I gotta believe that had #12 been under center yesterday things would've gotten out of hand quickly and this game doesn't end up this close.

I'm also firmly in the camp of "bring Hillis back" but at a reasonable cost. I think that bridge may have been burnt though. When used PROPERLY (and when he stays HEALTHY), Hillis gives the QB a lot of relief and he'd be perfect as a security blanket for an RG3 or, dare I say, Luck until they can get their feet under them.

Not really that crazy. For the most part the defense has kept this team in most of the games. The defense is VERY young and as long as they stay healthy, I can only see them getting better with an actual off season and full season under their belt now. Give the team a competent offense and you will see more wins. I can see them being like the Texans down the line.

I don't think the Browns/Hillis have burned bridges yet. I truly believe they will get it done. I think we need to boycott the Cleveland media, because to me they completely have lost their credibility. I think they made out the Hillis situation worse than it really is. A lot of these Cleveland journalists just need to retire. They are just jaded from losing seasons, and it reflects with their writing. It's pretty annoying. It's like a bunch of "iggy prides" writing for the media.

wes_mantooth;1026547 wrote:I am ok with Hillis, I see him as serviceable.

I do not want to see them draft Richardson.

This. Hilis runs like he has the past 3 games, the Browns will be in a lot of games. Staying in the game is half the battle, closing it out is major. Look at the Bengals, all of their wins have been very close, they could have been starting at 4 win season as well. Their defense did their job to keep the team in every game, and the offense has done just enough to close out 9 wins. You can say that about plenty of the Wildcard teams too.

ytownfootball;1026550 wrote:The fact is that feature backs (not named Peterson) are not exactly worth the price given the current state of the league (pass happy, strongly officiated against defense). Hillis while decent is expendable if the price is too high.

Exactly, and look where AP is now. His ACL is torn, and he might not even be back next season. He is the highest paid RB in the league, and Minny now has had 2 losing seasons in a row. Richardson could turn out to be the best back in the division/conference/league/all time, but it still doesn't mean it will equate to winning seasons. Barry Sanders is considered one of the greatest backs of all time (behind JB of course), yet if I am not mistaken I don't believe he ever won a playoff game.

As I have said numerous times. If the Browns don't waste their top 4 pick on Richardson, he will most likely fall to the 20-32 range. Mark it down. I really don't think Holmgren or Heckert will be that stupid to draft him that high.

BR1986FB;1026563 wrote:He slipped on that one run and had a lot of real estate ahead of him. Also that screen pass that Wallace threw off his back foot would've been a 1st down.

As an FYI. If Jax beats Indy and Minnesota beats Chicago (very possible), the Browns would likely slide into the #3 slot in the draft. This would leave 1) Indy 2) St Louis 3) Cleveland.

This would be a much better position than 4 for trade reasons, or possibly drafting RGIII.

royal_k;1026589 wrote:Let's face it. Shurmer isn't going anywhere. And yesterday's game is proof enough that this team is close. They will address the offense this offseason and hopefully next year the close losses will go the other way.

I sure hope so. They say 5-6 plays throughout a game determines the outcome of the game. The browns are not making those 5-6 plays, whether it's simply discipline or execution. I put that on the coach, sorry. Classic example to start of the season is the defense sleeping when the Bengals snapped the ball on them. Just showed a lack of discipline, and why didn't shurmur call a fucking time out? That play honestly set the tone for the season. He better learn how to solve that problem, because if they do not improve next year, he is definitely gone.

ytownfootball;1026622 wrote:Mismanaged is mismanaged. Don't care what the source is.

Agreed. As I said earlier, I honestly would have benched Wallace, to make a point to the whole team that you listen to the coach. Patty didn't even look that pissed off after Wallace did that.

just seen the browns pittsburgh game got flexed to 4:15. lemme try and find a link.

Im not buying into the browns being able to hang with anybody..lets face it, we suck and teams don't get up to play the Browns. They come out flat because they can..then they realize they gotta win so they stomp them.

Happens every year, the Browns suck then at the end of the year they look pretty good to give false hope to the fans and organization.

If the ravens and Steelers were told they will not make the playoffs if they don't beat the Browns 45-0, they would absolutely win 45-0.

SportsAndLady;1026639 wrote:Im not buying into the browns being able to hang with anybody..lets face it, we suck and teams don't get up to play the Browns. They come out flat because they can..then they realize they gotta win so they stomp them.

Happens every year, the Browns suck then at the end of the year they look pretty good to give false hope to the fans and organization.

If the ravens and Steelers were told they will not make the playoffs if they don't beat the Browns 45-0, they would absolutely win 45-0.

Im not saying they can hang with anyone, but the defense kept most games competitive THROUGHOUT the year, not just these final games.

SportsAndLady;1026572 wrote:Lol yeah you're fuckin crazy

But im used to it now, u just gotta get your daily bash McCoy fix in..understandable

They have now played 4 games against division rivals that have come down to the wire. A good QB likely helps them win 2 to 3 of those games. As was mentioned, they are also mistake prone.

Say what you want about Shurmur's playcalling (and some of it HAS been stupid) but is it that he is so bad at calling plays, he's limited because of the lack of talent at QB or a little of both? I bet he'd open things up down the field a bit more with a legit QB. Hell, Wallace isn't even "legit" but his arm strength (over McCoy's) allows them to try different things.

BR1986FB;1026648 wrote:They have now played 4 games against division rivals that have come down to the wire. A good QB likely helps them win 2 to 3 of those games. As was mentioned, they are also mistake prone.

Say what you want about Shurmur's playcalling (and some of it HAS been stupid) but is it that he is so bad at calling plays, he's limited because of the lack of talent at QB or a little of both? I bet he'd open things up down the field a bit more with a legit QB. Hell, Wallace isn't even "legit" but his arm strength (over McCoy's) allows them to try different things.

No, Shurmur is just a disphit. There is no hiding that.

hes def had his ups and downs, mostly downs this year. but im rooting for the guy. tired of seeing coach after coach. lets snag his qb this year, luck or rgIII, get a wide out in the draft and maybe coltson, bowe, or jackson and see what happens. this offense could go from shit to pretty decent with a few pieces.

BR1986FB;1026648 wrote:They have now played 4 games against division rivals that have come down to the wire. A good QB likely helps them win 2 to 3 of those games. As was mentioned, they are also mistake prone.

Say what you want about Shurmur's playcalling (and some of it HAS been stupid) but is it that he is so bad at calling plays, he's limited because of the lack of talent at QB or a little of both? I bet he'd open things up down the field a bit more with a legit QB. Hell, Wallace isn't even "legit" but his arm strength (over McCoy's) allows them to try different things.

Like I said..if the Steelers or ravens wanted to beat us 45-0 they could...teams dont get up playing against the Browns thy know they can take it easy and still get the W.

Saying "we've been in all the games" is so stupid. Lots of shitty teams are in games, doesn't mean they're not shitty. Difference between those teams and the browns is they usually have a winning record In the next couple seasons...browns don't. Just same old same old.

There's no team in the NFL that can name their score. And I'm not buying the Ravens weren't up for that game yesterday with playoff seeding on the line.

SportsAndLady;1026662 wrote:Like I said..if the Steelers or ravens wanted to beat us 45-0 they could...teams dont get up playing against the Browns thy know they can take it easy and still get the W.

Saying "we've been in all the games" is so stupid. Lots of shitty teams are in games, doesn't mean they're not shitty. Difference between those teams and the browns is they usually have a winning record In the next couple seasons...browns don't. Just same old same old.

Don't let that ghey ass avatar influence your perception of reality (I'm guilty of having a jaded response to you because of it so take this fwiw:laugh but whether or not teams "get up for you" doesn't change the fact that they're still in games. Their D has kept them in games that they would have been completely out of given the pathetic nature of the offense. Were the Browns not so completely anemic moving the ball, for a variety of reasons they would likely have a few more games in the win column.

like_that;1026637 wrote: Exactly, and look where AP is now. His ACL is torn, and he might not even be back next season. He is the highest paid RB in the league, and Minny now has had 2 losing seasons in a row. Richardson could turn out to be the best back in the division/conference/league/all time, but it still doesn't mean it will equate to winning seasons. Barry Sanders is considered one of the greatest backs of all time (behind JB of course), yet if I am not mistaken I don't believe he ever won a playoff game.










Agreed. As I said earlier, I honestly would have benched Wallace, to make a point to the whole team that you listen to the coach. Patty didn't even look that pissed off after Wallace did that.

RB's are going to see a steep decline in salary for various reasons, short shelf life, officiating, focus on passing just to name a few. I don't like the trend but short term I doubt this will change, teams will find other ways to make up their production at a lower cost.

Wallace would have been and should have been effin placed on waivers, this wasn't Bernie calling off Bill and going for a TD, it's Seneca fucking Wallace blowing points...I'll rep you later I'm out for the day lol.

royal_k;1026665 wrote:There's no team in the NFL that can name their score. And I'm not buying the Ravens weren't up for that game yesterday with playoff seeding on the line.

All they needed to do was win..they don't need to get up to beat the Browns.

Its Like a week off for them..they can show up and coast to a win..and Browns fans think that's them being in games, no that's the ravens coasting to a win

SportsAndLady;1026696 wrote:All they needed to do was win..they don't need to get up to beat the Browns.

Its Like a week off for them..they can show up and coast to a win..and Browns fans think that's them being in games, no that's the ravens coasting to a win

im willing to bet if we had a legit qb we win yesterday. and def a few other games. secna is nothing special, and he was hitting recievers, or atleast finding.

BR1986FB;1026648 wrote:They have now played 4 games against division rivals that have come down to the wire. A good QB likely helps them win 2 to 3 of those games. As was mentioned, they are also mistake prone.

Say what you want about Shurmur's playcalling (and some of it HAS been stupid) but is it that he is so bad at calling plays, he's limited because of the lack of talent at QB or a little of both? I bet he'd open things up down the field a bit more with a legit QB. Hell, Wallace isn't even "legit" but his arm strength (over McCoy's) allows them to try different things.

we get it br, you don't like the qbs...but to say shurmur isn't "opening up the playcalling" is just dumb..he just isn't a good signal caller. he had bradford, and he finished in the bottom ten of hte league. His entire play calling career has been bottom ten of the league for offense. he's just awful, regardless if you have bauserman or brady back there.

shook_17;1026699 wrote:im willing to bet if we had a legit qb we win yesterday. and def a few other games. secna is nothing special, and he was hitting recievers, or atleast finding.

So we were gonna go into Baltimore and win if we just had a legit qb? Excuse me while I LOL

DeyDurkie5;1026702 wrote:we get it br, you don't like the qbs...but to say shurmur isn't "opening up the playcalling" is just dumb..he just isn't a good signal caller. he had bradford, and he finished in the bottom ten of hte league. His entire play calling career has been bottom ten of the league for offense. he's just awful, regardless if you have bauserman or brady back there.

Yet last year was considered a "good" year for Bradford. Now Shurmur's gone and he's suddenly taken a step back?

Look, I think Shurmur has made some huge mistakes in his rookie season but I have to wonder if not taking shots at the end zone and settling for FG's, in some cases, is because he has no confidence in his QB in the red zone.

As I've said before, the team DOES lack weapons but when those weapons ARE on the roster, I have NO confidence that the QB to take this team to a Super Bowl is currently on the roster. And, yes...I am talking "Super Bowl" because that's the end result. Anything less is pissing in the wind.

The days of "Trent Dilfer/winning with a running game/shutdown defense" are gone. The teams that won that way (Bears, Ravens, Bucs) had rare, once in a generation, defenses. Look at the past decade and see how many teams have won WITHOUT an elite/upper tier QB. There's ONE. It's not common. It's a passing league and neither QB on this team instills confidence that they can lead this team to a Super Bowl, let alone come from behind when there's a 14 point deficit in a regular season game.

SportsAndLady;1026709 wrote:So we were gonna go into Baltimore and win if we just had a legit qb? Excuse me while I LOL

They would've against Pittsburgh.