Week 16: Cleveland Browns @ Baltimore Ravens

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SportsAndLady

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Dec 25, 2011 3:01 PM
BR1986FB;1026711 wrote:They would've against Pittsburgh.

The way Pittsburgh was playing sure..but if we had a legit qb they would have been more into that game, thus played better
Dec 25, 2011 3:01pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 3:08 PM
SportsAndLady;1026715 wrote:The way Pittsburgh was playing sure..but if we had a legit qb they would have been more into that game, thus played better
You don't know that. Teams get up & down on a weekly basis. You can't say a team is "playing down to their competition" all of the time. Is it possible that the Browns were "playing a fundamentally sound game?" That's why they say "any given Sunday." Hell, even Mangini's crew beat New England/New Orleans and almost the Jets.
Dec 25, 2011 3:08pm
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Dec 25, 2011 4:15 PM
BR1986FB;1026711 wrote:They would've against Pittsburgh.
They also would have won against Pittsburgh if we just called a damn QB sneak at the damn inch line instead of some slowly developing hand off.

A new QB isn't going to be some automatic cure all and make the Browns a playoff team BR. If another QB comes in and has success with these young players, it is because the WRs will have developed and can actually catch the ball. And I dont want to hear "there are so many drops because the ball doesnt hit him in the chest". These are NFL WRs, if you cant adjust to the damn ball or make a half way decent catch, you dont belong in the NFL. If you draft another QB, you are just starting over, setting the franchise back more. It still amazes me how every post about the Browns troubles have to do with the QB, while you ignore all of the other teams needs.

I mean..you are even going to the point of defending Shurmur(lol) by blaming it on the QB. What limitations did the QB have as a passer that Shurmur tried that stupid slow developing handoff at the inch line instead of a qb sneak or a quick dive?

And then, you even said yourself that Colt could be traded to the Colts to potentially be the QB in waiting. That would mean you think he can be successful or the Colts administration is stupid (which isnt the case)... I just dont get it.
Dec 25, 2011 4:15pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:35 PM
Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy might be good QB somewhere, but not in AFC North Division, executive says: Terry Pluto's Talkin'

Published: Saturday, December 24, 2011, 11:30 PM

[LEFT] By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
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View full size[RIGHT]Joshua Gunter, The Plain Dealer[/RIGHT]
An AFC executive says the Browns need a big quarterback with a strong arm to succeed in the AFC North, and Colt McCoy doesn't fit that bill.

ABOUT THE BROWNS . . .

I talked to an AFC executive whose team plays the Browns in some seasons.

"What's their problem?" I asked.

He said: "They have put together a decent defense. I really like the kid from Pitt [Jabaal Sheard]. He can be a big-time player. [Phil] Taylor and [Ahtyba] Rubin are good tackles, but they desperately need another defensive end. Get a guy who is pretty good over there, and Sheard can really make an impact. [Joe] Haden, [T.J.]Ward, and [D'Qwell] Jackson are very good. Our coaches really love Jackson."

"So it's not defense?" I asked.

"They can always get better, especially at linebacker," he said. "But what division do the Browns play in?"

"The AFC North," I said.

"Who are the quarterbacks?" he asked.

"Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and . . ."

"And your guy," he said. "Does Colt [McCoy] even come close to comparing with them? Here's the problem -- you play six games against those teams, often in bad weather. I think you need a quarterback who is physically big with a strong arm."

"So you don't like McCoy," I said.

"Not in that division," he said. "I'm not saying it's easy to find one. Think of all the quarterbacks that Baltimore went through before Flacco -- [Kyle] Boller, [Trent] Dilfer, [Tony] Banks, [Steve] McNair, [Elvis] Grbac . . . I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. Ben put Pittsburgh on the map for the Super Bowl. Dalton can play. Our coaches think Seneca [Wallace] is tougher to defend [than McCoy] because he's more mobile, but he's a backup. For years, the Browns have had a terrible offense and a quarterback problem. They usually go together."

"The Browns do have two first-round picks," I said.

"That can help them get a quarterback," he said. "But you have to be right. If they aren't sure [on a quarterback], then take two players who can really make an impact. Look at what [wide receiver A.J.] Green has done for the Bengals. When you play the Browns, you set your defense to stop [Peyton] Hillis. You can have a safety follow him, because no one in the passing game [quarterback or receivers] worries you."

"So if you were the Browns, you'd be looking for a quarterback," I said.

"In that division, they have no other choice," he said. "But don't force it. That is a team that needs impact players at a lot of positions."

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy

[/LEFT]
Dec 25, 2011 4:35pm
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ytownfootball

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Dec 25, 2011 4:37 PM
Pick6;1026733 wrote:
A new QB isn't going to be some automatic cure all and make the Browns a playoff team BR. If another QB comes in and has success with these young players, it is because the WRs will have developed and can actually catch the ball. And I dont want to hear "there are so many drops because the ball doesnt hit him in the chest". These are NFL WRs, if you cant adjust to the damn ball or make a half way decent catch, you dont belong in the NFL. If you draft another QB, you are just starting over, setting the franchise back more. It still amazes me how every post about the Browns troubles have to do with the QB, while you ignore all of the other teams needs.
Equally, you can't say that another qb WOULDN'T make things better. Players rise to the occasion and boost their performance based on the confidence they have in their QB, we've heard in a million times. Maybe Colt just doesn't have what inspires those around him yet or maybe never.. But to say sit around and maybe wait for player to develop, or maybe wait for Colt to become a leader that inspires those around him is equally "stupid".
Dec 25, 2011 4:37pm
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Pick6

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Dec 25, 2011 4:40 PM
ytownfootball;1026736 wrote:Equally, you can't say that another qb WOULDN'T make things better. Players rise to the occasion and boost their performance based on the confidence they have in their QB, we've heard in a million times. Maybe Colt just doesn't have what inspires those around him yet or maybe never.. But to say sit around and maybe wait for player to develop, or maybe wait for Colt to become a leader that inspires those around him is equally "stupid".
I've never said Colt is the guy. I'm in the party that thinks he shouldn't be judged until he has some weapons to work with.



I liked the last line of PLuto's article:
"But don't force it. That is a team that needs impact players at a lot of positions."
Dec 25, 2011 4:40pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:42 PM
Pick6;1026733 wrote: If you draft another QB, you are just starting over, setting the franchise back more. It still amazes me how every post about the Browns troubles have to do with the QB, while you ignore all of the other teams needs.
Really? Tell that to Cam Newton & Andy Dalton. Drafting a QB set their franchises back. :rolleyes: How can you set the franchise BACK when it's already at "rock bottom" at the QB position? Read the article I posted above. That's coming from an NFL exec, not me.

And you might want to read a few more of my posts before making that "you ignore all of the other team needs" comment. I've said they need an upgrade in talent at the receiver position, O-Line, etc but more so at the QB position.
Dec 25, 2011 4:42pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:44 PM
Pick6;1026738 wrote:
I liked the last line of PLuto's article:
"But don't force it. That is a team that needs impact players at a lot of positions."
I liked this one even more...[LEFT]"In that division, they have no other choice,"[/LEFT]
Dec 25, 2011 4:44pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

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Dec 25, 2011 4:46 PM
BR1986FB;1026739 wrote:Really? Tell that to Cam Newton & Andy Dalton. Drafting a QB set their franchises back. :rolleyes: How can you set the franchise BACK when it's already at "rock bottom" at the QB position? Read the article I posted above. That's coming from an NFL exec, not me.

And you might want to read a few more of my posts before making that "you ignore all of the other team needs" comment. I've said they need an upgrade in talent at the receiver position, O-Line, etc but more so at the QB position.
Cam Newton has a great offensive line, two good running backs who have been healthy all season, two above average tight ends, two WRs who can stretch the field, and a top 5 WR in the NFL when healthy.

Dalton has a WR that the Bengals just used a #4 overall pick on. Dalton was also a second round pick. They also have a talented young group of WRs to go along with Green. Not to mention, the Bengals have benefited from having one of the easiest schedules in the NFL this season.
Dec 25, 2011 4:46pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:48 PM
ytownfootball;1026736 wrote: But to say sit around and maybe wait for player to develop, or maybe wait for Colt to become a leader that inspires those around him is equally "stupid".
Exactly. So Holmgren/Heckert is supposed to "wish/pray" that McCoy develops into a winner in this division (hasn't won yet)? How long do we give him? Seven years of suffering ala Alex Smith? If you HAVE the chance to get an elite QB (Luck or feel that RG3 is) you DO IT. You don't sit around and wait. (these comments aren't directed at you).

And to get back to that "set the franchise back comment", how would it be "setting the franchise back" if Luck & RG3 are already beeter than McCoy and likely do better in their rookie season?

So sick & tired of people who want to "settle" for mediocrity.
Dec 25, 2011 4:48pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:50 PM
Pick6;1026742 wrote:Cam Newton has a great offensive line, two good running backs who have been healthy all season, two above average tight ends, two WRs who can stretch the field, and a top 5 WR in the NFL when healthy.

Dalton has a WR that the Bengals just used a #4 overall pick on. Dalton was also a second round pick. They also have a talented young group of WRs to go along with Green. Not to mention, the Bengals have benefited from having one of the easiest schedules in the NFL this season.
Doesn't matter "what they have." They are ROOKIES. McCoy has over 20 games under his belt and he's regressed. The Browns could have that next year too and McCoy STILL won't perform at the level of a Luck or RG3.
Dec 25, 2011 4:50pm
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Pick6

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Dec 25, 2011 4:51 PM
BR1986FB;1026741 wrote:I liked this one even more...[LEFT]"In that division, they have no other choice,"[/LEFT]
I also didnt buy the reasons they thought Colt didnt belong. Joe Flacco doesnt deserve any credit for the Ravens being good. Dalton hasn't beaten anyone in the division besides the Browns. Ben's success is the only reason they use that example. They use the word "big" so you can't use the word "tough" which would also apply to McCoy. Big Ben doesnt have success because he is big. Its because he is tough. Big Ben is tough, just like McCoy.
Dec 25, 2011 4:51pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 25, 2011 4:57 PM
Pick6;1026746 wrote:I also didnt buy the reasons they thought Colt didnt belong. Joe Flacco doesnt deserve any credit for the Ravens being good. Dalton hasn't beaten anyone in the division besides the Browns. Ben's success is the only reason they use that example. They use the word "big" so you can't use the word "tough" which would also apply to McCoy. Big Ben doesnt have success because he is big. Its because he is tough. Big Ben is tough, just like McCoy.
Flacco can make all of the throws and has an arm you HAVE to respect, McCoy doesn't. Put Flacco's arm/size on McCoy and we don't have this argument. I think McCoy might be more cerebral than Flacco but doesn't have the physical tools.

And no, "big" doesn't equal "tough." Roethlisberger is physically tough but if you think his size (friggin offensive lineman who throws...lol) doesn't allow him to shed sacks & extend plays, you've obviously never watched him. McCoy gets hit and he crumbles like a house of cards. He looks like a little boy out there.
Dec 25, 2011 4:57pm
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SportsAndLady

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Dec 25, 2011 6:50 PM
I can't take br's opinion on the qb situation anymore lol just gonna ignore that..if you seriously can't agree with "give weapons to McCoy then judge him" then idk what to tell you. You act like drafting rg3 is gonna save this franchise.

And you know what's gonna happen? They're gonna draft rg3 and a game breaking wr then lick up colston or some free agent wr and the offense is gonna be good...then br will say I told you McCoy was a bum!!!

Watch
Dec 25, 2011 6:50pm
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like_that

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Dec 25, 2011 8:06 PM
SportsAndLady;1026814 wrote:I can't take br's opinion on the qb situation anymore lol just gonna ignore that..if you seriously can't agree with "give weapons to McCoy then judge him" then idk what to tell you. You act like drafting rg3 is gonna save this franchise.

And you know what's gonna happen? They're gonna draft rg3 and a game breaking wr then lick up colston or some free agent wr and the offense is gonna be good...then br will say I told you McCoy was a bum!!!

Watch
If the Browns are winning games and going to the playoffs, are you really going to give a shit lol? I can't imagine how happy these threads will be if/when the Browns turn it around.
Dec 25, 2011 8:06pm
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SportsAndLady

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Dec 25, 2011 8:13 PM
like_that;1026856 wrote:If the Browns are winning games and going to the playoffs, are you really going to give a **** lol? I can't imagine how happy these threads will be if/when the Browns turn it around.

No I wont...just saying how stupid it is to say all this team needs is a qb...cuz without the weapons they'll never be a good team.
Dec 25, 2011 8:13pm
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Skyhook79

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Dec 25, 2011 11:21 PM
SportsAndLady;1026814 wrote:I can't take br's opinion on the qb situation anymore lol just gonna ignore that..if you seriously can't agree with "give weapons to McCoy then judge him" then idk what to tell you. You act like drafting rg3 is gonna save this franchise.

And you know what's gonna happen? They're gonna draft rg3 and a game breaking wr then lick up colston or some free agent wr and the offense is gonna be good...then br will say I told you McCoy was a bum!!!

Watch
McCoy sucks and I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.
Dec 25, 2011 11:21pm
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like_that

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Dec 25, 2011 11:24 PM
trollhook79;1027060 wrote:Nothing to see here, just trolling.
K.
Dec 25, 2011 11:24pm
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hoops23

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Dec 25, 2011 11:52 PM
I was a Colt backer, I thought he deserved a chance. IMO, I've now seen enough. He's got the mental attributes, but we're fooling ourselves if we think he has the physical attributes. He's 6'1 and has no deep ball accuracy. He can't make all the throws that you need to make in the AFC North.

The offense, while still bland, has looked a bit better with Wallace under the helm.

IMO, The Browns could target some mid round guys, like Kirk Cousins, who's 6'3'' and can make all the throws you need.

This would allow them to focus on playmakers with the first few picks. Get a WR, DL/LB, and RB (if needed) with your first 3 picks. Cousins is projected in the 4th round I believe.

I wouldn't bee upset if the Browns took RGIII, however. He has a wonderful deep ball and is a natural playmaker. He's much more physically gifted than Colt.

I like the Physical attributes that Landry Jones brings, but I'm just not sure if he's going to be a good NFL QB, and he's likely a 1st round pick. If we went WR with our first pick, I wouldn't be mad using our 2nd 1st rd pick on him if he's available.

I'm also fine with the coaching staff. Some things need adjusted, but I'll chalk it up to a learning curve and lack of talent. We need stability more than anything.

Just some random/unorganized thoughts on some of these points being talked about.
Dec 25, 2011 11:52pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 26, 2011 7:05 AM
SportsAndLady;1026860 wrote:No I wont...just saying how stupid it is to say all this team needs is a qb...cuz without the weapons they'll never be a good team.
You read what you WANT to read. I've said all along that they NEED weapons besides a QB. Using those weapons WITH McCoy would be a waste.

Heckert has already said they CAN 'judge him" with the current talent he has around him. They don't "owe" Colt McCoy anything but you McCoy "lovers" (and don't give me this shit you have no "bias" because you do) seem to think they owe him the world or an Alex Smith 7 year "free pass."

I want them to accelerate the process NOW while you "wish & pray" that a Ford Pinto (Colt McCoy) turns into a Mercedes.
Dec 26, 2011 7:05am
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DeyDurkie5

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Dec 26, 2011 8:05 AM
McCoy hasn't looked good. But with no weapons, and barkley returning, I don't want them using a QB on their first 3 picks. They could get a FA qb if they don't like mccoy. Get weapons, and the qb situation will fall into place.
Dec 26, 2011 8:05am
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Dec 26, 2011 9:12 AM
BR1986FB;1027175 wrote:You read what you WANT to read. I've said all along that they NEED weapons besides a QB. Using those weapons WITH McCoy would be a waste.

Heckert has already said they CAN 'judge him" with the current talent he has around him. They don't "owe" Colt McCoy anything but you McCoy "lovers" (and don't give me this **** you have no "bias" because you do) seem to think they owe him the world or an Alex Smith 7 year "free pass."

I want them to accelerate the process NOW while you "wish & pray" that a Ford Pinto (Colt McCoy) turns into a Mercedes.

You say I read what I want to read then say im a McCoy lover LOL did u not read the ten times in Browns threads I've said I have no judgment on McCoy until I see actual receivers around him?

My good friend here in Jersey is a huge McCoy fan cuz he went to Texas, and I literally tell him everyday that im not sold on McCoy. Why? Because I.just wanna see actual playmakers around our qb for once instead of just recycling ANOTHER qb with a first round pick. I want ONE more year with our qb and im some terrible person with poor football knowledge? Yaaaaa OK.
Dec 26, 2011 9:12am
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Footwedge

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Dec 26, 2011 11:17 AM
BR1986FB;1026753 wrote:Flacco can make all of the throws and has an arm you HAVE to respect, McCoy doesn't. Put Flacco's arm/size on McCoy and we don't have this argument. I think McCoy might be more cerebral than Flacco but doesn't have the physical tools.

And no, "big" doesn't equal "tough." Roethlisberger is physically tough but if you think his size (friggin offensive lineman who throws...lol) doesn't allow him to shed sacks & extend plays, you've obviously never watched him. McCoy gets hit and he crumbles like a house of cards. He looks like a little boy out there.
Flacco is a mediocre quarterback. What he has going for him..an outstanding supporting cast. He has his moments....but he has been God awful in several games this season.

I don't think Baltimore will ever win a Super Bowl with Flacco. You have to have your quarterback play well for at least 3 straight games to win it. Did you watch the Raven/Charger game last week? McCoy has never had a game that bad....never.
Dec 26, 2011 11:17am
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Pick6

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Dec 26, 2011 11:22 AM
BR1986FB;1027175 wrote:You read what you WANT to read. I've said all along that they NEED weapons besides a QB. Using those weapons WITH McCoy would be a waste.

Heckert has already said they CAN 'judge him" with the current talent he has around him. They don't "owe" Colt McCoy anything but you McCoy "lovers" (and don't give me this shit you have no "bias" because you do) seem to think they owe him the world or an Alex Smith 7 year "free pass."

I want them to accelerate the process NOW while you "wish & pray" that a Ford Pinto (Colt McCoy) turns into a Mercedes.
I have no bias for McCoy. I just think using a 1st pick or giving away your whole draft to move up 2 spots to get a QB isn't smart. Remember the Browns want to build through the draft. You can't truly build if you are trading away your quality picks. I wouldn't mind drafting Luck if they fell to them, because I think he is a can't miss. RGIII is too much of a wild card IMO. I don't mind the Browns drafting QB in a later round, signing a FA, or trading for a back up they think has potential (which they're are quite a few out there).

However, I still stand by my opinion that no quarterback(McCoy or not) will be successful here unless they have some weapons.That's why I think the first pick should be on Blackmon. Let's remember, this is Cleveland. You aren't going to get any decent WRs to come here as a FA. These guys are like the superstars of the NBA. Yes, we probably have the $$ to make them interested, from from what I have seen from Heckert/Holmgren so far is that they aren't willing to spend it.

Bottom line, I want what is best for the franchise, and I feel going in that direction is best. Not because I have some love for McCoy, even though I like him, dont see how you can't really.
Dec 26, 2011 11:22am
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Skyhook79

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Dec 26, 2011 11:50 AM
SportsAndLady;1027209 wrote:You say I read what I want to read then say im a McCoy lover LOL did u not read the ten times in Browns threads I've said I have no judgment on McCoy until I see actual receivers around him?

My good friend here in Jersey is a huge McCoy fan cuz he went to Texas, and I literally tell him everyday that im not sold on McCoy. Why? Because I.just wanna see actual playmakers around our qb for once instead of just recycling ANOTHER qb with a first round pick. I want ONE more year with our qb and im some terrible person with poor football knowledge? Yaaaaa OK.
Good recievers are not going to improve McCoy's arm strength or his poor decisions but I do think it is cute that you want 1 more year with him.
Dec 26, 2011 11:50am