Parochial schools Make up 9%...

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1_beast's avatar

1_beast

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5,642 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:03 AM
Think what you will...there is your opinion...and then there is the TRUTH. ;)
Dec 5, 2010 12:03am
nc52's avatar

nc52

and he comes in the night

419 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:14 AM
St Paris Graham??????????????? ring a bell???????? PUBLIC SCHOOL. Why do public schools have to be a member of the OHSAA?
Dec 5, 2010 12:14am
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

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5,642 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:16 AM
Yes it does! So does Wadsorth and Perry. However, The 3 combined do not have as many wrestling CHAMPIONSHIP Team Titles as......St ED
Dec 5, 2010 12:16am
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TwinTurbo

Junior Member

23 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:30 AM
well since your so certain that all these private schools recruit, why dont you produce the evidence that you are so sure of and turn them in to the ohsaa. Thats right you cant... but its easy to sit on here and whine and cry sipping from your juice box because u think its not fair, instead of putting your money where your mouth is and produce the evidence.

Its funny a public school that was caught recruiting within the last 2 years just finished second in div 2 yesterday, funny i dont here you crying about them. funny how it doesnt work both ways. but i suppose you'll have that when you people have a vendetta and can sit online and fling accusations without proof. Great roles models for kids u are. Breeding a whole new generation of people who whine and cry when things dont go there way saying its not fair... well lifes not fair get over it.
Dec 5, 2010 12:30am
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

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5,642 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:33 AM
EC just got busted...hmmmm ....and who did they eliminate from the playoffs? What was the penalty? NICE!
Dec 5, 2010 12:33am
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TwinTurbo

Junior Member

23 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:38 AM
and then were subsequently eliminated by a public school.
Dec 5, 2010 12:38am
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

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5,642 posts
Dec 5, 2010 12:40 AM
TwinTurbo;588065 wrote:and then were subsequently eliminated by a public school.

I know...I was there...How sweet it was!

Fact is..you asked me to name someone....i did. I asked who they eliminated and what was the penalty?

I guess that was too tough to answer.
Dec 5, 2010 12:40am
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TwinTurbo

Junior Member

23 posts
Dec 5, 2010 1:00 AM
they eliminated huron, and if i remember correctly the punishment was like 3 years probation, and a 2500 fine and a couple other restrictions which i cant remember offhand. And i also showed u an example that publics do it too ( trotwood-Madison). So if i go by your logic, since one was caught doing it they all must be doing it
Dec 5, 2010 1:00am
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thereddragin

Senior Member

126 posts
Dec 5, 2010 8:41 AM
sherm03;587842 wrote:Wow...someone else who just likes to present a skewed side of the facts.

OK...one more time, just for ~U~...

Now that St. Ed and Maple Heights won, we have two new state champions. Now, 35 private schools have won 97 titles. And now, 66 public schools have now won 100 titles. There are 715 teams in Ohio that field football teams. I'll just go ahead and do the math for you.

35/715 teams have won 97/197 titles. So that means that 4.9% of the schools account for 49.24% of the titles. When you hear that stat by itself...it sure seems staggering. That is, until you look at the other side of the coin...
66/715 teams have won 100/197 titles. So that means that 9.2% of all the schools account for 50.76% of the titles. That stat sounds bad too right. If I were to sit here and say, "Wow, when you look at the public champions....9.2% of all the teams have won OVER half the titles." it would sound really bad and shed a bad light on the public schools. But I don't do that because that would be skewing the facts...as you tried to do in that first post there.

So let's look at the big picture. We have 101 teams...both private and public...that have won state championships. That means that 14.13% of all Ohio football playing schools have won 100% of the titles!

So how about those 'numbers' for you? Kind of doesn't seem so bad when you actually look at the whole picture and not just one skewed stat.

But I've been here long enough. I know what's going to happen. These stats will be completely ignored by those that hate private schools. And we'll have 100+ posts about how the privates have an unfair advantage and how they cheat and recruit.

I did my part...cue skank and thinthick...

Let me start saying i'm for keeping things teh way they are now. however the real problem doesn't contain D123, its D456 the private schools in those divisions are so far ahead of the public schools it does make cause for concern especially in recent years. DSJ winning 77-7 that is a shame... how many players from this years DSJ team are going to go to college for football... prolly more than most D6 schools have had in the entire existance of the shool.
Dec 5, 2010 8:41am
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:04 AM
If we had a multiplier and Ursuline was moved up to D4 this year and St. John was moved up to D5 this year, would the whining and crying end? I don't think it would.
Dec 5, 2010 9:04am
O

oldschoolreddev

Senior Member

188 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:09 AM
Divisions I-III were some pretty good games. Divisions IV-VI games not so good. We have the best system in the country. Let's not screw it up. Dr. Ross was talking about their discussions for DI and making a DI & DIa. I say leave it alone.
Dec 5, 2010 9:09am
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:10 AM
thereddragin;588161 wrote:Let me start saying i'm for keeping things teh way they are now. however the real problem doesn't contain D123, its D456 the private schools in those divisions are so far ahead of the public schools it does make cause for concern especially in recent years. DSJ winning 77-7 that is a shame... how many players from this years DSJ team are going to go to college for football... prolly more than most D6 schools have had in the entire existance of the shool.

Yes...private schools tend to do well in Divisions 4-6. The biggest ones that people are upset with would be Mooney (who has moved up to D3 now, but will probably be dropping to D4 again), Ursuline, DSJ, and Newark Catholic. Those 4 schools combined have 20 state championships in those 3 divisions. So yes...the private schools do very well in D4-D6. And on the surface, it would seem like there's a little bit of inequity there. That is, until you look at the other juggernaut of the divisions. Coldwater, Versailles, St. Henry, and Maria Stein Marion Local account for 17 state championships in D4-D6. Historically, public schools have won more state championships than privates in the small divisions.

So as I've said before, go ahead and put in a multiplier. Screw over the private schools that hardly ever even sniff the playoffs like St. Thomas Aquinas, Purcell Marian, and Youngstown Christian. And then watch Coldwater, Versailles, St. Henry, and Maria Stein Marion Local win just about every state championship in the divisions.
Dec 5, 2010 9:10am
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

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7,733 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:22 AM
oldschoolreddev;588173 wrote:Divisions I-III were some pretty good games. Divisions IV-VI games not so good. We have the best system in the country. Let's not screw it up. Dr. Ross was talking about their discussions for DI and making a DI & DIa. I say leave it alone.

If you're in favor of D1 being left alone then you should be a proponent of only one 1 big division. The disparity from top to bottom in d.1 is greater than top to bottom in d2-d6 yet there is 5 divisions seperating them.
Dec 5, 2010 9:22am
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:29 AM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;588183 wrote:If you're in favor of D1 being left alone then you should be a proponent of only one 1 big division. The disparity from top to bottom in d.1 is greater than top to bottom in d2-d6 yet there is 5 divisions seperating them.

D1 definitely needs looked at again. I think the reason the OHSAA put it in the range that they did was because that gives you about 119 teams per division. I don't know the exact enrollment figures, but I'm sure that the OHSAA doesn't want to just split D1 in half and have about 60 teams in each of their top 2 divisions and 120 in all the others.

I would like them to take a look at realigning the enrollment figures to help balance out D1 a little more. But that realignment is going to affect every other division...not just D1.
Dec 5, 2010 9:29am
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Al Bundy

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4,180 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:35 AM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;588183 wrote:If you're in favor of D1 being left alone then you should be a proponent of only one 1 big division. The disparity from top to bottom in d.1 is greater than top to bottom in d2-d6 yet there is 5 divisions seperating them.

D6 has a greater disparity. The larger D6 teams have three times the number of boys than the smaller schools. When you have 600 boys, you should be able to field a good team. When you have 40 boys in the high school, it is much harder to find 11 who can play.
Dec 5, 2010 9:35am
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

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7,733 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:38 AM
sherm03;588187 wrote:D1 definitely needs looked at again. I think the reason the OHSAA put it in the range that they did was because that gives you about 119 teams per division. I don't know the exact enrollment figures, but I'm sure that the OHSAA doesn't want to just split D1 in half and have about 60 teams in each of their top 2 divisions and 120 in all the others.

I would like them to take a look at realigning the enrollment figures to help balance out D1 a little more. But that realignment is going to affect every other division...not just D1.

There is no good way to do it. Someone is going to get the short end of the stick. Ohio is made up of a couple big schools... a few moderatly sized schools... and a bunch of small schools.
I'm sure OHSAA sees it is if you have 500 boys , you should be able to fill 22 spots against a team 500 boys bigger than you better than a school with 100 boys playing a team 500 boys bigger than you.
Without making like 20 divisions, there is no fair way.

So I say 1 big divison lol.
Dec 5, 2010 9:38am
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

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7,733 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:40 AM
Al Bundy;588194 wrote:D6 has a greater disparity. The larger D6 teams have three times the number of boys than the smaller schools. When you have 600 boys, you should be able to field a good team. When you have 40 boys in the high school, it is much harder to find 11 who can play.

No I agree with you.. there isn't a fair way to handle it. But please don't assume there's no real advatange of 1000 boys vs 500.
Dec 5, 2010 9:40am
A

Al Bundy

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4,180 posts
Dec 5, 2010 9:44 AM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;588199 wrote:No I agree with you.. there isn't a fair way to handle it. But please don't assume there's no real advatange of 1000 boys vs 500.

There is an advantage with 1000. I just think that 120 vs 40 is more of an advantage than 1000 vs 500 in football. No matter how you set up divisions, the smallest and largest divisions will have the greatest difference.
Dec 5, 2010 9:44am
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

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Dec 5, 2010 9:48 AM
Al Bundy;588200 wrote:There is an advantage with 1000. I just think that 120 vs 40 is more of an advantage than 1000 vs 500 in football. No matter how you set up divisions, the smallest and largest divisions will have the greatest difference.

Of course... I'm just saying you're never going to have a good setup with the disparity of enrollment in Ohio no matter what you do.
Dec 5, 2010 9:48am
fish82's avatar

fish82

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4,111 posts
Dec 5, 2010 10:27 AM
sherm03;588187 wrote:D1 definitely needs looked at again. I think the reason the OHSAA put it in the range that they did was because that gives you about 119 teams per division. I don't know the exact enrollment figures, but I'm sure that the OHSAA doesn't want to just split D1 in half and have about 60 teams in each of their top 2 divisions and 120 in all the others.

I would like them to take a look at realigning the enrollment figures to help balance out D1 a little more. But that realignment is going to affect every other division...not just D1.
I still think school size in D1 is way overblown. Witness that a school right at the median just won the title. People always point to schools with 1000 boys, but then neglect the fact that 70% of the 10 biggest schools in the state won't even sniff the title game in this lifetime.
Dec 5, 2010 10:27am
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1_beast

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Dec 5, 2010 10:37 AM
sherm03;588176 wrote:
So as I've said before, go ahead and put in a multiplier. Screw over the private schools that hardly ever even sniff the playoffs like St. Thomas Aquinas, Purcell Marian, and Youngstown Christian. And then watch Coldwater, Versailles, St. Henry, and Maria Stein Marion Local win just about every state championship in the divisions.
Thats the schools that have to "suck it up" and "lift more" and "train harder"
Dec 5, 2010 10:37am
B

Be Nice

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1,120 posts
Dec 5, 2010 10:49 AM
beast...excellent points. The "comedian" and others see only one side....the blind side. Watching yesterdays fiasco will hopefully open up even more eyes as to why the "system" is flawed.
Dec 5, 2010 10:49am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Dec 5, 2010 11:11 AM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;588183 wrote:If you're in favor of D1 being left alone then you should be a proponent of only one 1 big division. ....
I would personally be fine with that and my children who are both athletes compete at a very small school.
Dec 5, 2010 11:11am
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Dec 5, 2010 11:20 AM
TwinTurbo;588056 wrote:well since your so certain that all these private schools recruit, why dont you produce the evidence that you are so sure of and turn them in to the ohsaa. Thats right you cant... but its easy to sit on here and whine and cry sipping from your juice box because u think its not fair, instead of putting your money where your mouth is and produce the evidence.

Its funny a public school that was caught recruiting within the last 2 years just finished second in div 2 yesterday, funny i dont here you crying about them. funny how it doesnt work both ways. but i suppose you'll have that when you people have a vendetta and can sit online and fling accusations without proof. Great roles models for kids u are. Breeding a whole new generation of people who whine and cry when things dont go there way saying its not fair... well lifes not fair get over it.

This is the smoke and mirrors arguments you guys put up....Mooney just has the biggest line in the whole state about every year ...No these teams dont recruit ..They have supperior intellect..they have supperior coaching and the water is better..its majic that a D-4 school could make #9 in the USA today its majic ...Its because you guys are the best you are all blessed ...
Dec 5, 2010 11:20am
D

Delphosfan

Member

74 posts
Dec 5, 2010 11:25 AM
thereddragin;588161 wrote:Let me start saying i'm for keeping things teh way they are now. however the real problem doesn't contain D123, its D456 the private schools in those divisions are so far ahead of the public schools it does make cause for concern especially in recent years. DSJ winning 77-7 that is a shame... how many players from this years DSJ team are going to go to college for football... prolly more than most D6 schools have had in the entire existance of the shool.
DSJ currently has no one playing college football. On this year's team we have one lineman offered from Buffalo. No one else has an offer.

DSJ beat fellow MAC team Marion Local 17-13 on a last minute TD. Shadyside couldn't compete in the MAC.
Dec 5, 2010 11:25am