genghis dong;872431 wrote:Ask skank about public schools recruiting. He should know.

Yep, I DO know.

Public school recruiting is frowned upon, like, 3 year bans from playoff participation frowned upon.

Private school recruiting is accepted a little more, especially depending on who you are, like a $250 fine, and a strongly worded letter.

I wonder if St. Ed will ever dig themselves out of THAT hole?

We received a $250 fine and we're public. Also in the Toledo Blade Whitmer's coach openly talked about their 6 transfers. So could what your saying be more hyperbole?

skank;873356 wrote:Yep, I DO know.

Public school recruiting is frowned upon, like, 3 year bans from playoff participation frowned upon.

Private school recruiting is accepted a little more, especially depending on who you are, like a $250 fine, and a strongly worded letter.

I wonder if St. Ed will ever dig themselves out of THAT hole?

All schools recruit all kids. It's just that the publics have incredible advantages, like unlimited tax money for outstanding campus amenities, and free tuition for everybody.

A lot of strong Catholic schools don't even have their own stadiums. Moeller, Alter, CJ are some examples in our area. They've all won state championships, and no stadium among the three.

Tonight Alter will play at Fairmont, just like every year, and Fairmont is always the home team. OHSAA says Fairmont had 881 boys in grades 9, 10 and 11 last October, all of whom go to school for free, and Alter had 255. Of course we don't know who will win, but Alter is the prohibitive favorite. That has nothing at all to do with recruiting. Fairmont has at least a dozen players from Catholic junior highs. Alter has 4 from public junior highs.

Alter gets 200 of its 680 students from Fairmont's district, all of whom pay to attend. Some get a break on tuition, based on family financial circumstances. About 15 to 20 get vouchers, and I don't know how many of those play sports. No one gets a break on tuition, fees or anything else to play sports. In fact, Alter has a pay to play policy, where in addition to tuition, families pay for their kids to participate in activities, including sports.

Now you tell me that Alter does anything that's "frowned upon" in order to compete.

A couple of years ago, Alter accepted a kid who went to public school for a year and didn't do well there. His mother took him out of there and sent him to Alter for the change of scenery. He wasn't Catholic. She paid the tuition. After testing, Alter's academic folks recommended that he start over at Alter as a freshman. He didn't play any sports until he was a senior at Alter. His classmates urged him to try football, which he had never played before. As far as the football coaches knew, he was a senior and had been at Alter for four years. He played on the third team.

In the first two games, he got in at the end after the game was a blowout in Alter's favor. Third game was at Ashland, and he had missed practice on Labor Day, violating team rules. He didn't dress. The next week, at a parent conference, his mother was praising the football program for exciting her son and giving him confidence and purpose, while talking with a teacher, who was a coach of a girls sport team. The mother also mentioned that it was so nice in his fifth year in high school to have the opportunity to play.

The teacher heard "fifth year" and went straight to the athletic director, who went to the football coach and the principal. After checking records and the OHSAA rules, a phone call and a letter went directly to the OHSAA, self-reporting the inadvertent violation. OHSAA imposed a penalty of forfeiting the games the player participated in. Had he played in the third game, Alter would not have made the playoffs, despite being undefeated on the field that year.

As a result, Fairmont made it into the playoffs because the forfeit win over Alter gave it enough computer points to get in. Fairmont lost in the first playoff game. Alter won the state championship.

That was a little more than a $250 fine.

I'm tired of your prejudice, your falsehoods and above all, your incessant whining.

Division 3 Mooney goes to Canton and beats McK a school 4 times the enrollment . This is not a suprise to anybody ... St Eds beat Glenville but they are same size schools atleast ... Kettering Alter a D-4 team destroys D-1 Ketttering Fairmont .... Any other noteable catholic vs public school scores?

I can offer some insight as to what happens.. In 1994 in Md their was a split from the MPSA of private and publics... The MPSA became the MPSSAA it is all public funded schools, magnet schools, Vo Tech. IN Maryland no private schools play in the state championships. Its pretty straight forward and by enrollment numbers. They have 4 classifications.. 1A,2A,3A and 4A.. The larger schools being 4A. It seems pretty fair with a few bug a boos.. Tech schools can draw from the whole county and schools with magnet programs can also.. Baltimore City has school choice and a school like Dunbar pulls from everywhere yet they play in the 1A come play-off time.. Needless to say they win it just about every year..

The privates formed their own association ad their own rues .. The MIAA and they have three divisions of play.. A,B,C. These schools can recruit, offer aide, scholllys etc.. thus the MIAA A conference has become one of the better football conferences in the country and the Lacrosse is hands down the best conference in the country. Many young football players at the rec level (MD doesn't have middle school sports really) strive to be recruited by these school.. You will see the MIAA coaches at many youth football games, they will host game at their campuses as well as middle school combines and 7on7's.. The kids and parents get excited when they see these coaches there almost just like when high school kids see a college coach at their events... Football teams of note in this conference is Gilman, Calvert Hall, Loyola, Georgetown Prep, ST Joes, McDonough, etc.. They dont really recruit from other high schools and recruiting from each other is a no no but if a public school kid transfers no one bats an eye.. Most the public school coaches realize it a better situation for their player and usually will congratulate them and pull for them rather then take it personal.. not all but most..

Some Md privates also play in the WCAC(Washington Catholic) which is basically the same thing.. school of not in that are DeMatha and Good Counsel..

These private league have their own play-offs and championships, the publics have their state championships and it seems to work really well.. The Publics can and do play the privates in regular season games they just have to sign a waiver of some sorts with the MPSSAA.. same as any out of state school has too to play MPSSAA school...

I personally like it.. it give many kids of diverse back grounds and opportunity to go to a private school and perform on a lager stage and betters their chance of going to college whether on scholly or juts getting accepted.. Before the split the private school were for mostly white upper class kids and this change and added diversity was met with some serious skepticism at first. Its all settled in now and it has been great for Md and all the kids.. just my 2c

There has been allot of chatter about Red Lion on here and their deal with the DIAA.. What Red Lion did was essentially copy the rules and guidelines from the MIAA and split just like they did in Md.. Only RLCA is the only one.. Red Lion is also in process and has formed along with other like minded schools in the tri state area a new conference tailored from the MIAA.. This conference will be basketball this year and the intents is to fold the other sports in as it progresses.. It will have its own tournament and championships.. Its called the Colonial States Inter Scholastic Athletic Association and includes schools from DE,PA,NJ and poss NY... I am excited to see how this works out.. I know the football team is looking to join a conference as well. MIAA has reached out as well as maybe this conference if it grow to that point..

Sorry for the long post that doest really concern Ohio but I thought is may add to the discussion and some folks may find it interesting

Thanks

Thinthickbigred;876268 wrote:Division 3 Mooney goes to Canton and beats McK a school 4 times the enrollment . This is not a suprise to anybody ... St Eds beat Glenville but they are same size schools atleast ... Kettering Alter a D-4 team destroys D-1 Ketttering Fairmont .... Any other noteable catholic vs public school scores?

Here we go. First off irregardless of size Fairmont is horrible. They would lose to most good D4 teams. Mooney is just Mooney a good program. I don't know how many times you can beat the same tired drum. Mooney 257 McKinley 636 that's 4 times? I see english isn't the only thing you struggle at.

Thinthickbigred;876268 wrote:Division 3 Mooney goes to Canton and beats McK a school 4 times the enrollment

Why no comment on the fact that McKinley couldn't get their transfer kicker eligible in time for the game?

Transfers by publics is just fine with you, huh?

Oh yeah Sylvania Southview 23 Toledo St. Francis 21. See teams beat private schools all the time and when we lose we don't whine.

heartofalion,
Thanks for the look into the playoff situation in other states.

The nice thing about Ohio, though, is that there are so many options for a kid that it is actually staggering. I'm sure in Maryland, the kids that go to the public schools just go to the one in their area. In Ohio, though, schools have the option to go Open Enrollment. The school can choose to be a statewide OE school (where they can accept students from literally anywhere in the state), or adjacent district OE (where they can accept kids that live in a bordering school district).

No offense to Maryland, or Delaware, or anywhere else...but I think that Ohio's systems is one of the best playoff systems in the country. And that is mainly because ALL of the teams are in it. There is one clear winner in each division. But now, people are upset because they feel that parochial schools have an advantage. They say that parochial teams can get kids from all over (except they completely forget the whole Open Enrollment thing I told you about). Parochial schools have seen an uptick recently, and the main reason is that school districts in Ohio are going to crap. There is a law in Ohio, that if a student lives in a district that is in Academic Emergency, that student can apply for a voucher and attend a parochial school free if the school accepts vouchers. This has helped a lot of students who wouldn't normally be able to afford a parochial school education gain that opportunity. In addition, the governor is pushing for a new law that allows ANY student to apply for a voucher, regardless of how his or her public school is performing. This will give even more students the ability to attend parochial schools. So diversity has not, and will not, be an issue at the parochial schools in Ohio.

The bottom line is that parochial schools don't have this crazy advantage that some on here would like you to believe. There are actually people in Ohio that believe that a parochial school will turn away a student if they aren't good at sports in order to keep themselves in a lower division. THAT is the level of hatred that people have for parochial schools in Ohio...they will say stuff that is THAT dumb.

Guys like Thinthick are just confused. He is a Steubenville guy, and understands that Steubenville (a school the same size as Cardinal Mooney) would probably beat Canton McKinley as well. But that is OK in his book. It's only a problem when a parochial school does it. Despite what he says, his issue is not with parochial/public...his issue is with urban/rural. He claims that it isn't fair that rural small schools have to compete with teams like Ursuline. But when it's pointed out that those small town rural public schools are the only option, and a student can choose to go to Ursuline, or literally 20 other schools within a half hour drive, he doesn't understand that and thinks that Ursuline has the advantage.

So please excuse the ignorance of some on here. They really truly believe that what they are saying is right. But they refuse to look at the other side of things, and would rather just whine and complain until their team is handed a state championship trophy because they are the only school left in their division.

Fitch is playing some big bad Catholics Week#3..........we'll see.

Very interesting sherm.. I never heard of the voucher thing before.. I know the Catholic schools in Baltimore had an at risk program for city kids where they would pay for them to go to a Catholic private,, But a statewide voucher is pretty innovative.. kudos for Ohio on that.. Inner city public schools going to crap is pretty much happening everywhere.. and even in the counties now..

There is absolutly no excuse for any public school district in Ohio to go to the crapper .. With all the money they get from state lotto .. Its really sad .. Question though for the catholic schools that use these voucher systems to intergrate at risk kids ... Do you take in girls ? Or do you just get the best male athletes especially football players?
Before you answer ..It was a rhetorical question . I know the answer.. You only take in the best male athletes atleast that is your 90% maybe a good female athlete from time to time .. Lebron James is a product of this isnt he ...
If I was a good catholic and went to church in the parish and paid my kids way through school .. i dont know how Id feel .. It is good business by the catholic schools to do this .. After all football pays for all the other schools extra currricular activities ... so you give these boys a free ride ,but they actually pay there way because they make your teams succesful .. its a win win deal ... i definitly dont blame those schools for doing this .. i just think its unfair to the publics who have to play these juggernauts in the playoffs ... its so much different than openenrollment ... These schools activly recruit and there are no laws to govern there activity .. Public schools have a watchdog over them

Prepare to be embarrassed.

Thinthickbigred;876608 wrote:There is absolutly no excuse for any public school district in Ohio to go to the crapper .. With all the money they get from state lotto .. Its really sad .. Question though for the catholic schools that use these voucher systems to intergrate at risk kids ... Do you take in girls ? Or do you just get the best male athletes especially football players?
Before you answer ..It was a rhetorical question . I know the answer.. You only take in the best male athletes atleast that is your 90% maybe a good female athlete from time to time .. Lebron James is a product of this isnt he ...
If I was a good catholic and went to church in the parish and paid my kids way through school .. i dont know how Id feel .. It is good business by the catholic schools to do this .. After all football pays for all the other schools extra currricular activities ... so you give these boys a free ride ,but they actually pay there way because they make your teams succesful .. its a win win deal ... i definitly dont blame those schools for doing this .. i just think its unfair to the publics who have to play these juggernauts in the playoffs ... its so much different than openenrollment ... These schools activly recruit and there are no laws to govern there activity .. Public schools have a watchdog over them

Look at this link, and you will see why Ursuline and Mooney receive voucher kids, and why many open enrollment schools in the area get a lot of students from the Youngstown District. http://www.ode.state.oh.us/reportcardfiles/2010-2011/DIST/045161.pdf

Thinthickbigred;876608 wrote:There is absolutly no excuse for any public school district in Ohio to go to the crapper .. With all the money they get from state lotto .. Its really sad .. Question though for the catholic schools that use these voucher systems to intergrate at risk kids ... Do you take in girls ? Or do you just get the best male athletes especially football players?
Before you answer ..It was a rhetorical question . I know the answer.. You only take in the best male athletes atleast that is your 90% maybe a good female athlete from time to time .. Lebron James is a product of this isnt he ...
If I was a good catholic and went to church in the parish and paid my kids way through school .. i dont know how Id feel .. It is good business by the catholic schools to do this .. After all football pays for all the other schools extra currricular activities ... so you give these boys a free ride ,but they actually pay there way because they make your teams succesful .. its a win win deal ... i definitly dont blame those schools for doing this .. i just think its unfair to the publics who have to play these juggernauts in the playoffs ... its so much different than openenrollment ... These schools activly recruit and there are no laws to govern there activity .. Public schools have a watchdog over them

Oh my God. Is this serious? It was hard to take anything you said seriously beforehand. But now, I'm convinced that this whole thing is an act...just like Sleeper on the college football forum. There is no way that anyone can be this narrow minded and annoying about this. And if people really do think this way, then it's clear why our public schools are in the trouble they are in...and it has nothing to do with the teachers, or money, or anything like that. It has to do with the fact that there are just really stupid people living in this state.

sherm03;876683 wrote:Oh my God. Is this serious? It was hard to take anything you said seriously beforehand. But now, I'm convinced that this whole thing is an act...just like Sleeper on the college football forum. There is no way that anyone can be this narrow minded and annoying about this. And if people really do think this way, then it's clear why our public schools are in the trouble they are in...and it has nothing to do with the teachers, or money, or anything like that. It has to do with the fact that there are just really stupid people living in this state.

yep and you are probably one of them . Since i dont live in this state I am excluded from your theory

rmolin73;876616 wrote:Prepare to be embarrassed.

you are very narrow minded urself .. i dont see any objectivity coming from you ...

Thinthickbigred;876724 wrote:yep and you are probably one of them .

You got me good, Farva.

Thinthickbigred;876725 wrote:you are very narrow minded urself .. i dont see any objectivity coming from you ...

Me narrow minded? Objectivity is all that myself and many other public school guys have shown on this topic. Maybe you are unaware yourself on what either word means.

Narrow minded-having a biased or illiberal viewpoint; bigoted, intolerant, or prejudiced

So essentially you are calling a public school guy who roots for a public school narrow minded because I appreciate the Ohio playoff system? As well as believing that in order to say you're the best you play and win over the best? The fact that myself as well as others have posted actual factual data in regards to the plite of the Youngstown Public School system? Are you aware that over 4,000 kids applied for vouchers in Youngstown alone? But yet you say they are all boys for football? Are you freaking serious!

Objectivity-judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices

Where have I displayed the lack of being objective about this matter? Where have I shown any emotional or personal prejudices? Where have I not posted actual DATA that has supported my argument?

skank;873356 wrote:Yep, I DO know.

Public school recruiting is frowned upon, like, 3 year bans from playoff participation frowned upon.

Private school recruiting is accepted a little more, especially depending on who you are, like a $250 fine, and a strongly worded letter.

I wonder if St. Ed will ever dig themselves out of THAT hole?

The thing with private schools is .. How can you catch them ?? Its almost impossible becuse they are private..That is a huge advatage .. You know your Tigers are under a microscope.. you cant do much without it making an uproar

rmolin73;877033 wrote:Me narrow minded? Objectivity is all that myself and many other public school guys have shown on this topic. Maybe you are unaware yourself on what either word means.

Narrow minded-having a biased or illiberal viewpoint; bigoted, intolerant, or prejudiced

So essentially you are calling a public school guy who roots for a public school narrow minded because I appreciate the Ohio playoff system? As well as believing that in order to say you're the best you play and win over the best? The fact that myself as well as others have posted actual factual data in regards to the plite of the Youngstown Public School system? Are you aware that over 4,000 kids applied for vouchers in Youngstown alone? But yet you say they are all boys for football? Are you freaking serious!

Objectivity-judgment based on observable phenomena and uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices

Where have I displayed the lack of being objective about this matter? Where have I shown any emotional or personal prejudices? Where have I not posted actual DATA that has supported my argument?

You are unusual for the background that you have given me .. Seems like you are trying to overcompensate something ...Its like your making friends with your enemies and enemies with your friends

Thinthickbigred;877178 wrote:

skank;877178 wrote:Yep, I DO know.

Public school recruiting is frowned upon, like, 3 year bans from playoff participation frowned upon.

Private school recruiting is accepted a little more, especially depending on who you are, like a $250 fine, and a strongly worded letter.

I wonder if St. Ed will ever dig themselves out of THAT hole?

The thing with private schools is .. How can you catch them ?? Its almost impossible becuse they are private..That is a huge advatage .. You know your Tigers are under a microscope.. you cant do much without it making an uproar

Now wait a second. Is it impossible to catch them...or did St. Ed's just get in trouble? Is it impossible to catch them, or did Harvest Prep just get banned?

You can't have it both ways here fellas. Either it's impossible to catch the private schools, or it's just as easy to catch them as all those public schools that get busted, and you just don't like to admit it.

Thinthickbigred;877183 wrote:You are unusual for the background that you have given me .. Seems like you are trying to overcompensate something ...Its like your making friends with your enemies and enemies with your friends

Maybe that's your problem. This is an internet message board where I view no one a a friend or enemy. Trust me life is too short to take things as serious as you and skank take it. Unusual? So the fact that I view things more progressively than you it's unusual? As soon as you stop lying, making things up, learn 5th grade English, and math then maybe we will take you seriously. With your statements you have proven yourself to be both narrow minded and lacking any kind of objectivity.

Seems like those most worried about recruiting would focus on the fact that no school can successfully recruit kids from another school that isn't seriously lacking in one or more areas.

Maybe they are just upset because the parochials are getting to the kids before their schools can?