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Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Football ▸ Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Aug 30, 2011 5:08 PM
GoChiefs;877691 wrote:Maybe they are just pissed because the parochials are getting to the kids before their schools can?
More likely is they're upset because they have nothing to sell.
Aug 30, 2011 5:08pm
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Aug 30, 2011 6:50 PM
rmolin73;877515 wrote:Maybe that's your problem. This is an internet message board where I view no one a a friend or enemy. Trust me life is too short to take things as serious as you and skank take it. Unusual? So the fact that I view things more progressively than you it's unusual? As soon as you stop lying, making things up, learn 5th grade English, and math then maybe we will take you seriously. With your statements you have proven yourself to be both narrow minded and lacking any kind of objectivity.
wut did i lie about? It was just a figure of speeech. im not that serious about things ...you seem to be though
Aug 30, 2011 6:50pm
skank's avatar

skank

Senior Member

6,543 posts
Aug 30, 2011 8:08 PM
Good stuff guys, one and all. But as I posted on the Mentor/Ursuline thread, please justify how a school with 173 boys can compete with a school with 1,059. Any explaination will do it.

And, "the parochial school kids want it more", line won't fly here.
Aug 30, 2011 8:08pm
skank's avatar

skank

Senior Member

6,543 posts
Aug 30, 2011 8:09 PM
GoChiefs;877691 wrote:Maybe they are just pissed because the parochials are getting to the kids before their schools can?


No, I'd say I'm more pissed that the OHSAA is allowing it to go on.
Aug 30, 2011 8:09pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Aug 30, 2011 8:25 PM
skank;877845 wrote:Good stuff guys, one and all. But as I posted on the Mentor/Ursuline thread, please justify how a school with 173 boys can compete with a school with 1,059. Any explaination will do it.

And, "the parochial school kids want it more", line won't fly here.
The same reason why Coldwater (156 boys) would probably compete with Beavercreek (960 boys), or Brunswick (931 boys).
Aug 30, 2011 8:25pm
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Aug 30, 2011 9:00 PM
skank;877849 wrote:No, I'd say I'm more pissed that the OHSAA is allowing it to go on.
+2
Aug 30, 2011 9:00pm
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Aug 30, 2011 9:59 PM
Thinthickbigred;877906 wrote:The only 2
FIFY:D
Aug 30, 2011 9:59pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Aug 30, 2011 10:02 PM
rmolin73;877964 wrote:FIFY:D
LOL! Reps for that one!
Aug 30, 2011 10:02pm
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Aug 31, 2011 12:24 AM
rmolin73;877964 wrote:FIFY:D
84 georgia
Aug 31, 2011 12:24am
D

Dean Wormer

Senior Member

333 posts
Aug 31, 2011 9:16 AM
skank;877845 wrote:Good stuff guys, one and all. But as I posted on the Mentor/Ursuline thread, please justify how a school with 173 boys can compete with a school with 1,059. Any explaination will do it.

And, "the parochial school kids want it more", line won't fly here.
Maybe it's because they are good athletes. Those same good athletes got their butt kicked last week by a team with 40 players. Do you think Red Lion can compete with Mentor? When you can't get a schedule because nobody wants to play you, you have to take what's available and at least Mentor has the gonads to step up and play.
Aug 31, 2011 9:16am
skank's avatar

skank

Senior Member

6,543 posts
Aug 31, 2011 9:39 AM
A school with over a thousand boys, shouldn't have to, "muster up gonads", to play a school with 173 boys....Unless there's something fishy going on.
Aug 31, 2011 9:39am
H

heartofalion

Junior Member

26 posts
Aug 31, 2011 10:11 AM
I dont understand the big deal. Private schools build programs with quality and Publics with quantity.. That's the way its always been.. And no I am not saying pulics dont have quality they just have more numbers to find that quality 11.... It seems like a pretty fair deal to me... Now I do think there has to be a system to allow the better private schools to move up in class for the state play-offs. Like was mentioned before an enrollment multiplier system for the privates is an idea that is implemented in many states now.. I am most certain a program like Ursuline would much rather play in the Div 3 play-offs.. If all they cared about was Div 5 championships then they wouldn't schedule bigger schools and risk play-off points. I have much respect for them for scheduling tough opponents and taking that chance of missing the play-offs... Can an Ohio school petition or request to move up in class? I know Shiloh did this and Arkansas and it was granted I believe..


One aspect I really like about the MIAA( an association of all private schools in MD that I mentioned in an earlier post) is they have the three divisions , A,B,C but size of the school(enrollment numbers) are not what determines placement. They evaluate how good each team or program is every two years and adjust.. It isn't sweeping across all sports either.. One school may have , Basketball, Lacrosse maybe in the A conference but Football in the B. Basically if you win the B for two years you get moved up to A or you can get moved down if you cant compete .. Not saying its better than anyone else's system its just for conversations sake.
Aug 31, 2011 10:11am
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Aug 31, 2011 10:42 AM
heartofalion that is similar to a proposal that was voted on by our High school sports governing body. It was voted down because it did not address the disparity in our biggest division. It is my belief that once that is addressed a multiplier will be added to parochial and open enrollment schools and it will pass. But it still wont stop the whiners if you ask me.
Aug 31, 2011 10:42am
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Aug 31, 2011 11:21 AM
If this isnt a big deal then why do so many states have seperate playoff systems and several others have tried like Ohio and West Virginia
Aug 31, 2011 11:21am
H

heartofalion

Junior Member

26 posts
Aug 31, 2011 11:44 AM
rmolin73;878318 wrote:heartofalion that is similar to a proposal that was voted on by our High school sports governing body. It was voted down because it did not address the disparity in our biggest division. It is my belief that once that is addressed a multiplier will be added to parochial and open enrollment schools and it will pass. But it still wont stop the whiners if you ask me.
Of course their will always be whiners.. Its not possible to please everyone.. What gets me is these athletic governing bodies that either vote down or vote in proposals as written.. Why don't they take the proposal then adjust it to make it work for as many as they can then vote on it.. I have to give the DIAA in DE tons of credit on this front.. Instead of just voting down Red Lions proposal as written because they didn't like certain aspects of it.. They formed a sub committee and worked with RL to formulate a proposal both sides could live with. Then voted it in. To me this is how it should work.. But thats just my humble opinion on it..
Aug 31, 2011 11:44am
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Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Aug 31, 2011 12:50 PM
heartofalion;878364 wrote:Of course their will always be whiners.. Its not possible to please everyone.. What gets me is these athletic governing bodies that either vote down or vote in proposals as written.. Why don't they take the proposal then adjust it to make it work for as many as they can then vote on it.. I have to give the DIAA in DE tons of credit on this front.. Instead of just voting down Red Lions proposal as written because they didn't like certain aspects of it.. They formed a sub committee and worked with RL to formulate a proposal both sides could live with. Then voted it in. To me this is how it should work.. But thats just my humble opinion on it..
Many public school proponents like the current system. I went to a public school, and I am very happy with our system. The only change I would really like to see is less divisions. I would prefer 4 divisions because I think we would see some more interesting matchups come playoff time. The two biggest whiners on this topic are fans of public schools who have brought in players from multiple states over the last few years.
Aug 31, 2011 12:50pm
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Aug 31, 2011 12:54 PM
Thinthickbigred;878350 wrote:If this isnt a big deal then why do so many states have seperate playoff systems and several others have tried like Ohio and West Virginia
No one ever said that it wasn't a big deal in Ohio because anyone with a shred of common sense can see that it is. But you can forget about Ohio having separate playoffs because you will always have public schools that want to play all teams in the tournament.
Aug 31, 2011 12:54pm
H

heartofalion

Junior Member

26 posts
Aug 31, 2011 1:29 PM
What do you think of the idea of 5 Divisions But add a open division thats performance based.(A Super Div) for the big schools with good programs and smaller schools that can compete.. Big schools that are good will be placed there and the smaller schools can opt in or petition in based on performance.. Or something to that effect..
Aug 31, 2011 1:29pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Aug 31, 2011 1:51 PM
heartofalion;878467 wrote:What do you think of the idea of 5 Divisions But add a open division thats performance based.(A Super Div) for the big schools with good programs and smaller schools that can compete.. Big schools that are good will be placed there and the smaller schools can opt in or petition in based on performance.. Or something to that effect..
I like that better than the option to move up a division. The problem with just moving up a division is that you get years when a smaller division is better than the next one up, and teams would move for that reason.
Aug 31, 2011 1:51pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Aug 31, 2011 4:06 PM
I don't have a problem with giving schools the option to VOLUNTARILY move up. That applies to any school, private or public. That was my big problem with the proposal. To force almost every private school to move up simply because they are private is BS.

I also feel that, if we are going to do this to "level the field," then let's level it completely. If you are going to force a private school to move up because of a multiplier, then get rid of the rule that if a student transfers to a private school he has to sit out a year. It's crazy that if a kid transfers from public school A to private school A, he has to sit. BUT if he transfers from private school A to public school A, he gets to suit up right away and doesn't have to sit a year.
Aug 31, 2011 4:06pm
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Delphosfan

Member

74 posts
Aug 31, 2011 9:35 PM
Thinthickbigred;878350 wrote:If this isnt a big deal then why do so many states have seperate playoff systems and several others have tried like Ohio and West Virginia
A quote from an article on the Findlay Courier website: "According to OHSAA Commissioner Daniel Ross, public and private schools compete against one another in 37 states. Six states, predominately in the South, use a multiplier for private schools. Two states, Maryland and Virginia, have separate public and private school championships and five states are public-private championship hybrids.
Then there is New Jersey where the football playoffs are divided into 20 sections, 16 public and four private, and each section crowns a state champion."

Here's a link to the article...
http://sportsbuzzohio.com/Blogs/BlanchardRiverBuzz/tabid/472/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1949/OHSAA-competitive-balance-How-it-will-work.aspx
Aug 31, 2011 9:35pm
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Sep 1, 2011 1:11 AM
Delphosfan thank you for those facts. So I guess that dispells the myth that most states have seperate playoff systems. :thumbup:
Sep 1, 2011 1:11am
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Sykotyk

Senior Member

1,155 posts
Sep 1, 2011 7:03 AM
One thing to remember is a lot of states, especially in the fly-over states don't have a lot of private schools. Kicking out the handful of non-publics would be minimal. Plus, in most fly-over states, teams 'co-op' to form larger teams. Including times where the public and private schools might co-op together to form one team. And not just from one town. Last year I saw Goodridge/Grygla-Gadzke, a massive co-op from Minnesota that barely attained a 9-man team from all those schools.

If Ohio allowed co-ops, we'd see some interesting things. First being Cleveland could co-op all their H.S. teams together into a super-team if they wanted to cut down on expenses. A local catholic and public school could co-op together (like Mentor and Lake Catholic, for instance), etc.

Not everyone does it like Ohio and the apples-to-apples comparison doesn't work without accounting for the entire differences present.
Sep 1, 2011 7:03am
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Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Sep 1, 2011 7:13 AM
Sykotyk;879024 wrote:One thing to remember is a lot of states, especially in the fly-over states don't have a lot of private schools. Kicking out the handful of non-publics would be minimal. Plus, in most fly-over states, teams 'co-op' to form larger teams. Including times where the public and private schools might co-op together to form one team. And not just from one town. Last year I saw Goodridge/Grygla-Gadzke, a massive co-op from Minnesota that barely attained a 9-man team from all those schools.

If Ohio allowed co-ops, we'd see some interesting things. First being Cleveland could co-op all their H.S. teams together into a super-team if they wanted to cut down on expenses. A local catholic and public school could co-op together (like Mentor and Lake Catholic, for instance), etc.

Not everyone does it like Ohio and the apples-to-apples comparison doesn't work without accounting for the entire differences present.
I dont want to see a co op thing .. Although it would be interesting from a fan standpoint it wouldnt be fair to the kids and you would lose alot of late bloomers that turn into great athletes .. ie Michael Jordan ... Kids love the game the more teams we have gives more kids a chance to play
Sep 1, 2011 7:13am
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Dean Wormer

Senior Member

333 posts
Sep 1, 2011 7:59 AM
Thinthickbigred;879025 wrote:I dont want to see a co op thing .. Although it would be interesting from a fan standpoint it wouldnt be fair to the kids and you would lose alot of late bloomers that turn into great athletes .. ie Michael Jordan ... Kids love the game the more teams we have gives more kids a chance to play
Unless you play for a parochial school. Then you get punished by some stupid multiplier or separate playoffs. Thick you kill me. What is it. Let em play or punish the parochial schools? :confused::confused:
Sep 1, 2011 7:59am