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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 4:30pm
You said "'somehow" they always have money. The reason we have money is because the citizens of Steubenville have never turned down a school levy. That gives us one big source of cash. Also, because the community supports the schools so much, we received some very lucrative grants that did not have to be paid back. That's one big reason why our facilites are brand-new and state-of-the-art. If the citizens within the Creek district voted for their levies on a regular basis, Creek would have great facilities, too, and the money to do extra things.WooHaa! wrote:I agree, Steubenville has better facilities. Somehow they always have money and they have made it work to the point that they get even more money from open enrollment kids. IC loses a ton of money every year to open enrollment. By losing this money, IC can't keep up. It has created a trickle down effect that is slowly killing the district. As it will the others. It's not Big Red's fault. I know that. It is the system implemented by the state and to Steubenville's credit it has benefitted them greatly.FairwoodKing wrote: SOS-- Don't forget that the open enrollment door swings both ways. All five school districts in Jefferson County have exactly the same open enrollment policy. If all other things were equal, there would probably be the same number of students going to as well as coming from the Steubenville schools. But things are not equal. SHS has a lot of advantages (besides football) that the other schools can't offer. One of them is size. When I graduated from Big Red in 1966, there were 1300 students in the high school. Now there are just over 500 and yet the school was expanded. Big Red could easily accommodate all the current students plus all of Creek's students and still have room to spare. And don't forget that everything in the Steubenville schools is new. In the past dozen years or so, everything was replaced except the façade at the high school and Harding Stadium. And even those items have been constantly renovated. Big Red offers everything from air conditioning to state-of-the-art computer labs. Steubenville also has the best-paid teachers in the valley, so many of the best teachers gravitate there.
Creek does very well with what they've got, but what they have to offer can't compare with Steubenville. That's one of the key reasons why kids choose to attend SHS.
This trickle down effect has, in turn, greatly helped boys sports at Big Red (minus basketball, can't figure that one out).
My biggest gripe is that schools nowadays are no longer true reflections of the community. Towns have lost their identity. Looking at those records of the county teams over the last few years is a perfect example of what I am talking about. No one can sit here and say that Steubenville has not benefitted from open enrollment greatly. Take away open enrollment and you have more evn records amongst the football teams in Jefferson County. If you can honestly sit at your computer and tell me that open enrollment hasn't helped Big Red more than any other school then you're blind.
One great example, a certain principal in IC district had an up and coming son that was a three sport athlete. The dad was given a principal job at Big Red so his son would come and play QB, SS, and basketball. Son graduates, dad leaves. IC, like a bunch of idiots, give him his job back.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 4:43pm
Getting back to the subject at hand, Creek will probably not "turn it around" with the current coaching staff. The reason I doubt the staff is because only about 30 boys turned out for football this past season. Maybe I'm wrong in blaming the staff for this, but the blame has to go someplace. In comparison, Big Red and Dover had around 60 players and Mooney, the smallest Div. III school in Ohio, probably had 80. In Div. III, you can't win anything with only 30 players. Considering the small turnout, I think Creek did very well last year.
For whatever it's worth, Creek has no real history in football. Wintersville, Mingo, and Creek combined have never won a playoff game. True, the schools have had some good records at times, but these never equated to success in the post-season. I think the mindset is wrong for Creek players. While Big Red, Dover, Mooney, Ursuline, and some other teams expect to make the playoffs and expect to do well every year, Creek just tries to get in, usually with no luck. Creek won't turn it around until some coach can get them into the playoffs and actually win a couple of games. The same goes for Buckeye, Harrison, and a few other local teams.
I wish Creek the best of luck in 2010 and I hope we meet in the playoffs.
For whatever it's worth, Creek has no real history in football. Wintersville, Mingo, and Creek combined have never won a playoff game. True, the schools have had some good records at times, but these never equated to success in the post-season. I think the mindset is wrong for Creek players. While Big Red, Dover, Mooney, Ursuline, and some other teams expect to make the playoffs and expect to do well every year, Creek just tries to get in, usually with no luck. Creek won't turn it around until some coach can get them into the playoffs and actually win a couple of games. The same goes for Buckeye, Harrison, and a few other local teams.
I wish Creek the best of luck in 2010 and I hope we meet in the playoffs.
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Jan 28, 2010 5:20pm
So if Creek doesn't get in the playoffs and win a couple playoff games it won't be a turn around? They can consider the season a failure?
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snyds113
Posts: 749
Jan 28, 2010 5:35pm
I thought Mingo in 1988 won a couple playoff games.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 5:46pm
No, it wouldn't be a failure, but there wouldn't be any improvement over what they have now. The topic of this discussion is when will Creek turn it around. That suggests that Creek is not currently where they want to be. Clearly the next step in their progress would be to make the playoffs. Then they have to win a game or two in the post-season. Finally, they would have to be regional champs and contend for the state championship. As Dover can tell you, this is a very hard progression. As good as Dover is, they usually make the playoffs but have never won the region.GoChiefs wrote: So if Creek doesn't get in the playoffs and win a couple playoff games it won't be a turn around? They can consider the season a failure?
In all this, I am assuming that Creek is using Big Red as a model. If I am correct, then "turning it around" would mean being a contender for state every year.
MANAZE
Posts: 1,055
Jan 28, 2010 5:46pm
"10-0 no where to go"snyds113 wrote: I thought Mingo in 1988 won a couple playoff games.
-Mingo 1988 football team
Creek has to go at least 7-3 to even consider it being a ok year just for the fact that if they didn't play BR last year they would have been 7-3, maybe if they didn't get the flu they might have been 8-2 and playoff bound. we'll see this year no excuses.
ManO'War
Posts: 1,420
Jan 28, 2010 7:01pm
I thought Mingo won a first round playoff game back in the 80's....pretty sure they did.
Personally, I didn't see much of a difference in IC from 07 to 09, no matter how much their fans want to think they did.
Personally, I didn't see much of a difference in IC from 07 to 09, no matter how much their fans want to think they did.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 7:12pm
I have asked this question twice and have not gotten a satisfactory answer. To the Creek people: how far up the ladder do you think you need to go to consider the program to have turned it around? Would you be satisfied with one and done in the playoffs? Do you feel you need to win at least one playoff game? Or do you think you must win the region and be in contention for state? We non-Creek people can talk about this forever, but it is you people who count. Please give me your opinion.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 7:15pm
I am fairly sure that Mingo never won a playoff game. I followed Mingo back in those days because my mother graduated from there. She was a very proud Mingo Indian. She went to her grave hating the consolidation.ManO'War wrote: I thought Mingo won a first round playoff game back in the 80's....pretty sure they did.
Personally, I didn't see much of a difference in IC from 07 to 09, no matter how much their fans want to think they did.
ManO'War
Posts: 1,420
Jan 28, 2010 7:25pm
I thought they beat someone then played in North Canton's stadium and lost to Mogadore??
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 7:37pm
You may be right. I just don't remember them winning a playoff game.ManO'War wrote: I thought they beat someone then played in North Canton's stadium and lost to Mogadore??
I do definitely remember that Mingo came within an extra inning of winning the state championship in baseball about a week after the school closed for good. That game broke my mother's heart.
MANAZE
Posts: 1,055
Jan 28, 2010 8:06pm
FairwoodKing to answer your question as a Creek grad, fan, and as a parent of current student in the district the main thing I want is for the school to finally put the money they are given to use. They have a choice right now when they build the new Jr. High if it all goes well you'll see more levies passed for Creek if it goes the same as it has in the past Creek will be a sad place to be for the next ten years.
Football though is another story. There is no reason Creek shouldn't finish 7-3 or better every year. Playoffs are hard to win but we should be able to get there and as a fan that is what I would like to see done with in the next 2-3 years is a playoff birth and at least one playoff win. Than we'll have to see what they do to improve on that.
Football though is another story. There is no reason Creek shouldn't finish 7-3 or better every year. Playoffs are hard to win but we should be able to get there and as a fan that is what I would like to see done with in the next 2-3 years is a playoff birth and at least one playoff win. Than we'll have to see what they do to improve on that.
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Al Capone
Posts: 1,727
Jan 28, 2010 8:27pm
FAN?
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WooHaa!
Posts: 54
Jan 28, 2010 8:29pm
that is the net %MANAZE wrote: if you know the numbers for the % loss of creek transfers out how much do they gain from transfers in?
after all the numbers are done being figured we are behind that much
MANAZE
Posts: 1,055
Jan 28, 2010 9:07pm
ok but where did you get these numbers from?
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Jan 28, 2010 9:49pm
That's the best answer I've gotten yet.MANAZE wrote: FairwoodKing to answer your question as a Creek grad, fan, and as a parent of current student in the district the main thing I want is for the school to finally put the money they are given to use. They have a choice right now when they build the new Jr. High if it all goes well you'll see more levies passed for Creek if it goes the same as it has in the past Creek will be a sad place to be for the next ten years.
Football though is another story. There is no reason Creek shouldn't finish 7-3 or better every year. Playoffs are hard to win but we should be able to get there and as a fan that is what I would like to see done with in the next 2-3 years is a playoff birth and at least one playoff win. Than we'll have to see what they do to improve on that.
d.woods50fan.
Posts: 451
Jan 28, 2010 11:17pm
Agree with both!!!FairwoodKing wrote:That's the best answer I've gotten yet.MANAZE wrote: FairwoodKing to answer your question as a Creek grad, fan, and as a parent of current student in the district the main thing I want is for the school to finally put the money they are given to use. They have a choice right now when they build the new Jr. High if it all goes well you'll see more levies passed for Creek if it goes the same as it has in the past Creek will be a sad place to be for the next ten years.
Football though is another story. There is no reason Creek shouldn't finish 7-3 or better every year. Playoffs are hard to win but we should be able to get there and as a fan that is what I would like to see done with in the next 2-3 years is a playoff birth and at least one playoff win. Than we'll have to see what they do to improve on that.
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BuckCreek
Posts: 53
Jan 28, 2010 11:41pm
if you have access to the numbers, what are the numbers of students going both ways involved with each school district around Creek? I know these numbers are constantly changing, as there have been a couple students that came to Creek as open enrollments just since the holiday break.WooHaa! wrote:that is the net %MANAZE wrote: if you know the numbers for the % loss of creek transfers out how much do they gain from transfers in?
after all the numbers are done being figured we are behind that much
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snyds113
Posts: 749
Jan 29, 2010 2:07am
I think he is still a Creek fan.He is just frustrated.Give him a little credit he did start a nice discussion.Al Capone wrote: FAN?
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WooHaa!
Posts: 54
Jan 29, 2010 8:57am
Where did I get these numbers? From an administrator.BuckCreek wrote:if you have access to the numbers, what are the numbers of students going both ways involved with each school district around Creek? I know these numbers are constantly changing, as there have been a couple students that came to Creek as open enrollments just since the holiday break.WooHaa! wrote:that is the net %MANAZE wrote: if you know the numbers for the % loss of creek transfers out how much do they gain from transfers in?
after all the numbers are done being figured we are behind that much
I can't answer about the numbers of the other schools.
MANAZE
Posts: 1,055
Jan 29, 2010 9:00am
so its just hear say and not actual put on paper for everyone to see?
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WooHaa!
Posts: 54
Jan 29, 2010 10:26am
No, it's on paper.
Skin_Man
Posts: 92
Jan 29, 2010 12:21pm
Those numbers are on a website. It is something like we get 1 million dollars for those who come into our district from other schools and pay out just over 2 million to other schools. This includes CCHS.
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BuckCreek
Posts: 53
Jan 29, 2010 12:53pm
what web site is this info on?
sonofsam
Posts: 2,052
Jan 29, 2010 1:39pm
I have answered this question probably 3 times for you... I guess my answer was not to your liking? In order to turn this program around, Creek needs to compete to be the B8 champion every year... Which also means that we will have to at LEAST post a 7-3 record or better on a yearly basis. By doing this, it should secure us a play-off spot. Having only been there ONCE in our entire existence, it is something that we will have to learn what it takes to be a play-off contender. As I said before... LITTLE STEPS. Lets work on winning the B8 first and making some play-off games. Who wouldn't want to win a state championship, but lets be real... We are not ready for that. I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for that would do you any more justice? Are you looking for someone that says we are going to win a state championship so you can start poking at them??? I don't understand what anwser you are looking for.FairwoodKing wrote: I have asked this question twice and have not gotten a satisfactory answer. To the Creek people: how far up the ladder do you think you need to go to consider the program to have turned it around? Would you be satisfied with one and done in the playoffs? Do you feel you need to win at least one playoff game? Or do you think you must win the region and be in contention for state? We non-Creek people can talk about this forever, but it is you people who count. Please give me your opinion.
MoW, You said you haven't seen any improvement from '07-'09... Can you explain why that is? What didn't you see this past year that was just like last year??