Today marks the 40th anniversary of the Kent State shooting where Four Kent State students were tragically killed by National Guardsmen. The incident, still controversial today, marks a dark and bloody time in our country's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-05-03-kent-state_N.htm

Also, as an OSU alum, in one of my history courses I took a look at the OSU riots, which took place which before Kent, at the end of April ,1970. Here are some background and photos from the OSU library.
http://library.osu.edu/sites/exhibits/1970demonstrations/background.htm

My favorite is the girl flipping off the soldiers.

On May 4 Belly Unit entered into Cambodia ..we had been there before but only on Recon. On May 4th at Kent State three paths crossed. Dean Keller was shot a paralyzed by National Guard. Dean Keller was a childhood classmate, friend and neighbor in East Canton. The National Guard unit that was called that day was from Canton and within that Unit was also a friend that I grew up with in the projects. We enjoyed our teenage year running the streets of Canton on the weekends. Who know on that day that the link between three different people in three different situations would clash like it did…..
That night on May 4th my unit had to popped a ambush that we where out numbered and poorly position. I lost ... one killed and three wounded ………..my guys
Next day I read and hear the news of Kent State ….That day I lost even more of my emotional soul….

Dean R. Kahler 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down

When I was about 12, he was running for Athens County Commissioner. When asked why he was in a wheelchair he claimed "vietnam related injuries."

40 years ago today. Listening to the Triv show today made me sick. Say what you want about illegally burning down ROTC buildings and what have you...it was the war protestors that stopped the carnage over there.

Hey Triv...you need to shut the fuck up. You were drafted and you never served.

Instead of criticizing the students across America, you should pay them homage for indirectly stopping the madness.

I can't stand chickenhawks like Triv and Limbaugh...they all make me want to vomit.

Nothing like having non-students throw rocks at young guys with guns who just came off duty of being shot at by striking truckers.

I hate Triv

I heard today on the radio that in 1970 Nick Saban was a freshman at KSU I didn't know that until today.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Today marks the 40th anniversary of the Kent State shooting where Four Kent State students were tragically killed by National Guardsmen. The incident, still controversial today, marks a dark and bloody time in our country's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-05-03-kent-state_N.htm

Also, as an OSU alum, in one of my history courses I took a look at the OSU riots, which took place which before Kent, at the end of April ,1970. Here are some background and photos from the OSU library.
http://library.osu.edu/sites/exhibits/1970demonstrations/background.htm

My favorite is the girl flipping off the soldiers.

Glad you enjoyed that.

I certainly enjoyed worrying whether my father (a Guardsman who worked those riots in Columbus) would be hit by bricks or other debris the "students" were throwing. Mostly, however, he ended up getting hit with feces and urine, although he had more than a few stories about dangerous stuff being thrown his way.

What happened at Kent was a real tragedy and you never want to see young people needlessly killed -- but with all the violence that was happening on campuses, it's remarkable more didn't get shot.

The restraint of what was mostly very inexperienced Guardsmen in this situation was quite remarkable, given the abuse they took.

Of course, nobody wants to talk about that. It's almost never a part of the stories you read about that era.

Writerbuckeye wrote:

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Today marks the 40th anniversary of the Kent State shooting where Four Kent State students were tragically killed by National Guardsmen. The incident, still controversial today, marks a dark and bloody time in our country's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-05-03-kent-state_N.htm

Also, as an OSU alum, in one of my history courses I took a look at the OSU riots, which took place which before Kent, at the end of April ,1970. Here are some background and photos from the OSU library.
http://library.osu.edu/sites/exhibits/1970demonstrations/background.htm

My favorite is the girl flipping off the soldiers.

Glad you enjoyed that.

I certainly enjoyed worrying whether my father (a Guardsman who worked those riots in Columbus) would be hit by bricks or other debris the "students" were throwing. Mostly, however, he ended up getting hit with feces and urine, although he had more than a few stories about dangerous stuff being thrown his way.

What happened at Kent was a real tragedy and you never want to see young people needlessly killed -- but with all the violence that was happening on campuses, it's remarkable more didn't get shot.

The restraint of what was mostly very inexperienced Guardsmen in this situation was quite remarkable, given the abuse they took.

Of course, nobody wants to talk about that. It's almost never a part of the stories you read about that era.

I actually completely agree with you.

Although, I do think it was a little much to completely tear gas off campus at OSU. But, I do think the guards restraint is an important item to include in the discussion.Gas, while bad, is much better than bullets.

Tin Soldiers and Nixon's Army. Most people do not know that the Guardsmsn were walking away from the students....stopped...turned and fired away. 2 of those killed were verified to be innocent bystanders.

It was the abolition of student deferments that set off the national timebomb. Nixon ran on an agenda of stopping the war (1968)in Vietnam.....that LBJ had made numerous mistakes. Once elected, Nixon expanded the war by bombing Cambodia...and then Laos.

I remember my dad telling me that these kids got what they deserved.......pathetic. Just another unjust war run by the chickenhawks...and sending other people's kids to die.

Another video with pics.

Just a tragic situation for all involved.

Just walked by the site where the bodies were after the shootings a few hours ago.



There is always something eerie about that parking lot at night, but tonight was just weird. Just some weirdo hippies sitting in the middle of them in some trance...fuckin' weird.

I learned more about this my freshman year here than I even care to remember.

SQ_Crazies wrote: There is always something eerie about that parking lot at night, but tonight was just weird. Just some weirdo hippies sitting in the middle of them in some trance...fuckin' weird.

Weirdo hippies? True...that was indeed how it was 40 years ago. This whole country was weirded out.

Now our nation is weirded out by a different set of douche bags.

Instead of politically active long-haired ultra- leftist pot smoking hippies taunting National Guardsmen and torching ROTC buildings (who now run this country by the way); now we have apathetic apolitical tattooed body-pierced crack heads more concerned about scoring their next buzz than being concerned about this country's future.

Footwedge wrote: I remember my dad telling me that these kids got what they deserved.......pathetic. Just another unjust war run by the chickenhawks...and sending other people's kids to die.

Foot, I agree with your sentiments regarding just war. Your chickenhawk shtick diminishes your argument. Just war has very little to to with ones combat experience. Those that have been in combat humbly agree that the just cause for propagating war does not rest solely in their hands. History is full of examples of both. Take a little read through history and see what you find.

Many aggressors and propagators of unjust war throughout history were those who held a military background or combat experience. Hitler in the 20th century is a case in point. Some of the founders of this country had no military experience. Argue the just or unjust reason for war. Diverting from that weakens the argument.

majorspark wrote: Foot, I agree with your sentiments regarding just war. Your chickenhawk shtick diminishes your argument. Just war has very little to to with ones combat experience. Those that have been in combat humbly agree that the just cause for propagating war does not rest solely in their hands. History is full of examples of both. Take a little read through history and see what you find.

Many aggressors and propagators of unjust war throughout history were those who held a military background or combat experience. Hitler in the 20th century is a case in point. Some of the founders of this country had no military experience. Argue the just or unjust reason for war. Diverting from that weakens the argument.

Although "chickenhawk," when it comes down to it is just an ad hominem attack, perhaps what people are really getting at when they call people a "chickenhawk" is this notion that perhaps philosophical justifications for what might appear to be a just war ring hollow when you're in the Shit. Perhaps, maybe, what seemed like a Just War behind a podium or a microphone, doesn't seem quite that way when you're looking in eyes of another unlucky young kid with a gun in his hands who's on the other side and you have to try to crush his hopes and dreams and make sure his parents out live him before he does it to you.

I don't know, one of the first things I learned in philosophy is that just because someone's a hypocrite doesn't mean their argument is wrong...but maybe it's harder to see how their argument could be right when it comes to war and they've never been a warrior.

believer wrote: Weirdo hippies? True...that was indeed how it was 40 years ago. This whole country was weirded out.

Now our nation is weirded out by a different set of douche bags.

Instead of politically active long-haired ultra- leftist pot smoking hippies taunting National Guardsmen and torching ROTC buildings (who now run this country by the way); now we have apathetic apolitical tattooed body-pierced crack heads more concerned about scoring their next buzz than being concerned about this country's future.

And the 'weirdo hippies' of the 60's and 70's are now in charge of academia, media, law, and government. It's a beautiful thing.

QuakerOats wrote:

believer wrote: Weirdo hippies? True...that was indeed how it was 40 years ago. This whole country was weirded out.

Now our nation is weirded out by a different set of douche bags.

Instead of politically active long-haired ultra- leftist pot smoking hippies taunting National Guardsmen and torching ROTC buildings (who now run this country by the way); now we have apathetic apolitical tattooed body-pierced crack heads more concerned about scoring their next buzz than being concerned about this country's future.

And the 'weirdo hippies' of the 60's and 70's are now in charge of academia, media, law, and government. It's a beautiful thing.

which would explain why the country is in such great shape :rolleyes:

majorspark wrote:

Footwedge wrote: I remember my dad telling me that these kids got what they deserved.......pathetic. Just another unjust war run by the chickenhawks...and sending other people's kids to die.

Foot, I agree with your sentiments regarding just war. Your chickenhawk shtick diminishes your argument. Just war has very little to to with ones combat experience. Those that have been in combat humbly agree that the just cause for propagating war does not rest solely in their hands. History is full of examples of both. Take a little read through history and see what you find.

No Spark my use of the word "chickenhawk" is hard core and cuts to the chase. If the term strikes a nerve with you or any other chatterers, then my mission has been accomplished.

It should strike a nerve and the more emotion elicited by using such a term, the better I feel. Sorry.

It is not normal for any rational human being to cold bloodedly kill fellow members of his own species through the order of the state. Especially when the members of the state never themselves donned the uniform.

Footwedge wrote:

majorspark wrote:

Footwedge wrote: I remember my dad telling me that these kids got what they deserved.......pathetic. Just another unjust war run by the chickenhawks...and sending other people's kids to die.

Foot, I agree with your sentiments regarding just war. Your chickenhawk shtick diminishes your argument. Just war has very little to to with ones combat experience. Those that have been in combat humbly agree that the just cause for propagating war does not rest solely in their hands. History is full of examples of both. Take a little read through history and see what you find.

No Spark my use of the word "chickenhawk" is hard core and cuts to the chase. If the term strikes a nerve with you or any other chatterers, then my mission has been accomplished.

It should strike a nerve and the more emotion elicited by using such a term, the better I feel. Sorry.

It is not normal for any rational human being to cold bloodedly kill fellow members of his own species through the order of the state. Especially when the members of the state never themselves donned the uniform.

so it is normal to destroy property and throw rocks and other objects at people who have nothing to do with the issue at hand all while hiding in a crowd of "innocent" people?

^^^I definitely think so. The president had lied to college kids all across America at that time regarding ending the war in Vietnam. Funny how Nixon's daughters were never drafted. Apparently you have forgotten that American kids were sent to fight a war that could not be won and in a country that posed no threat to the US nor hindered our way of life, nor hindered our freedoms in any fashion.

It is my opinion that these "radicals" did in fact end the war over there. God bless the radicals. They very well could have saved my life....given the fact my draft number was 59. I feel indebted to all of them.

Footwedge wrote:It is not normal for any rational human being to cold bloodedly kill fellow members of his own species through the order of the state. Especially when the members of the state never themselves donned the uniform.

Been going on for thousands of years. Rational? Nope. Gonna stop? Also nope.

Footwedge wrote:Funny how Nixon's doughters were never drafted.

When did women become eligible for the draft? Funny how Nixon himself was a Naval officer in WWII.

^^My point exactly. And LBJ's daughters were never drafted either.

^^^Oh I wholeheartedly agree. I think all women should be required to register for the draft and all able-bodied males should serve a minimum of 2 years of compulsory military service after high school.

Footwedge wrote: ^^^I definitely think so. The president had lied to college kids all across America at that time regarding ending the war in Vietnam. Funny how Nixon's daughters were never drafted. Apparently you have forgotten that American kids were sent to fight a war that could not be won and in a country that posed no threat to the US nor hindered our way of life, nor hindered our freedoms in any fashion.

It is my opinion that these "radicals" did in fact end the war over there. God bless the radicals. They very well could have saved my life....given the fact my draft number was 59. I feel indebted to all of them.

those radicals may have saved your life, but there were 4 dead students that were killed because of the radicals.

and in the military sense we could have and were winning in vietnam. the north won the war because they played to the american public and politicians(just look at the Tet offensive, it was a defeat for the north, but you wouldnt think that listening to the media). instead our military fought with one arm tied behind their back and we lost.