KnightRyder wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: Another thing to think about guys, if there's no cap next year, what does it matter? We're one of the wealthiest teams overall thanks to Lerner. Is another 1 million a season going to make that big of a difference?

I'm thinking that when this is all said and done, he's going to get a 2.1M deal with incentives for offensive touches and KR TD's.

your right about the cap , but in 2011 the owners plan on locking the players out , in hopes of getting a cap back in place. so they dont want to get in too deep on long term big dollar deals

True, but how realistic is a lockout. These owners are going to lose even more money by not playing the games and getting ticket sales, while losing future ticket sales because of fan frustration, rather than just agreeing on the CBA.

I didnt say this season he had a sub par season. I said these players all wanna renegotiate contracts they signed after having great years. Well then if you have a mediocre season pay back what you werent worth!! LOL

september63 wrote: I didnt say this season he had a sub par season. I said these players all wanna renegotiate contracts they signed after having great years. Well then if you have a mediocre season pay back what you werent worth!! LOL

I still don't understand how that's relevant to the Cribbs situation then. He hasn't had any mediocre seasons. He's always been a play maker for us, and has only been consistently great.

He should fire his agent then, If he wants to blame someone. He signed the contract didnt he?

september63 wrote: He should fire his agent then, If he wants to blame someone. He signed the contract didnt he?

You're saying that in the middle of 2006 when he signed his last deal, his agent should have asked for 14-15M over 6 years despite being a season and a half short of being an UDFA signing?

You're being irrational.

and IMO Cribbs is being a whiny bitch!! Just bc the Bears over paid Hester doesnt mean the Browns have to renegotiate Cribbs contract after every other season.

september63 wrote: and IMO Cribbs is being a whiny bitch!! Just bc the Bears over paid Hester doesnt mean the Browns have to renegotiate Cribbs contract after every other season.

You're clearly uneducated on the situation.

I would understand if he was asking for Hester money.

But you would think that the top kick returner in the NFL would get paid better than the top 10 paid KR's in the NFL.

It's about what he's earned. It's not like he's asking for Hester's 5.5+ million a year. He's simply asking for around 2-3M with some incentives thrown in.

He's making 650k this season. How would you feel if you were the best special teamer in the league and made barely over what the vet minimum is?

You're being naive about this whole ordeal.

I still say we just trade him for a 1st rounder!!

miller45452003 wrote: I still say we just trade him for a 1st rounder!!

I'm sure you're being sarcastic, but if not, that deal will never happen, and any team that made the deal, should have the GM fired on the spot.

And I can almost guarantee that if someone offered a #1 for Cribbs, he'd be gone.

HighRoller74 wrote:

miller45452003 wrote: I still say we just trade him for a 1st rounder!!

I'm sure you're being sarcastic, but if not, that deal will never happen, and any team that made the deal, should have the GM fired on the spot.

And I can almost guarantee that if someone offered a #1 for Cribbs, he'd be gone.

The greatest kick returner of all time is not worth a first round draft pick??

DaBrowns41 wrote:

september63 wrote: and IMO Cribbs is being a whiny bitch!! Just bc the Bears over paid Hester doesnt mean the Browns have to renegotiate Cribbs contract after every other season.

You're clearly uneducated on the situation.

I would understand if he was asking for Hester money.

But you would think that the top kick returner in the NFL would get paid better than the top 10 paid KR's in the NFL.

It's about what he's earned. It's not like he's asking for Hester's 5.5+ million a year. He's simply asking for around 2-3M with some incentives thrown in.

He's making 650k this season. How would you feel if you were the best special teamer in the league and made barely over what the vet minimum is?

You're being naive about this whole ordeal.

Let me sum up things for you. He, nor his agent, have mentioned a final figure in which they will accept. They, at one time, said they expected Devin Hester type money. They also said that 2.5 mil per season would be a STARTING point towards negotiations. I apologize that I don't feel any special teams player, Cribbs included, deserves that kind of GUARANTEED money. Now, if he wanted to throw in escalators, such as return td's net a bonus, return yardage goal nets a bonus, x yards offensively nets a bonus, etc. then I'm all for it. This year, he clearly deserved to be paid more, BUT, what happens if we pay him based on the past, and next year he averages only 21 yards per kick return and gets no special teams td's, is he gonna start giving money back? Of course not. His contracted needs to be based on a fair base salary, and reachable incentives, and I doubt he or his POS agent are willing to do so. Plenty of good football teams get by without good special teams play. Hell the Colts gave up a KO return for a TD to Hester to open their Super Bowl, managed to win it though. Our return game may suffer, but our complete special teams play, and coaching is way above average. If we were a solid offensive and defensive football team, this would not be an issue, but because as of today, we aren't a very good team, people have reason to complain, and he has reason to bitch. Oh well. If the organization does the right things from this point forward, builds up the talent on the O and the D, we aren't going to miss 4 special teams touchdowns as much as people pretend we will. I love what he brings on the field, but the amount of money he seems to feel he is worth is ridiculous. And for those who say "well its not fair, a team can cut a player if they are getting paid too much and not performing to expectations, or ask them to take a pay cut" give me a break. Players KNOW thats how the sports world works, if they were afraid of this situation occurring, or worried that 660k per year to play football wouldn't be enough bread to feed their families, maybe they should seek a different career path. I have zero sympathy for a man that signed the dotted line only a few seasons ago saying that he agrees to play for 6 more seasons and make 6.77 million dollars. Anquan Boldin did the same shit, took a big chunk of his salary as a signing bonus, and as soon as he cashed that check, wanted to renegotiate his contract. Do they deserve to be paid a little more, most likely yes, but they have zero leverage at all, and get no tears from me. You got offered over twice what you currently make, take it, ask for incentives to be thrown in, which I doubt Cleveland would say no to, or leave it, and get a real job with your business degree.

Agree 100%.

I'm with those sayin he needs to zip it and take the deal. Who's to say that if they give him the raise this year and then has a better year next year, that he doesn't pull the same crap and whine and demand a raise or threaten to sit out? They offered him about 2x as much as his old contract. And then he says he demands a trade...ok, well what happens if we don't trade him? Obviously highly unlikely it would go this far but does he not play NFL football for 3 years? Sure teams would be jumping all over a guy who hasn't played in the NFL for 3 years.

Rumors have it Cribbs is going to the 49ers. Cleveland is making a HUGE mistake. Best player on the damn team and they can't get it done. Pathetic. This is why it's so hard to be a Browns fan.

TolCentralCath wrote: Rumors have it Cribbs is going to the 49ers. Cleveland is making a HUGE mistake. Best player on the damn team and they can't get it done. Pathetic. This is why it's so hard to be a Browns fan.

Where is this coming from??

h2thaizzo wrote:
Let me sum up things for you. He, nor his agent, have mentioned a final figure in which they will accept. They, at one time, said they expected Devin Hester type money. They also said that 2.5 mil per season would be a STARTING point towards negotiations. I apologize that I don't feel any special teams player, Cribbs included, deserves that kind of GUARANTEED money. Now, if he wanted to throw in escalators, such as return td's net a bonus, return yardage goal nets a bonus, x yards offensively nets a bonus, etc. then I'm all for it. This year, he clearly deserved to be paid more, BUT, what happens if we pay him based on the past, and next year he averages only 21 yards per kick return and gets no special teams td's, is he gonna start giving money back? Of course not. His contracted needs to be based on a fair base salary, and reachable incentives, and I doubt he or his POS agent are willing to do so. Plenty of good football teams get by without good special teams play. Hell the Colts gave up a KO return for a TD to Hester to open their Super Bowl, managed to win it though. Our return game may suffer, but our complete special teams play, and coaching is way above average. If we were a solid offensive and defensive football team, this would not be an issue, but because as of today, we aren't a very good team, people have reason to complain, and he has reason to bitch. Oh well. If the organization does the right things from this point forward, builds up the talent on the O and the D, we aren't going to miss 4 special teams touchdowns as much as people pretend we will. I love what he brings on the field, but the amount of money he seems to feel he is worth is ridiculous. And for those who say "well its not fair, a team can cut a player if they are getting paid too much and not performing to expectations, or ask them to take a pay cut" give me a break. Players KNOW thats how the sports world works, if they were afraid of this situation occurring, or worried that 660k per year to play football wouldn't be enough bread to feed their families, maybe they should seek a different career path. I have zero sympathy for a man that signed the dotted line only a few seasons ago saying that he agrees to play for 6 more seasons and make 6.77 million dollars. Anquan Boldin did the same shit, took a big chunk of his salary as a signing bonus, and as soon as he cashed that check, wanted to renegotiate his contract. Do they deserve to be paid a little more, most likely yes, but they have zero leverage at all, and get no tears from me. You got offered over twice what you currently make, take it, ask for incentives to be thrown in, which I doubt Cleveland would say no to, or leave it, and get a real job with your business degree.

Basically you're saying "I don't want to give a guy his deserved money, because he may not play well next year".

If every owner in the NFL thought like that, nobody would ever get signed, and the game would cease to exist.

This game is about risks. You take risks. This isn't 60 million dollars over 5 years. This is 15 mil incentive laden deal over 5 or 6 years.

He wants incentives, he's fine with that. He just wants something around 2.5 a season. I mean, the guy is barely making more than what the vet minimum is for a 4 year guy.

He's only given the Browns 110% since he put on that jersey, and he's just asking for a couple million dollars. It's not a big deal.

I would tend to agree with you if this were about a HUGE contract, but he's already stated that he does NOT want Hester money. He just wants somewhere between 2-3M with incentives.

http://cle.scout.com/2/935628.html

"There's no way I'll play another down for the Browns without the new contract,'' he (Cribbs) said. "They won't let me sit, because I have value. They'd be forced to trade me.''

Being a bitch. You signed the contract for 5 years. I am getting more pissed off at the shit he keeps saying. I love Cleveland blah blah. If you loved it you'd stfu and sit back and see what happens and hope it gets done. You wouldn't have your agent on STO and be bitching on twitter about it. He is acting like a child.

iclfan2 wrote: "There's no way I'll play another down for the Browns without the new contract,'' he (Cribbs) said. "They won't let me sit, because I have value. They'd be forced to trade me.''

Being a bitch. You signed the contract for 5 years. I am getting more pissed off at the shit he keeps saying. I love Cleveland blah blah. If you loved it you'd stfu and sit back and see what happens and hope it gets done. You wouldn't have your agent on STO and be bitching on twitter about it. He is acting like a child.

I'd be pissed if this came out of the blue, but he's been quiet for 2 seasons now. He was promised by Savage, Lerner, Romeo, then Kokonis and Mangini.

He never even asked for a new contract in the beginning because he knew he had just signed one. He was just promised that he'd get a new deal because of his performance. Now that he was promised that, he's just trying to get what people said he'd get.

Can't blame a guy for wanting money that was promised to him, especially when he's done nothing but be a team player, and leader and has always been consistently great for this team.

TolCentralCath wrote: Rumors have it Cribbs is going to the 49ers. Cleveland is making a HUGE mistake. Best player on the damn team and they can't get it done. Pathetic. This is why it's so hard to be a Browns fan.

Because they don't want to be THAT team to offer a strictly special teams ace an asinine contract? I think they are holding out hope that bringing in football savvy guys like Holmgren will enable them to add enough talent on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that will at some point in the near future, allow the fans to forget about the days when our special teams were the bright spot of our team. Our special teams has always been pretty solid, we DON'T need 4 special teams touchdowns if we improve the other aspects of the game.

There's a reason why Cribbs is still a Brown now, and thats because the value for a special teams player isn't nearly enough to warrant us trading him away. If we were offered a second round pick for him at the deadline, do you really think he wouldn't have been moved? I think it would have been a definite trade. Teams like the Colts, are willing to pay him to be there, but they aren't gonna give up a second or hell, even a third, in order to get a special teams star. Why would they? They only managed to win one Super Bowl and over 100 games the last decade without that aspect of the game being very good.

I'd trade Cribbs for Ray McDonald and another player or a 5th round pick or something, and run away with it. He will not be missed as much as he feels he will, nor as much as some fans feel he will. We have enough mid-late round picks to draft a return specialist, a'la Jacoby Ford, Brandon Banks, Ray Fisher, Brandon James, Trindon Holliday, Emmanuel Sanders, etc. Our special teams unit is already good enough without Cribbs to be able to maintain their solid kick coverage play.

DaBrowns41 wrote: I'd be pissed if this came out of the blue, but he's been quiet for 2 seasons now. He was promised by Savage, Lerner, Romeo, then Kokonis and Mangini.

He never even asked for a new contract in the beginning because he knew he had just signed one. He was just promised that he'd get a new deal because of his performance. Now that he was promised that, he's just trying to get what people said he'd get.

Can't blame a guy for wanting money that was promised to him, especially when he's done nothing but be a team player, and leader and has always been consistently great for this team.

He's only played 2 years of the contract. He wanted a new contract after ONE year. That is ridiculous. And I don't care what Savage or Crennel or Mangini told him. New President, new rules. Don't sign a contract if you're going to complain at about it after 1 year. I hope they give him 2 millionish a year, but you need to take your orange and brown glasses off and realize he is being a whiny little baby about all of this.

pkebker wrote:

TolCentralCath wrote: Rumors have it Cribbs is going to the 49ers. Cleveland is making a HUGE mistake. Best player on the damn team and they can't get it done. Pathetic. This is why it's so hard to be a Browns fan.

Where is this coming from??

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2ffeatures%2frumors

Have to be an insider member to read it but you can still see that it says it's a rumor.

DaBrowns41 wrote:

h2thaizzo wrote:
Let me sum up things for you. He, nor his agent, have mentioned a final figure in which they will accept. They, at one time, said they expected Devin Hester type money. They also said that 2.5 mil per season would be a STARTING point towards negotiations. I apologize that I don't feel any special teams player, Cribbs included, deserves that kind of GUARANTEED money. Now, if he wanted to throw in escalators, such as return td's net a bonus, return yardage goal nets a bonus, x yards offensively nets a bonus, etc. then I'm all for it. This year, he clearly deserved to be paid more, BUT, what happens if we pay him based on the past, and next year he averages only 21 yards per kick return and gets no special teams td's, is he gonna start giving money back? Of course not. His contracted needs to be based on a fair base salary, and reachable incentives, and I doubt he or his POS agent are willing to do so. Plenty of good football teams get by without good special teams play. Hell the Colts gave up a KO return for a TD to Hester to open their Super Bowl, managed to win it though. Our return game may suffer, but our complete special teams play, and coaching is way above average. If we were a solid offensive and defensive football team, this would not be an issue, but because as of today, we aren't a very good team, people have reason to complain, and he has reason to bitch. Oh well. If the organization does the right things from this point forward, builds up the talent on the O and the D, we aren't going to miss 4 special teams touchdowns as much as people pretend we will. I love what he brings on the field, but the amount of money he seems to feel he is worth is ridiculous. And for those who say "well its not fair, a team can cut a player if they are getting paid too much and not performing to expectations, or ask them to take a pay cut" give me a break. Players KNOW thats how the sports world works, if they were afraid of this situation occurring, or worried that 660k per year to play football wouldn't be enough bread to feed their families, maybe they should seek a different career path. I have zero sympathy for a man that signed the dotted line only a few seasons ago saying that he agrees to play for 6 more seasons and make 6.77 million dollars. Anquan Boldin did the same shit, took a big chunk of his salary as a signing bonus, and as soon as he cashed that check, wanted to renegotiate his contract. Do they deserve to be paid a little more, most likely yes, but they have zero leverage at all, and get no tears from me. You got offered over twice what you currently make, take it, ask for incentives to be thrown in, which I doubt Cleveland would say no to, or leave it, and get a real job with your business degree.

Basically you're saying "I don't want to give a guy his deserved money, because he may not play well next year".

If every owner in the NFL thought like that, nobody would ever get signed, and the game would cease to exist.

This game is about risks. You take risks. This isn't 60 million dollars over 5 years. This is 15 mil incentive laden deal over 5 or 6 years.

He wants incentives, he's fine with that. He just wants something around 2.5 a season. I mean, the guy is barely making more than what the vet minimum is for a 4 year guy.

He's only given the Browns 110% since he put on that jersey, and he's just asking for a couple million dollars. It's not a big deal.

I would tend to agree with you if this were about a HUGE contract, but he's already stated that he does NOT want Hester money. He just wants somewhere between 2-3M with incentives.

http://cle.scout.com/2/935628.html

He is still going about it the wrong way. I've not seen one place where he stated he only wanted 2-3 mil, and the link you presented requires a subscription that I don't have. Negotiations start somewhere, it was his agent that said 2.5 million would have been a starting point towards negotiations. Of course his agent also claims that the Browns gave him a "take it or leave it" 1.4 mil per season offer, it makes them look better by saying so, but there's no proof of this. He and the agent tried to turn this shit into Holmgren's #1 priority, and it isn't, and they can't live with that. Do I want him here, sure. But I back the organization on not allowing him to be an ass and try to run the show.

h2thaizzo wrote:

TolCentralCath wrote: Rumors have it Cribbs is going to the 49ers. Cleveland is making a HUGE mistake. Best player on the damn team and they can't get it done. Pathetic. This is why it's so hard to be a Browns fan.

Because they don't want to be THAT team to offer a strictly special teams ace an asinine contract? I think they are holding out hope that bringing in football savvy guys like Holmgren will enable them to add enough talent on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that will at some point in the near future, allow the fans to forget about the days when our special teams were the bright spot of our team. Our special teams has always been pretty solid, we DON'T need 4 special teams touchdowns if we improve the other aspects of the game.

There's a reason why Cribbs is still a Brown now, and thats because the value for a special teams player isn't nearly enough to warrant us trading him away. If we were offered a second round pick for him at the deadline, do you really think he wouldn't have been moved? I think it would have been a definite trade. Teams like the Colts, are willing to pay him to be there, but they aren't gonna give up a second or hell, even a third, in order to get a special teams star. Why would they? They only managed to win one Super Bowl and over 100 games the last decade without that aspect of the game being very good.

I'd trade Cribbs for Ray McDonald and another player or a 5th round pick or something, and run away with it. He will not be missed as much as he feels he will, nor as much as some fans feel he will. We have enough mid-late round picks to draft a return specialist, a'la Jacoby Ford, Brandon Banks, Ray Fisher, Brandon James, Trindon Holliday, Emmanuel Sanders, etc. Our special teams unit is already good enough without Cribbs to be able to maintain their solid kick coverage play.

So before him, who did we have? It's not as easy finding a KR/PR as you think. It's not as easy to find a team player, and a leader like you think. It's also not easy to find a guy that goes 100% every single play he's on the field.

2.5M isn't much money. There's no reason why they shouldn't pay him, and there's no reason why they won't.

Cribbs will be in Cleveland in 2010.

h2thaizzo wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:

h2thaizzo wrote:
Let me sum up things for you. He, nor his agent, have mentioned a final figure in which they will accept. They, at one time, said they expected Devin Hester type money. They also said that 2.5 mil per season would be a STARTING point towards negotiations. I apologize that I don't feel any special teams player, Cribbs included, deserves that kind of GUARANTEED money. Now, if he wanted to throw in escalators, such as return td's net a bonus, return yardage goal nets a bonus, x yards offensively nets a bonus, etc. then I'm all for it. This year, he clearly deserved to be paid more, BUT, what happens if we pay him based on the past, and next year he averages only 21 yards per kick return and gets no special teams td's, is he gonna start giving money back? Of course not. His contracted needs to be based on a fair base salary, and reachable incentives, and I doubt he or his POS agent are willing to do so. Plenty of good football teams get by without good special teams play. Hell the Colts gave up a KO return for a TD to Hester to open their Super Bowl, managed to win it though. Our return game may suffer, but our complete special teams play, and coaching is way above average. If we were a solid offensive and defensive football team, this would not be an issue, but because as of today, we aren't a very good team, people have reason to complain, and he has reason to bitch. Oh well. If the organization does the right things from this point forward, builds up the talent on the O and the D, we aren't going to miss 4 special teams touchdowns as much as people pretend we will. I love what he brings on the field, but the amount of money he seems to feel he is worth is ridiculous. And for those who say "well its not fair, a team can cut a player if they are getting paid too much and not performing to expectations, or ask them to take a pay cut" give me a break. Players KNOW thats how the sports world works, if they were afraid of this situation occurring, or worried that 660k per year to play football wouldn't be enough bread to feed their families, maybe they should seek a different career path. I have zero sympathy for a man that signed the dotted line only a few seasons ago saying that he agrees to play for 6 more seasons and make 6.77 million dollars. Anquan Boldin did the same shit, took a big chunk of his salary as a signing bonus, and as soon as he cashed that check, wanted to renegotiate his contract. Do they deserve to be paid a little more, most likely yes, but they have zero leverage at all, and get no tears from me. You got offered over twice what you currently make, take it, ask for incentives to be thrown in, which I doubt Cleveland would say no to, or leave it, and get a real job with your business degree.

Basically you're saying "I don't want to give a guy his deserved money, because he may not play well next year".

If every owner in the NFL thought like that, nobody would ever get signed, and the game would cease to exist.

This game is about risks. You take risks. This isn't 60 million dollars over 5 years. This is 15 mil incentive laden deal over 5 or 6 years.

He wants incentives, he's fine with that. He just wants something around 2.5 a season. I mean, the guy is barely making more than what the vet minimum is for a 4 year guy.

He's only given the Browns 110% since he put on that jersey, and he's just asking for a couple million dollars. It's not a big deal.

I would tend to agree with you if this were about a HUGE contract, but he's already stated that he does NOT want Hester money. He just wants somewhere between 2-3M with incentives.

http://cle.scout.com/2/935628.html

He is still going about it the wrong way. I've not seen one place where he stated he only wanted 2-3 mil, and the link you presented requires a subscription that I don't have. Negotiations start somewhere, it was his agent that said 2.5 million would have been a starting point towards negotiations. Of course his agent also claims that the Browns gave him a "take it or leave it" 1.4 mil per season offer, it makes them look better by saying so, but there's no proof of this. He and the agent tried to turn this shit into Holmgren's #1 priority, and it isn't, and they can't live with that. Do I want him here, sure. But I back the organization on not allowing him to be an ass and try to run the show.

Dawn Aponte was quoted as saying "it'll be the same offer tomorrow, the same offer in March, and the same offer in September."

Says so in the article.

Has anyone ever thought that he doesn't want to be in Cleveland? Since he is under contract, his only way out is to act like this. Cant blame him.