posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI don’t prefer any of it . I’m asking if people who are pro life understand the consequences of banning abortion, and if they are willing to make the necessary accommodations in our society to take care of thousands if not millions of children born into households that will not have the means to take care of them.
Yes, pro lifers are fully aware that being pro life means more people will be born. It’s kind of the idea.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI would hope this too. But assuming this doesn’t happen for all of them, are we willing to make the sacrifices necessary to support the rest and any resulting consequences?
Quite willing via voluntary charitable donations. Less willing but accepting of government confiscation of income for such purposes.
posted by geeblockNo contraceptive including a vasectomy is 100 percent .
Contraception doesn’t need to be 100% to understand that sexual intercourse has the distinct possibility to cause pregnancy.
Having sex accepts this risk just like eating steak everyday automatically accepts the risk of a heart attack or smoking accepts the risk of lung cancer.
By engaging in that activity you accept the risk and the consequences/responsibilities that may come with said activity, in this case pregnancy.
posted by jmogYes, pro lifers are fully aware that being pro life means more people will be born. It’s kind of the idea.
Wasn’t the point of the question. It seems to me that many people that are pro-life have not reflected on the societal effects of banning abortion. They know what happens today, but haven’t considered tomorrow so to speak.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieObviously not my question, but thank you for the invite nonetheless.
Keep them women pregnant and in the home. Those kids can figure it out for themselves how to survive once they're alive.
That's the pro-life moto.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieWasn’t the point of the question. It seems to me that many people that are pro-life have not reflected on the societal effects of banning abortion. They know what happens today, but haven’t considered tomorrow so to speak.
That’s an opinion, doesn’t make it fact. You have no idea what pro lifers have contemplated.
That’s pure conjecture.
posted by kizer permanenteKeep them women pregnant and in the home. Those kids can figure it out for themselves how to survive once they're alive.
That's the pro-life moto.
100% wrong, but keep truing
This should come down to a simple couple step logical discussion without any politics or religion involved.
1. Do human lives/life have intrinsic value/rights? The logical answer, according to all our laws, is yes (you can't murder someone you don't like).
2. If human life has intrinsic value and rights, when does human life begin and who should determine when that timeframe is?
3. I think its safe to say that most would agree that academic biologists should be determining when human life begins right? Not religions (Christians/Jews/Muslims), not politicians (Ds or Rs).
4. Once that life is determined to "begin" it deserves the same Constitutional protections as everyone else has, like say a 5 year old we all agree is protected from harm.
5. With all that being said...
95% of biologists say life begins at conception.
posted by jmogThat’s an opinion, doesn’t make it fact. You have no idea what pro lifers have contemplated.
That’s pure conjecture.
Maybe I’m wrong. I just don’t hear it talked about, that’s all. It’s my opinion that some have not thought through the changes this will bring.
posted by jmogThat’s an opinion, doesn’t make it fact. You have no idea what pro lifers have contemplated.
That’s pure conjecture.
True, but what actual, practical plans are in place to handle the increase in children born to the poor and don't want the kid? Making abortions illegal would be the beginning of a plan, not the plan.
posted by jmog100% wrong, but keep truing
Sure lol. Pro-life has 1 platform. End abortion. That's the end goal.. There's nothing beyond that. Easy to stand outside of PP and picket. Harder to start social service programs to feed kids who cant eat.
posted by queencitybuckeyeTrue, but what actual, practical plans are in place to handle the increase in children born to the poor and don't want the kid? Making abortions illegal would be the beginning of a plan, not the plan.
At least you admit that the main reason for most abortions is not due to rape, incest, defects, etc. I’ll hand that to you.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieMaybe I’m wrong. I just don’t hear it talked about, that’s all. It’s my opinion that some have not thought through the changes this will bring.
Let’s assume for a minute you believed the fetus is alive which would make killing it murder.
If it was a random man/woman on the street that was being assaulted/murdered…
You’re first and most important thought is to prevent the murder.
Only after you have prevented the murder do you then worry about what is next, does the man/woman need help, money, a hospital, etc. You prevent the atrocity, then triage the immediate aftermath, then figure out the long term problems.
That’s how people think and act. Sorry you don’t understand why they are more worried about preventing what is murder to them than what happens after the murder.
posted by queencitybuckeyeTrue, but what actual, practical plans are in place to handle the increase in children born to the poor and don't want the kid? Making abortions illegal would be the beginning of a plan, not the plan.
Adoption, the pro choicers act like the kids would be thrown into the foster care system which is quite frankly asinine as no infant put up for adoption is in foster system. The foster system is kids that have been removed from their parents for various reasons.
Basically 100% of babies put up for adoption get adopted, the parents waiting list is extreme that want new babies which is why it is SO expensive to adopt. It costs $10s of $1000s on average to adopt. That price will drop significantly if abortion stopped tomorrow.
There are about 2 million couples currently in the US waiting to adopt a baby.
The idea that babies that are not aborted will all end up in the foster care system is about as asinine as saying 1+1=3.
posted by kizer permanenteSure lol. Pro-life has 1 platform. End abortion. That's the end goal.. There's nothing beyond that. Easy to stand outside of PP and picket. Harder to start social service programs to feed kids who cant eat.
Yes, you are right. The pro life movement’s goal is to end abortion, I guess congratulations on figuring that out.
Are you pissed that the American Cancer Society isn’t fighting diabetes? If not then your statement is kind of hypocritical.
posted by jmogYes, you are right. The pro life movement’s goal is to end abortion, I guess congratulations on figuring that out.
Are you pissed that the American Cancer Society isn’t fighting diabetes? If not then your statement is kind of hypocritical.
The big difference is the American Cancer society isn't advocating creating a whole new problem after fighting cancer lol.
posted by jmogAdoption, the pro choicers act like the kids would be thrown into the foster care system which is quite frankly asinine as no infant put up for adoption is in foster system. The foster system is kids that have been removed from their parents for various reasons.
Basically 100% of babies put up for adoption get adopted, the parents waiting list is extreme that want new babies which is why it is SO expensive to adopt. It costs $10s of $1000s on average to adopt. That price will drop significantly if abortion stopped tomorrow.
There are about 2 million couples currently in the US waiting to adopt a baby.
The idea that babies that are not aborted will all end up in the foster care system is about as asinine as saying 1+1=3.
You act like people are just beating down doors to adopt ALL babies. You act like there are kids who go to the state as babies that never get adopted and bounce from foster care to foster care til the time out... and NEVER become productive members to society bc they never had a prayer. There's over 400,000 kids in adoption system right now.. most are black and brown kids. You're lying to yourself that everyone is just knocking down the doors to adopt them..even as babies.. What's that number going to be after states outlaw abortion?
This doesn't even address what adoption does psychologically to a mother.. but ya.. you never have to worry about that.. which is pretty much the root of the problem.
posted by like_thatAt least you admit that the main reason for most abortions is not due to rape, incest, defects, etc. I’ll hand that to you.
Not sure where you got me holding that opinion.
posted by kizer permanenteThe big difference is the American Cancer society isn't advocating creating a whole new problem after fighting cancer lol.
Having babies doesn’t create a problem. Hope that helps.
