Progressives, part 3...

posted by iclfan2

Can you tell me your definition of CRT? And do you support the 1619 project?

What does it matter? I don’t think schools are teaching crt. 

posted by geeblock

What does it matter? I don’t think schools are teaching crt. 

Oh ok. Super good argument. 

posted by iclfan2

Oh ok. Super good argument. 

U actually said u have evidence of schools teaching crt. I simply asked where. I’m not arguing crt with someone who gets their info from the sources you just stated and believes that it boils down to white people being racist. I’m fine with the Wikipedia definition of crt if you want to start there 

posted by geeblock

U actually said u have evidence of schools teaching crt. I simply asked where. I’m not arguing crt with someone who gets their info from the sources you just stated and believes that it boils down to white people being racist. I’m fine with the Wikipedia definition of crt if you want to start there 

Again, super good argument. I’m not arguing with someone who follows Rupar and Tariq Nasheed seriously. SEe WhaT I Did TheRe.

posted by iclfan2

Again, super good argument. I’m not arguing with someone who follows Rupar and Tariq Nasheed seriously. SEe WhaT I Did TheRe.

Lol so you have nothing like I thought. I guess we’ll just wait for jmog as usual. I’m sure like that will chime in a couple insults and one liners. Rinse repeat 

posted by geeblock

Lol so you have nothing like I thought. I guess we’ll just wait for jmog as usual. I’m sure like that will chime in a couple insults and one liners. Rinse repeat 

Still waiting for your definition. I told you mine. And do you think the 1619 project should be taught in schools. 

posted by iclfan2

Still waiting for your definition. I told you mine. And do you think the 1619 project should be taught in schools. 

I said I’m fine with the Wikipedia definition of crt. You are trying to move on to 1619 project lol cause you can’t find a school teaching crt.? 

posted by geeblock

I said I’m fine with the Wikipedia definition of crt. You are trying to move on to 1619 project lol cause you can’t find a school teaching crt.? 

I posted an entire thread of schools teaching crt. With sources from local news orgs. Just bc he’s right leaning doesn’t make the reporting and source documents wrong. If you live in a fantasy world where you don’t think they teach white man = bad then OK. These morons already tried changing math. Not a surprise they want to change history. Using Wikipedia as an out is so dumb. And ignoring the 1619 question. Those fucks gave that moron a Pulitzer and tried to add it to curriculums around the country. But accurate history! 

How many schools are actually teaching this?  Does anyone know?

posted by iclfan2

I posted an entire thread of schools teaching crt. With sources from local news orgs. Just bc he’s right leaning doesn’t make the reporting and source documents wrong. If you live in a fantasy world where you don’t think they teach white man = bad then OK. These morons already tried changing math. Not a surprise they want to change history. Using Wikipedia as an out is so dumb. And ignoring the 1619 question. Those fucks gave that moron a Pulitzer and tried to add it to curriculums around the country. But accurate history! 

I don’t “make up” definitions for things lol the definition is the definition. I’m so confused. The Wikipedia definition is about as accurate as you will find. 

posted by geeblock

Lol Quaker already posted this. But thanks for showing that you, Quaker and this woman both don’t understand what crt is. Or if you do you are being dishonest. 

Whether you agree with it or not, this isn’t even close to what it is. Stop fear mongering and making up fake issues. You can’t find a school that is teaching crt. 

Your post here kind of proves you don’t know what CRT is.

I didn’t say the woman was right or wrong I just posted someone else’s opinion.

So this woman, who sat in a class and saw her children’s homework around CRT doesn’t know what it is but you do?

posted by jmog

Your post here kind of proves you don’t know what CRT is.

I didn’t say the woman was right or wrong I just posted someone else’s opinion.

So this woman, who sat in a class and saw her children’s homework around CRT doesn’t know what it is but you do?

Her quote said that children were being separated into groups of permanently oppressed and permanently oppressors.. that’s not crt is what I was referring to, as it was taught to me 

posted by geeblock

I don’t “make up” definitions for things lol the definition is the definition. I’m so confused. The Wikipedia definition is about as accurate as you will find. 

So you agree with what Wikipedia says is the main premise of CRT?

“ Critical race theory is loosely unified by two common themes: first, that white supremacy, with its societal or structural racism, exists and maintains power through the law”

That our whole society, and government, in 2021, is racist and white supremacist?

You wanted to fall back to Wikipedia so let’s see if you are ok with teaching children that our whole society and government is white supremecist?

posted by geeblock

Her quote said that children were being separated into groups of permanently oppressed and permanently oppressors.. that’s not crt is what I was referring to 

But CRT is referring to white people as oppressors and all others as non-oppressors. She saw the school work, she sat in the class.

That is part of what they are teaching.

posted by jmog

So you agree with what Wikipedia says is the main premise of CRT?

“ Critical race theory is loosely unified by two common themes: first, that white supremacy, with its societal or structural racism, exists and maintains power through the law”

That our whole society, and government, in 2021, is racist and white supremacist?

You wanted to fall back to Wikipedia so let’s see if you are ok with teaching children that our whole society and government is white supremecist?

Sure, that is exactly the premise as I understand it 

So how many schools are teaching it?  I'm truly curious. Our Alabama state legislature is currently spending a lot of time on this, so my guess is few if any schools are teaching it - likely none in Alabama. As a general rule of thumb, if the Alabama general assembly is debating a social issue, it is something that is mentioned a lot by Tucker Carlson, but in reality is completely irrelevant. This state has a 200 year history of making the wrong call on most social topics. 

posted by geeblock

Sure, that is exactly the premise as I understand it 

And you don’t see calling our whole society and government white supremacists when in reality that isn’t a small fringe of the far right, a problem?

You mentioned “accurate history” earlier yet that would only be accurate through about the Civil War and partially through the 1960s, and even then only in mostly southern states.

And the system is using this to separate white as oppressors and all others as oppressees. That is what that women said and it is true.

posted by jmog

And you don’t see calling our whole society and government white supremacists when in reality that isn’t a small fringe of the far right, a problem?

You mentioned “accurate history” earlier yet that would only be accurate through about the Civil War and partially through the 1960s, and even then only in mostly southern states.

And the system is using this to separate white as oppressors and all others as oppressees. That is what that women said and it is true.

A lot to unpack there, but I appreciate u giving your side without insults and snide remarks. 

I will first say that I don’t believe crt as I was taught or leaned is so centered on people, but rather systems. I don’t think you have a date or time when you can tell me white supremacy ended. I certainly don’t think just because some laws were changed in the mid 60’s that the systems m place actually changed. Especially when many people opposed the legislation. People didn’t stop drinking just because alcohol was outlawed.   it was still many years before blacks could get into colleges en masse. I also think the judicial system and policing systems continued and still continue today to not be applied evenly. Other systems like access to housing,  education, and credit also took many years to be applied eventually. So that is my opinion on crt. 

But really that wasn’t why I even commented. I really was just pointing out that I don’t believe “crt” as a theory is being used correctly by this woman and others that I have seen. I also don’t believe outside of maybe a few rogue or overzealous teachers that “crt” is being taught in our schools that requires legislation. 

I feel like crt, teaching accurate history, and 1619 project are being all lumped into one barrel and trying to scare people, when really they are all separate conversations. 

I think we are in a better place than ever as a country and as black people than ever before. I think you have the opportunity to be whatever you want, but I also recognize that when you are black the window to make it can be much smaller than other groups and for many, that window is closed for them at a very young age. So in the end both things can be true. The answer is somewhere in the middle and I think most people get it. But the incendiary language being used  on the right is just as bad as the left that you make fun of daily.   

I will add. Kids see everything. They don’t need teachers to tell them if things are racist or not. There really isn’t much to be scared of. The kids with racist parents already know their parents are racist and the kids who have parents who aren’t already know that as well. A teacher or adult is not going to change their mind 

Many of the disadvantages listed are due to people being poor more than it is their race. The children of wealthy black parents are going to have advantages over the children of poor white parents. 

posted by geeblock

A lot to unpack there, but I appreciate u giving your side without insults and snide remarks. 

I will first say that I don’t believe crt as I was taught or leaned is so centered on people, but rather systems. I don’t think you have a date or time when you can tell me white supremacy ended. I certainly don’t think just because some laws were changed in the mid 60’s that the systems m place actually changed. Especially when many people opposed the legislation. People didn’t stop drinking just because alcohol was outlawed.   it was still many years before blacks could get into colleges en masse. I also think the judicial system and policing systems continued and still continue today to not be applied evenly. Other systems like access to housing,  education, and credit also took many years to be applied eventually. So that is my opinion on crt. 

But really that wasn’t why I even commented. I really was just pointing out that I don’t believe “crt” as a theory is being used correctly by this woman and others that I have seen. I also don’t believe outside of maybe a few rogue or overzealous teachers that “crt” is being taught in our schools that requires legislation. 

I feel like crt, teaching accurate history, and 1619 project are being all lumped into one barrel and trying to scare people, when really they are all separate conversations. 

I think we are in a better place than ever as a country and as black people than ever before. I think you have the opportunity to be whatever you want, but I also recognize that when you are black the window to make it can be much smaller than other groups and for many, that window is closed for them at a very young age. So in the end both things can be true. The answer is somewhere in the middle and I think most people get it. But the incendiary language being used  on the right is just as bad as the left that you make fun of daily.   

I will add. Kids see everything. They don’t need teachers to tell them if things are racist or not. There really isn’t much to be scared of. The kids with racist parents already know their parents are racist and the kids who have parents who aren’t already know that as well. A teacher or adult is not going to change their mind 

1. I only resort to snide remarks when someone says something utterly stupid.  You have yet to do that in this conversation.

2. You are conflating back and forth individual racism and a society/government based on white supremacy. Racism and white supremacy obviously still exists and didn’t stop in the 1960s. I never said it did. I said that the government didn’t sponsor racism and/or wasn’t run by a “cloud” of white supremacy anymore. That is the part that CRT, and yourself, still screws up. It assumes the government and society as a whole is still run by white supremacy which is so far from accurate. And you are the one that is asking for accurate history.