thedynasty1998 wrote: And I understand the love affair with him being from Ohio and being white (I know it sounds bad to say, but it's true).

I'm beginning to think that's why you don't like him. (It did sound bad, but I think it is true)

centralbucksfan wrote:Some of you had unrealistic expectations because of what he did in HS.

I think that's another reason people have a problem with Diebler

Writerbuckeye wrote: Do we believe Coach Thad Matta, who is one of only two coaches to win at least 20 games in every year he's been a D-1 coach, and who has not hesitated to start -- and stay with -- Jon Diebler throughout his entire career at Ohio State.

I know you were being sarcastic, but I'm going to go with Matta too

gabuckeye wrote: Some of you guys have no idea what a role player is, it is pretty obvious. Like CBF said, Diebler shoots 45% from the 3 - Point line, forces a guy to guard him at all times, opens up lanes for Evan Turner, and knocks down many shots when Turner or others create for him. Not to mention he is one of the best free throw shooters on the team. He does not make a lot of mistakes and is a smart player. He is a very beneficial part to this Ohio State team.

agree

Big Gain wrote: I can't believe how stupid and hateful people can be.

In the Purdue game,
DIEBLER made 50% of his shots. DIEBLER had SIX rebounds.
Lighty made 22% of his shots. Lighty had ZERO rebounds.
Why no WHINING about Lighty?
BTW, Lauderdale had 2 rebounds!
Turner had 3 Assists, DIEBLER had 2 Assists.
Lighty had 3 Steals, DIEBLER had 2 Steals.
Turner had 6 Turnovers, Lighty had 4 Turnovers, Buford had 3 Turnovers, DIEBLER had ONLY ONE Turnover.

Turner made 11 of 21 shots, Buford made 7 of 10 shots. You sickening WHINERS want Diebler to shoot more and Turner and Buford to shoot less in this game??? You wanted to lose this game???

Diebler is 3rd on the team in Steals.
Diebler has the 3rd best Turnover to Assist ratio.
Diebler has the fewest Turnovers/game of all the starters.
Diebler has the best 3-point % on the team.
Diebler has the best FT% on the team.
Diebler, a guard, averages 3 rebounds/game. Lauderdale the starting Center averages 5 rebounds/game!

Buford has taken 198 shots and made .399%, Diebler has taken 148 shots and made .453%. WHY NO WHINING ABOUT BUFORD????

Defenses face guard and play Diebler closer than any other Ohio State player on the perimeter. If Diebler's defender helps on Turner, Turner should get the ball to the open Diebler once in a while for a wide open 3-pointer.

The knowledgeable know that Diebler's defense has improved more than any of the other starters over the past 3 seasons. Why no WHINING about Buford's defense??? Obviously the worst defender on the team.

Diebler is a son of a coach. He has 2 older brothers who played College basketball. Diebler has been at practices and around coaching since he could walk. Matta considers Diebler his coach on the floor.

great post

wkfan wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: Let's see...

Do we believe the yahoos on this board who criticize every move Diebler makes and think he's worthless.

OR

Do we believe Coach Thad Matta, who is one of only two coaches to win at least 20 games in every year he's been a D-1 coach, and who has not hesitated to start -- and stay with -- Jon Diebler throughout his entire career at Ohio State.

Such a conundrum. :Rolleyes:

While I am a Matta fan...it's not like he has other choices. Kecman? Peters? The Club Trillion guy? The only player on the roster that could take playing time this year is Simmons...who came up with 2 big baskets in the last 3 minutes by the way....or PJ Hill running the point. At least those alternatives would add some athleticism. The biggest reason that Diebler plays is to allow Evan Turner to run the point. Matta wants his best player with the ball in his hands most of the time.

Diebler was a product of his father's system...pure and simple. He has progressed somewhat, but is still slow, weak and timid.

My prediction is that he will be buried on the depth chart next season...especially if Turner should come back (which I doubt, but who knows at this point).

Your right, there aren't other options(thus the minutes starters play). That being said, Deibler has been a starter since his frosh year. If you think he is going to sit as a senior, being a 3yr starter, no offense....but your just being ignorant.
Diebler has progressed mroe then some realize. Was he a product of the system? Yes, but even at that...he was a GREAT HS player. I don't care what level you play, when you score as he did, it means you can play.
Diebler also played PG in HS. He had to move off that position coming into college. If you have played the sport, thats not an easy thing to do. To learn to play off the ball, instead of playing with the ball all the time...is in fact, a tough transition. He did struggle, but has gotten better every year.

Big Gain wrote:
You are uninformed.

In the Purdue game Turner, Lighty and Buford had 6, 4, and 3 Turnovers respectively. DIEBLER had ONE. Lighty led the team with 3 Steals DIEBLER had TWO. Turner led the team with 3 Assists. DIEBLER had TWO. DIEBLER had SIX rebounds. Lighty had ZERO rebounds and Lauderdale had 2 Rebounds. Lighty made 22% of his shots, DIEBLER made 50% of his shots.

Why are you so defensive? Are you related to him or something?

He has less turnovers because he never puts the ball on the floor. How often do all of them penetrate compared to Diebler? I think most people would agree that one of Lighty's weakest points is his ball handling ability when driving in traffic. He gets out of control a lot.

He had 6 rebounds because Purdue jacked 27 3-pointers and there were a lot of long rebounds. He is averaging 3 on the season. For a 6-6 player averaging over 35 minutes a game that is incredibly weak.

And 2 assists? LOL. Really? You realize that just because nobody had more doesn't mean 2 is a good number. That's just as dumb as the "Diebler must be good because he starts above JuCo guys!" argument.

And to address an earlier post you made: nobody gets on Lighty for a poor offensive performance because that isn't his role. He is supposed to be the defensive stopper, and guess what? He held Hummel to 6 points (including 0-3 on 3-pt shooting) once they went man to man in the 2nd half. Diebler's ONLY role is to score.

Plus, a lot of the numbers for Diebler you pointed out are skewed. My favorite:

Diebler, a guard, averages 3 rebounds/game. Lauderdale the starting Center averages 5 rebounds/game!

Diebler plays 11 more minutes per game. In terms of rebounds per minute Lauderdale is at one every 4.8 minutes (still not good for a center, but a lot of that is because he is frequently the one contesting outside shots in the corner in the zone), and Diebler is at one every 11.67 minutes.

If you average that many more minutes than anyone else you SHOULD be able to accumulate more stats. The only legitimate stats you posted are 3 pt % and ft %. Like I said in my original post, his role is to be a shooter. When he makes shots (like I posted) he fits well with this team. When his shot isn't on (also like I said) he is incredibly frustrating to watch and pretty much worthless on the court.

So how was I uninformed?

He was waaaaay overated out of HS. I expected his performance to be about where it is. People fell in love with his stats in HS but the 1 game I saw him play he shot 32 shots and had 34 points. Not impressed.

Why no WHINING about Lighty?

Maybe, because Lighty was given the 2nd half task of slowing down Robbie Hummel. He id that. While he was pathetic on the offensive side of the court, he excelled on the defensive side.

Diebler has gotten better every year, but he has a limited ceiling because he is not an elite athlete.He can shoot when he is open, but he has trouble getting open against teams who can afford to play him straight up without helping on others.That attention opens lanes for other players,like Turner and Buford.

I would like to see more players in the rotation, because I think that would pay dividends down the line.

Prescott wrote: I would like to see more players in the rotation, because I think that would pay dividends down the line.

I am a little surprised that Simmons and Offutt didn't get to see the floor a little more. We have a lot of players playing 40 minutes a game, every game.

One of the worst defenders I have seen play.

If he doesnt have the ball he seems uninterested in doing anything.

Mulva wrote:

Big Gain wrote:
You are uninformed.

In the Purdue game Turner, Lighty and Buford had 6, 4, and 3 Turnovers respectively. DIEBLER had ONE. Lighty led the team with 3 Steals DIEBLER had TWO. Turner led the team with 3 Assists. DIEBLER had TWO. DIEBLER had SIX rebounds. Lighty had ZERO rebounds and Lauderdale had 2 Rebounds. Lighty made 22% of his shots, DIEBLER made 50% of his shots.

Why are you so defensive? Are you related to him or something?

He has less turnovers because he never puts the ball on the floor. How often do all of them penetrate compared to Diebler? I think most people would agree that one of Lighty's weakest points is his ball handling ability when driving in traffic. He gets out of control a lot.

He had 6 rebounds because Purdue jacked 27 3-pointers and there were a lot of long rebounds. He is averaging 3 on the season. For a 6-6 player averaging over 35 minutes a game that is incredibly weak.

And 2 assists? LOL. Really? You realize that just because nobody had more doesn't mean 2 is a good number. That's just as dumb as the "Diebler must be good because he starts above JuCo guys!" argument.

And to address an earlier post you made: nobody gets on Lighty for a poor offensive performance because that isn't his role. He is supposed to be the defensive stopper, and guess what? He held Hummel to 6 points (including 0-3 on 3-pt shooting) once they went man to man in the 2nd half. Diebler's ONLY role is to score.

Plus, a lot of the numbers for Diebler you pointed out are skewed. My favorite:

Diebler, a guard, averages 3 rebounds/game. Lauderdale the starting Center averages 5 rebounds/game!

Diebler plays 11 more minutes per game. In terms of rebounds per minute Lauderdale is at one every 4.8 minutes (still not good for a center, but a lot of that is because he is frequently the one contesting outside shots in the corner in the zone), and Diebler is at one every 11.67 minutes.

If you average that many more minutes than anyone else you SHOULD be able to accumulate more stats. The only legitimate stats you posted are 3 pt % and ft %. Like I said in my original post, his role is to be a shooter. When he makes shots (like I posted) he fits well with this team. When his shot isn't on (also like I said) he is incredibly frustrating to watch and pretty much worthless on the court.

So how was I uninformed?

Actually, a bit uninformed IMO. Even IF Diebler isn't making shots, he is still VERY valuable on the floor as over the course of 3yrs, he has established himself as one of the best 3pts shooters in the Big Ten.
Whether he is ON or NOT, he must be accounted for...which again, opens up the floor for Turner and Buford. OSU strength this year, and last...is shooting the ball (50+%)...you can't cheat and help out as they have established this. So NO, he isn't worthless even if he isn't hitting.

King Curtis wrote: One of the worst defenders I have seen play.

If he doesnt have the ball he seems uninterested in doing anything.

Try watching Buford at times defensively.

centralbucksfan wrote: Your right, there aren't other options(thus the minutes starters play). That being said, Deibler has been a starter since his frosh year. If you think he is going to sit as a senior, being a 3yr starter, no offense....but your just being ignorant.

I guess we shall just have to see what happens next year. The guys coming in are far more athletic and talented than Diebler is....do you really think that Matta will play Diebler over someone who gives the team a better chance to win the game?? I don't.

centralbucksfan wrote: Diebler has progressed mroe then some realize. Was he a product of the system? Yes, but even at that...he was a GREAT HS player. I don't care what level you play, when you score as he did, it means you can play.

Yes, Diebler has progressed from his freshman year...but not to be the point that I think he is a good Big Ten basketball player. He is still one of the physically weakest players on the court (as evidenced by the number of times he is stripped of the ball when trying to move with it...especially last night) and misses far too many wideopen, feet firmly set shots. When he is on, he is good...but that happens far to infrequently.

We agree that he was a product of the system in high school...we disagree that he was a great high school PLAYER....he was a great high school SCORER due to the system that he played in.

centralbucksfan wrote: Diebler also played PG in HS. He had to move off that position coming into college. If you have played the sport, thats not an easy thing to do. To learn to play off the ball, instead of playing with the ball all the time...is in fact, a tough transition. He did struggle, but has gotten better every year.

Diebler played 'point guard' in name only....he just had the ball in his hands more than anyone so that he could take the majority of the shots. I do not doubt that the transition from a division 4 (or whatever) high school point guard to division 1 college off-guard is hard....my point is that he has not succeeded at that transition. Has he gotten better each year....yes. My opinion is that he is a pretty good MAC caliber player now....

FatHobbit wrote: I am a little surprised that Simmons and Offutt didn't get to see the floor a little more. We have a lot of players playing 40 minutes a game, every game.

Offutt quit the team several weeks ago. He is now at Wright State.

The basketball ignorance on here is almost frightening.

You guys do realize it's a TEAM game, right?

Not every player has to be a great athlete who can make individual moves to create his own shot, or is perfect at every aspect of the game.

As already noted on here, Diebler does very well in MANY areas of the game and the one area in which he is excellent (three point shooting) is something that this team needs, and helps open up things inside for Turner and others.

I will wager RIGHT NOW that Diebler will be a starter next year, even with all the talent that is coming into Ohio State. He's been starting since he was a freshman (and struggled) and Matta stuck with him when other options were available.

Things are not going to change next year, because Diebler brings experience that Matta wants on the floor, along with being very good in lots of other areas.

wkfan wrote:

FatHobbit wrote: I am a little surprised that Simmons and Offutt didn't get to see the floor a little more. We have a lot of players playing 40 minutes a game, every game.

Offutt quit the team several weeks ago. He is now at Wright State.

I know. But if he would have played more, I think he would still be here.

Diebler is the worst defender on the team. That's a fact. As bad as Buford might be at times, he's still better than Diebler.

Someone previously had a great post explaining his other stats. The guy plays 40 minutes a game, he's bound to get a couple assists when giving the ball to Turner and getting a couple rebounds. He doesn't turn the ball over because he doesn't do anything with the ball.

It will be interesting to see where Diebler fits in next year. You have some MEN coming in in Weatherspoon, Sullinger and Thomas. And I say MEN, because they play like it.

Here are the sure things next year:

Sullinger and Thomas play as many minutes as they can.
Lighty plays a majority of the minutes.

So you have two spots remaining, one of which is a PG and the other position goes to the best player. You will have PJ Hill and Craft at the PG position.

Then you have Diebler, Lauderdale, Weatherspoon, Sibert, Smith and Buford fighting for the remaining minutes.

That's going to be quite the daily battle in practice!

Diebler came as advertised. A shooter that can hit some open shots. Doesnt creat shots or shoot off the dribble. He doesnt rebound often and plays a bit of defense. 0% chance of playing at the next level!!

I'll be surprised if Buford is around.

If he projects at all as an NBA pick (likely) he'll probably bolt.

[/quote]Diebler played 'point guard' in name only....he just had the ball in his hands more than anyone so that he could take the majority of the shots. I do not doubt that the transition from a division 4 (or whatever) high school point guard to division 1 college off-guard is hard....my point is that he has not succeeded at that transition. Has he gotten better each year....yes. My opinion is that he is a pretty good MAC caliber player now....
[/quote]

Diebler played at a D2 school were he won a state title.

Writerbuckeye wrote: I'll be surprised if Buford is around.

If he projects at all as an NBA pick (likely) he'll probably bolt.

He won't project well, that I know. He hasn't improved all that much IMO. He can certainly shoot it. But he is average at going to the basket, avg. ball handler, below avg defender and is still physically not near ready for the NBA.

lol Bruce Hooley taking shots at Dieber on the radio. He said that the D should be remove from his name, because he has none LMAO!!!

thedynasty1998 wrote:
Here are the sure things next year:

Sullinger and Thomas play as many minutes as they can.
Lighty plays a majority of the minutes.

So you have two spots remaining, one of which is a PG and the other position goes to the best player. You will have PJ Hill and Craft at the PG position.

Then you have Diebler, Lauderdale, Weatherspoon, Sibert, Smith and Buford fighting for the remaining minutes.

That's going to be quite the daily battle in practice!

And we heard Mullens was going to play major minutes as well?
Two things you can count on with Matta...frosh have to EARN minutes(see D. Cook), and two, seniors with major experience, will get and should get the benefit of the doubt.
And that competition...is what makes great teams. See the great programs like UNC, UConn, Duke, Texas....they have guys up and down the roster who could play anywhere. Texas this year, goes 12 deep.
Its a good problem to have.

And lets not lose sight, that currently, Deibler is the SECOND leading scorer on this OSU team. He doesn't play 40 min, he avg. 35 min. per game. And he is shooting 45% from the floor, 3pt shooting. Anything above 40% from 3, is VERY GOOD no matter how you want to spin it. Dieblier is 3rd in the COUNTRY in 3pt made.

BTW, Buford is in fact as bad if not worse on defense. And, I actually don't believe either one is "that" bad. They both have their lapses. Turner as well.

No doubt that's what the great teams have, depth and battles in practice daily.

You are smart enough to realize the difference between most of these freshman and Mullens. Mullins never played with other good players or had to work for things. Plus, he didn't win AAU national championships. These freshmen are going to come in and compete and expect greatness.

thedynasty1998 wrote: You are smart enough to realize the difference between most of these freshman and Mullens. Mullins never played with other good players or had to work for things. Plus, he didn't win AAU national championships. These freshmen are going to come in and compete and expect greatness.

I hope they do all of that and more, but I don't expect any class ever to be what Oden, Conley etc were to OSU as freshman.

Every year new players come in with a bunch of hype. Some of them live up to it and some don't. I'll believe it when I see it at this level.

Nashley25 wrote: Diebler played at a D2 school were he won a state title.

Ok....D2. The point is the same.

BTW....how his TEAM did is irrelevant to this discussion. All that means is that he played as a part of the best 5 players.

Besides.....his team finished as runner up for the state title.

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1293038

FatHobbit wrote:

thedynasty1998 wrote: You are smart enough to realize the difference between most of these freshman and Mullens. Mullins never played with other good players or had to work for things. Plus, he didn't win AAU national championships. These freshmen are going to come in and compete and expect greatness.

I hope they do all of that and more, but I don't expect any class ever to be what Oden, Conley etc were to OSU as freshman.

Every year new players come in with a bunch of hype. Some of them live up to it and some don't. I'll believe it when I see it at this level.

Exactly. And IMO, the most talented all around player is Thomas who at 6'7", and strong, can go inside and play on the perimeter.
I think Sullinger will be fine....but he isn't going to get 20/10 as many think he will as one of the top players in the country.
The other recruits, depending on who stays and goes...will be hard pressed to get as many minutes as some think with all that OSU could return next year.

I've only heard about Thomas, haven't seen him play. But from what I hear, just based on his physical abilities alone, he'll play. The guy is built like a man already. He's going to play.

I don't have too high of expectations for Sullinger, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's OSU's best front court player right now, and one of the top in the Big 10. If he has a bad year, he'll average 13 ppg and 8 rebounds. The guy has "IT" and is a fierce competitor, not to mention his physical abilities.

Craft will get some time, although it's by default. If Turner leaves, OSU doesn't have a true PG on the roster (I don't consider PJ Hill a true point), so I think he has to get minutes.

I think Weatherspoon is another that is just so physically gifted and has played against the best talent around to not be shocked by the college game, that he has to play at least 10 minutes a game.

One thing is certain, Matta will face a problem that he hasn't had before, too much depth. Will he play like Carolina and sub at nearly every dead ball? Or does he get his best 5 and let them play until they need a breather?