like_that;1873228 wrote: - I have seen the "the flag is disrespected based on flag code" argument brought up as a spin zone. This argument is a reach. Nobody is arguing the codes of the flag. 99% of the people don't even know what they are. They are arguing the intent and context. Wrapping a flag around you at a sporting event might be against code, but the intent and context is to show patriotism. Apples/oranges, and bringing up flag code is not a legitimate argument.

The flag code argument cracks me up. I'll believe they are upset because of flag code violations the next time someone throws a fit at a 4th of July party because of my flag napkin/plate/t-shirt.

I don't care. My voice will make no difference in the grand scheme of things. I worry about myself, my family and my friends. I try to ignore all of the hate going on in this country right now. Speaking on either side of it only fuels it. I won't state an opinion for or against. We are lucky to have the freedom of speech - I choose to remain silent.

NFL football players who took a knee or sat on your ass during the National Anthem let me remind you of the men and women of all race, political party and nationality who invested their time, effort and money into your development, who honors the Flag and National Anthem. Those people provided you an opportunity so you could choose your destine, that of wealth, prosperity and fame vs what could have been crime, poverty and struggle. The thanks you have given in return is that self-centered knee of look at me, unity for injustice on a small scale that is agreed and viewed by all as a problem. What investment have you taken in your community, where was that sitting on an African/American flag for those killed in Chicago, Detroit and Phil by gangs, drugs, armed robbery and domestic violent, wait that exactly what you’ve done sat on your ass and did nothing. Where is that protest of your political side leadership that sent thousands of Black and White American to welfare and poverty, plus the highest number of Black youth unemployment in history you should be on your knee being thankful that your kids will not suffer that life of strife. Where was that protest of Black leadership past and present that sold out your communities for personal gains “You Chump” no where. Why because that would be difficult, real, expose the Black political corruption and self-incriminating, destruction of the family unit, welfare entrapment, high unemployment, where was your commitment to the hood educational development, much easier to grand stand and do nothing. The men and women in Blue serve our communities in a field more dangerous, violent and brutal than any football field you could ever encounter. The percentage of mistakes, poor judgement and improper personal happens, that does not justify wrong but it a lower percentage than NFL player crime rate “check yourself “. Those men and women serving in our military who fought and will continue to fight as proud patriots of America, the Flag and National Anthem. The hundreds of men and women disabled, disfigured and will suffer a life time of medical condition that are emotionally connected to our country symbols of freedom. To those men and women who have given it all for American and those families who love ones are honored, remembered and bring comfort know they will not be forgotten each and every time the Flag displayed and National Anthem is played, you have disrespected.
Back in the 60’s lesson should have been learned, dishonoring to Flag, National Anthem does not promote your cause, it diminishes your credibility, distracts from your efforts and quick dismissed as cowardly behavior.

The main thing I've gained from this is a new appreciation for just how insufferable social media can get under the proper conditions.

You have people praising, people bitching; armed forces vets praising, armed forces vets bitching, political personalities praising, political personalities bitching and so on. Because in our world today, we ALWAYS need a frivolous distraction from anything serious going on in the world and, now, THIS! IS! IT! You can come here and watch Belly do his above wall of text bitching, you can go to Yahoo's home page and see a story about a 90-some year old vet taking a knee in support of the players, you can see Trump praising Nascar for not protesting, you can see Trump start the whole thing by yelling about how his NFL owner friends should fire those sons of bitches (the precise moment when the kneelers went from a really tiny number to a really large number) while pandering to his base campaigning for an Alabama ally (never mind that a governmental official saying someone should be fired for peacefully protesting is kinda against the whole First Amendment), you can see those NFL owner friends come out in force against his comments.

It's both bizarre and comical.

I think the players who 'protest' during the National Anthem, and the owners who allow it, are in for a very rude awakening. It is beyond belief that players would effectively protest the country and its constitution which PROVIDES THEM with the rights, redress and recourse they seem to feel estranged from. For God's sake they should be standing and cheering for a system such as we have which allows them to seek redress from that which they deem unfair, and which provides them the freedom they enjoy. They are simply protesting the wrong thing - period.

As for the owners, they make the work rules. And rule # 1 should be that we will all stand together as a team in a respectful manner during the National Anthem. And if anyone does not follow rule # 1; they will not be suiting up on game day - period.


They should take a primer from the VA Tech bball coach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWRJvl2TkNk

DGAF

It's kinda entertaining to guess what stance each OC poster will take before reading them.

I think we all know each other pretty well.

Belly35;1873246 wrote:NFL football players who took a knee or sat on your ass during the National Anthem let me remind you of the men and women of all race, political party and nationality who invested their time, effort and money into your development, who honors the Flag and National Anthem. Those people provided you an opportunity so you could choose your destine, that of wealth, prosperity and fame vs what could have been crime, poverty and struggle. The thanks you have given in return is that self-centered knee of look at me, unity for injustice on a small scale that is agreed and viewed by all as a problem. What investment have you taken in your community, where was that sitting on an African/American flag for those killed in Chicago, Detroit and Phil by gangs, drugs, armed robbery and domestic violent, wait that exactly what you’ve done sat on your ass and did nothing. Where is that protest of your political side leadership that sent thousands of Black and White American to welfare and poverty, plus the highest number of Black youth unemployment in history you should be on your knee being thankful that your kids will not suffer that life of strife. Where was that protest of Black leadership past and present that sold out your communities for personal gains “You Chump” no where. Why because that would be difficult, real, expose the Black political corruption and self-incriminating, destruction of the family unit, welfare entrapment, high unemployment, where was your commitment to the hood educational development, much easier to grand stand and do nothing. The men and women in Blue serve our communities in a field more dangerous, violent and brutal than any football field you could ever encounter. The percentage of mistakes, poor judgement and improper personal happens, that does not justify wrong but it a lower percentage than NFL player crime rate “check yourself “. Those men and women serving in our military who fought and will continue to fight as proud patriots of America, the Flag and National Anthem. The hundreds of men and women disabled, disfigured and will suffer a life time of medical condition that are emotionally connected to our country symbols of freedom. To those men and women who have given it all for American and those families who love ones are honored, remembered and bring comfort know they will not be forgotten each and every time the Flag displayed and National Anthem is played, you have disrespected.
Back in the 60’s lesson should have been learned, dishonoring to Flag, National Anthem does not promote your cause, it diminishes your credibility, distracts from your efforts and quick dismissed as cowardly behavior.

Tl;dr

BRF;1873251 wrote:It's kinda entertaining to guess what stance each OC poster will take before reading them.

I think we all know each other pretty well.

what do you believe my stance would be?

Ultimately, it's up to the league owners how much of a political stance they want to let their employees take. If most of us caused this much of a distraction at work over a political issue, I think our bosses would take some action.

thavoice;1873253 wrote:what do you believe my stance would be?

I think you would be in the dgaf group.

WNBA stayed in locker room during anthem, not sure if it affected the ratings or not.

Ironman92;1873265 wrote:WNBA stayed in locker room during anthem, not sure if it affected the ratings or not.

Lol’d

Ironman92;1873265 wrote:WNBA stayed in locker room during anthem, not sure if it affected the ratings or not.

not even trying to be a dick.. but I'm not sure I knew the WNBA still existed.

In my opinion, kneeling during the anthem is a right of free expression. I don't personally think it is an effective action. I would much rather live in a country that allows kneeling during the anthem than not though.

In Nazi Germany there were many monuments, memorials or similar sites where it was mandatory to give the arm salute when walking by - men, women, old, young. We aren't Nazi Germany by any means. But why in the world would anyone want to live somewhere where such "patriotic" expressions are not optional. Our country is better than that.

People who don't like the kneeling should quit watching the NFL, playing fantasy, etc. The league is as boring as watching paint dry anyway. Fall's the best time of year, so go out and get some dub.

SnotBubbles;1873245 wrote:I don't care. My voice will make no difference in the grand scheme of things. I worry about myself, my family and my friends. I try to ignore all of the hate going on in this country right now. Speaking on either side of it only fuels it. I won't state an opinion for or against. We are lucky to have the freedom of speech - I choose to remain silent.

My exact feelings!!! 100%%%%%%%

One thing I read elsewhere (maybe in this thread, too, but I have skimmed thus far)... Just have all the players remain in the locker room during the anthem. Problem solved.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1873271 wrote:In my opinion, kneeling during the anthem is a right of free expression. I don't personally think it is an effective action. I would much rather live in a country that allows kneeling during the anthem than not though.

In Nazi Germany there were many monuments, memorials or similar sites where it was mandatory to give the arm salute when walking by - men, women, old, young. We aren't Nazi Germany by any means. But why in the world would anyone want to live somewhere where such "patriotic" expressions are not optional. Our country is better than that.

People who don't like the kneeling should quit watching the NFL, playing fantasy, etc. The league is as boring as watching paint dry anyway. Fall's the best time of year, so go out and get some dub.

Lol. Wtf post right here.

ernest_t_bass;1873277 wrote:One thing I read elsewhere (maybe in this thread, too, but I have skimmed thus far)... Just have all the players remain in the locker room during the anthem. Problem solved.

This will more than likely be an end result. Owners aren't going fine or cut players because they kneeled for the anthem.

The League requires teams to be on the field for it, yesterday was sort of an exception. They won't be fining the 3 teams that stayed in, but they CAN. I would imagine, if this continues(which it will), the result will be a rule change.

What is "dub"?

Pretty obvious what the fans think:



Pittsburgh Steelers offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva became the best-selling player in the NFL by midday Monday.

Alejandro Villanueva's appearance on the field, as the only Steelers player to leave the tunnel for Sunday's national anthem, led to "confusion" for some teammates, a source said.

A spokesman for Fanatics, which runs the NFL's online store, confirmed to ESPN that, over the past 24 hours, more Villanueva gear, including jerseys and name and number T-shirts, has been ordered than that of any other NFL player.

Villanueva beat out New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for the top spot. Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz, Dallas Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott and Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers rounded out the top five over the past day.

Both the NFL Shop and Fanatics websites had Villanueva jerseys and T-shirts in men's and women's sizes.

A former Army Ranger who earned a Bronze Star and served three tours in Afghanistan, Villanueva was the only Steelers player who came outside the tunnel during Sunday's national anthem, after the team collectively decided not to be on the sideline during the song. Pictures and video of Villanueva standing, with his hand on his heart, filled social media networks.

QuakerOats;1873286 wrote:Pretty obvious what the fans think:



Pittsburgh Steelers offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva became the best-selling player in the NFL by midday Monday.

Alejandro Villanueva's appearance on the field, as the only Steelers player to leave the tunnel for Sunday's national anthem, led to "confusion" for some teammates, a source said.

A spokesman for Fanatics, which runs the NFL's online store, confirmed to ESPN that, over the past 24 hours, more Villanueva gear, including jerseys and name and number T-shirts, has been ordered than that of any other NFL player.

Villanueva beat out New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for the top spot. Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz, Dallas Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott and Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers rounded out the top five over the past day.

Both the NFL Shop and Fanatics websites had Villanueva jerseys and T-shirts in men's and women's sizes.

A former Army Ranger who earned a Bronze Star and served three tours in Afghanistan, Villanueva was the only Steelers player who came outside the tunnel during Sunday's national anthem, after the team collectively decided not to be on the sideline during the song. Pictures and video of Villanueva standing, with his hand on his heart, filled social media networks.

boycotts the NFL; buys NFL merchandise in the same day. That'll show um.

QuakerOats;1873286 wrote:Pretty obvious what the fans think:



Pittsburgh Steelers offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva became the best-selling player in the NFL by midday Monday.

Alejandro Villanueva's appearance on the field, as the only Steelers player to leave the tunnel for Sunday's national anthem, led to "confusion" for some teammates, a source said.

A spokesman for Fanatics, which runs the NFL's online store, confirmed to ESPN that, over the past 24 hours, more Villanueva gear, including jerseys and name and number T-shirts, has been ordered than that of any other NFL player.

Villanueva beat out New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for the top spot. Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz, Dallas Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott and Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers rounded out the top five over the past day.

Both the NFL Shop and Fanatics websites had Villanueva jerseys and T-shirts in men's and women's sizes.

A former Army Ranger who earned a Bronze Star and served three tours in Afghanistan, Villanueva was the only Steelers player who came outside the tunnel during Sunday's national anthem, after the team collectively decided not to be on the sideline during the song. Pictures and video of Villanueva standing, with his hand on his heart, filled social media networks.

Interesting. I ordered his Salute to service jersey last night as well. I had wanted to in the off-season but Was going to wait until he was resigned and his actions prompted me to pull the trigger

From the NFL League Operations Manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

Goodell is just turrible. My god. :laugh:

Ironman92;1873265 wrote:WNBA stayed in locker room during anthem, not sure if it affected the ratings or not.

And I heard all 12 fans were split in their opinion of said actions