Laley23;1873191 wrote:The NFL is not being negatively effected. Stop with that narrative.

https://www.si.com/nfl/photo/2016/10/20/nfl-television-ratings-decline-causes

#4

friendfromlowry;1873192 wrote:I'm aware it's been going on for a year. Check the NFL threads - I've posted about it plenty. But up until yesterday it was a very small percentage doing it that you probably couldn't even name off the top of your head outside of Kaepernick and Lynch. Now you have entire teams sitting it out.

Trump....,,,,My point is that it should never have been allowed to get that far.

HitsRus;1873193 wrote:https://www.si.com/nfl/photo/2016/10/20/nfl-television-ratings-decline-causes

#4

Revenue stream and ratings. Don't care about stupid articles that people keep posting. The TNF games this year are up...guess people only care about protests during the Sunday games (and I'd guess today's ratings will be up Y/Y).

And maybe if these owners don't want politics on their team, they shouldnt openly support and donate millions to candidates.

SportsAndLady;1873185 wrote: Who cares that they are silently protesting? I mean honestly, why the fuck does anyone actually care?

Celebs push their politics on us all the time, nearly every opportunity they get personally, and often even professionally in tv shows and movies.

Why should NFL players be any different? They have a platform and some feel an obligation to use it. Kneeling for the national anthem is about the least obnoxious thing they could do.

Naturally, players are going to have their own political viewpoints and I don't really care all that much what they are. I suppose I could care if I put enough effort into thinking about it. But this is an interesting topic to me. If the NFL is going to give them a political platform during "showtime", then I suppose they could just as easily let them pick their own sock length and other incidentals while dressed for a game. It's just another way to express yourself, after all.

Laley23;1873195 wrote:Revenue stream and ratings. Don't care about stupid articles that people keep posting. The TNF games this year are up...guess people only care about protests during the Sunday games (and I'd guess today's ratings will be up Y/Y).

And maybe if these owners don't want politics on their team, they shouldnt openly support and donate millions to candidates.

So, are you saying that ratings aren't down?

SportsAndLady;1873185 wrote:Yea, I don't get it.

Who cares that they are silently protesting? I mean honestly, why the fuck does anyone actually care?

Pretty much my opinion. I am baffled by how some people seem to care SOOOO much. Saw numerous comments throughout the internet about how people loved football their whole lives but THIS will make them give up that love forever and refuse to watch. Really?

HitsRus;1873182 wrote:Then suck it up as a condition of employment. There are plenty of venues in which to apply your political activism. If it's bad for the business which pays your bills and feeds your family, STFU.

A couple things.

1. Most of the owners obviously don't have a problem with it or think it is bad for business - just look at the statements. Also, non-football fans are talking about the game.

2. Stop acting like professional athletes are the are the same as run of the mill working stiffs

3. While it is a relatively weak union, the NFL players have a union which would give them much more power to resist the sort of stance you suggest the owners should take.

The anthem and the flag are symbols of freedom and liberty, so STFU and do exactly the same thing everyone else does. Yeah. makes perfect sense.

Laley23;1873191 wrote:The NFL is not being negatively effected. Stop with that narrative.

That remains to be seen. If the current ratings trend continues through the season, it’ll most certainly be an issue.

queencitybuckeye;1873205 wrote:The anthem and the flag are symbols of freedom and liberty, so STFU and do exactly the same thing everyone else does. Yeah. makes perfect sense.

The point is...

Politics and political action in the workplace should not be tolerated by employers, especially controversial political action, and using the flag/anthem for such is highly controversial by any standards.

The owners and the commissioner are idiots for having allowed it to come this far, where it has at least the potential of negatively affecting their business interests. They have allowed their business to be used as forum and abused by political interests and parties that are not necessarily acting in the best interest of professional football.

First amendment rights apply to government restriction and prosecution, and do not give you immunity from the consequences of your actions. Your employer has the absolute right to write a code of conduct that employees must follow as a condition of employment.

HitsRus;1873215 wrote:The point is...

Politics and political action in the workplace should not be tolerated by employers, especially controversial political action, and using the flag/anthem for such is highly controversial by any standards.

The owners and the commissioner are idiots for having allowed it to come this far, where it has at least the potential of negatively affecting their business interests.

First amendment rights apply to government restriction and prosecution, and do not give you immunity from the consequences of your actions. Your employer has the absolute right to write a code of conduct that employees must follow as a condition of employment.

But their employers are not doing that. They overwhelmingly support their players. If they do not have a problem with it, why do you?

Fab4Runner;1873216 wrote:But their employers are not doing that. They overwhelmingly support their players. If they do not have a problem with it, why do you?

This.

Why does Hits keep bringing up the employee/employer shit? The employers support what their employees are doing.

fish82;1873207 wrote:That remains to be seen. If the current ratings trend continues through the season, it’ll most certainly be an issue.

This protest is not causing a ratings decline. That's a lazy take.

Does Nascar have protesters? MLB? Golf? ANY OTHER SPORT? Cause those ratings are also down significantly, much more than the NFL. The NFL ratings aren't even down across the board. The primetime ratings last year were the only ones (CNS AND fox Sunday games were basically the same as 2015). This year? Back to normal. People bitch...then still watch. People booed at stadiums...then stayed and watched.

Hell, TNF week 2 was up 18% from last year. Did people think Houston and Cincinnati didn't have protesters, so it's ok to watch this game?

Why does the national anthem have to be played at every sporting event? Nothing says it has to be done this way. No one plays the national anthem like the US does.

If playing the national anthem at sporting events, why not just reserve it for international competitions (or big events -- championships, holiday, etc.)?

Soccer's governing body (FIFA) rarely gets things right as it's so dirty, but when it comes to politics, it gets it 100% correct. No political motives can be made during international soccer competitions. USSF, the governing body for soccer in the US, aligned with FIFA in this and has required players playing for the national teams to stand for the national anthem during the international competitions. There is no requirement/rule for club competitions in regards to political statements.

HitsRus;1873215 wrote:The point is...

Politics and political action in the workplace should not be tolerated by employers, especially controversial political action, and using the flag/anthem for such is highly controversial by any standards.

Good of you to speak for all employers, but if you don't mind, I'll continue to make the decisions for my business.

The owners and the commissioner are idiots for having allowed it to come this far, where it has at least the potential of negatively affecting their business interests. They have allowed their business to be used as forum and abused by political interests and parties that are not necessarily acting in the best interest of professional football.

Surveys say a small number of people have strong, vociferous on both sides, but far more DGAF. I side with the latter here.

Laley23;1873218 wrote:This protest is not causing a ratings decline. That's a lazy take.

Which is kinda why I clearly said "if the trend continues."

OSH;1873219 wrote:Why does the national anthem have to be played at every sporting event?

I'm pretty sure the DOD spends a lot of money making sure the pageantry continues.

fish82;1873222 wrote:Which is kinda why I clearly said "if the trend continues."

Right, but there is no trend to continue. Ratings were not really down last year, despite everyone freaking out. Down significantly on debate days and big rally days for each candidate. But overall, it was pretty negligible. This year is up from last, but with way more protesting.

Laley23;1873218 wrote:This protest is not causing a ratings decline. That's a lazy take.

Declines are mostly in direct proportion to the average age of the fan. Sports where young people aren't embracing the game to replace my generation are taking the biggest hits (MLB, NASCAR, etc.). Arguments over skycloth and loyalty hymns will be forgotten in a matter of weeks.

My unorganized thoughts:

-I'm a believer in free speech for all. I support your right to do whatever the fuck you want during the anthem, just as much as I support your right to be a racist piece of shit by marching as a hillbilly Nazi. This same argument applies to the people who think it should be illegal to burn a flag. The constitution protects the right for people to do that, but it doesn't mean I don't think those people are pieces of shit. That's the beauty of this country, you can do these type of things and you can't go to jail or get killed for doing them. I feel as if a lot of people on both sides of the fence fail to see the irony of their own logic. One side doesn't understand our freedom allows people to do this type of shit and the other side doesn't see the irony that they live in a country where they can actual do something this controversial. I..e they talk about oppression, meanwhile they are freely burning a flag and not being jailed/killed by our Government.

-Personally I find what the NFL players are doing as very disrespectful. I grew up in a military family, and work with the military. I was raised to show respect during the anthem. My dad and coaches would have kicked my ass if I pulled this stunt at sporting events. I get very annoyed when people are talking or doing anything else during the anthem. To me our country is so divided, it is the one time everyone puts everything aside and remembers we are all on the same team. Now, does it piss me off to the point where I won't watch the NFL? No. That would make me a hypocrite considering I still watch the NFL when they have murderers, rapists, women beaters, etc. in the league. I understand why some people wouldn't watch though, especially those who served or had family who served. Think of somebody who has had to go to a military funeral for one of their family members. They are handed that flag during the ceremony. That flag means something much more than most people can comprehend.

-Whoever said the players are barking up the wrong tree I agree. They could have protested in any other way, however they chose to do it in a way that pisses of the majority of NFL fans. I don't have any data to back me up, but I am willing to bet the majority of NFL fans are on the side of "show respect" during the anthem. Does most people even remember wtf these players are protesting? This originally started because of a mediocre QB (brings the lulz) knelt to bring awareness and "start a discussion" for the perceived oppression of blacks. If "starting a discussion" was the goal, they have failed miserable, because the discussion isn't about the topic they were doing this for. The discussion now is about the act of disrespecting the flag and telling Trump to go fuck himself. Furthermore, nothing is actually being done to make any progress to the social issues they are fighting for. Sounds like par for the course for most social protests. I would have to say overall the purpose of these protests have failed miserably.

- I have seen the "the flag is disrespected based on flag code" argument brought up as a spin zone. This argument is a reach. Nobody is arguing the codes of the flag. 99% of the people don't even know what they are. They are arguing the intent and context. Wrapping a flag around you at a sporting event might be against code, but the intent and context is to show patriotism. Apples/oranges, and bringing up flag code is not a legitimate argument.

-The under the radar story in all of this is Roger Goodell continues to be a hypocritical piece of shit. Gotta love Goodell trying to get brownie points with the owners and players. This is the same guy who wont allow the cowboys to wear black decals for the deceased Dallas police, fine players for wearing 9/11 cleats, and fine players for celebrating in the end zone. Yet, he is 100% on board with these protests that actually piss off fans. Goodell continues to apply arbitrary logic to everything he does. This ALSO pisses fans off.


Overall everyone loses. Everything MUST be politicized now. First our movies, and now sports. Living in DC, it would be nice to escape all of this shit for at least a couple hours in my life. I turn on the NFL pregame shows, and I almost mistaken them for political shows. Every well known/rich person now thinks it is necessary to provide their commentary when the majority of this country does not give a fuck what you think.

I'll straight up ask all of you, knowing full well we won't ever have an answer or probably agree...


...what else could they have done in a form of protest (realistically, don't give me not play) that would have garnered this much discussion and widespread attention??

Ive also found it interesting, in talking to my friends and family members (10 have responded), their thoughts:

-- 5 said they fought for the right to do this kind of thing (1 said he would kneel himself)
-- 3 feel it's disrespectful (but 1 understands the reasons)
-- 1 said he finds it disrespectful but acknowledges he fought for this right and appreciates them protesting in a silent matter
-- 1 said he couldn't care less (which, knowing him, doesn't surprise me lol)

Preliminary ratings for NFL on CBS: up 4% from week 3 in 2016. Pregame show highest viewership in 7 years.

Laley23;1873224 wrote:Right, but there is no trend to continue. Ratings were not really down last year, despite everyone freaking out. Down significantly on debate days and big rally days for each candidate. But overall, it was pretty negligible. This year is up from last, but with way more protesting.

I'm not sure how any reasonable person would try and spin this into "this year is up from last" through Week 3.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nfl-tv-ratings-viewership-nbc-cbs-fox-espn-nfln-regular-season-playoffs/