Bud Selig to pardon Pete Rose?

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J

jmog

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6,567 posts
Jun 26, 2014 10:39 AM
Laley23;1630256 wrote:lol, thanks. I was way to lazy.

So, 697 more hits and .010 more points on BA then what is a gold standard for automatic inclusion...and this is before he started declining when the numbers started to slip/"get inflated to due playing so long" in his later years. So....explain to me how anyone makes the argument that isnt a 1st ballot HoFer???
I do not think ANYONE (other than someone trolling) is saying that Pete the player was not a 1st ballot HoFer. The only 2 "knocks" on Pete (other than trolling) have been responses to him being the "best hitter of all time" which is extremely false, and whether he should be allowed in due to the gambling.

And to DA's response to separating Pete the player from Pete the manager. You can't do that, they are the same exact person.
Jun 26, 2014 10:39am
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Ironman92

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Jun 26, 2014 10:44 AM
Pete also played several years with the higher mounds and crazy low ERA's....never played in a real offensive era. Gwynn played in a much friendlier offensive era. Gwynn is the better hitter for sure but just plain comparison of batting average isn't completely fair.
Jun 26, 2014 10:44am
B

BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Jun 26, 2014 10:44 AM
It may have been mentioned but this thread belongs in the OC Hall of Fame just due to the stupidity of the Rose/Ward comparison......
Jun 26, 2014 10:44am
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jun 26, 2014 11:01 AM
BR1986FB;1630300 wrote:It may have been mentioned but this thread belongs in the OC Hall of Fame just due to the stupidity of the Rose/Ward comparison......
It has been mentioned, and it definitely belongs there.
Jun 26, 2014 11:01am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Jun 26, 2014 12:01 PM
Terry_Tate;1630280 wrote:Because he hit mostly singles!!!
Known as the first $100,000 per year singles hitter.

I'm sure that to "some" (read: one idiot), his being 2nd all-time in doubles doesn't count because many of them weren't drilled off the wall.
Jun 26, 2014 12:01pm
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Heretic

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Jun 26, 2014 12:05 PM
queencitybuckeye;1630334 wrote:Known as the first $100,000 per year singles hitter.

I'm sure that to "some" (read: one idiot), his being 2nd all-time in doubles doesn't count because many of them weren't drilled off the wall.
He only hit a lot of doubles because he played for a really long time! Any guy off the street could be second all-time in any stat if they had eleventy billion at bats!!!!!
Jun 26, 2014 12:05pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Jun 26, 2014 12:11 PM
Ironman92;1630299 wrote:Pete also played several years with the higher mounds and crazy low ERA's....never played in a real offensive era. Gwynn played in a much friendlier offensive era. Gwynn is the better hitter for sure but just plain comparison of batting average isn't completely fair.
The league wide BA over the whole career of Rose was .254 (I just calculated it from his rookie year to his retirement). The league wide BA for all of Gwynn's career was .262, all of 8 points higher. So if they played at the same time Rose's career BA would be around .311 instead of .303, still FAR below where Gwynn was at.
Jun 26, 2014 12:11pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

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7,117 posts
Jun 26, 2014 12:16 PM
Heretic;1630335 wrote:He only hit a lot of doubles because he played for a really long time! Any guy off the street could be second all-time in any stat if they had eleventy billion at bats!!!!!
Absolutely. Had he retired after his last really good year (1981), he would have only been 4th.

What a bum.
Jun 26, 2014 12:16pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Jun 26, 2014 12:18 PM
The Pete Rose only having the numbers he did because he played so long, well.....check out Cy Young.

22 seasons.
most losses in MLB history.
"only" led the league in wins 5 times.
"only" led the league in ERA, innings pitched and K's twice.




By the numbers Pete put up, he deserves to be in. For betting on the game, even though he was a manager, is why he doesnt deserve it.

I think he served his time. Now, if it was proven he bet while playing..then no way I would think he should be in.
Jun 26, 2014 12:18pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 26, 2014 1:07 PM
queencitybuckeye;1630334 wrote:Known as the first $100,000 per year singles hitter.

I'm sure that to "some" (read: one idiot), his being 2nd all-time in doubles doesn't count because many of them weren't drilled off the wall.
More career XBH than Andre Dawson, Mike Schmidt and Sammy Sosa
Jun 26, 2014 1:07pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 26, 2014 1:08 PM
jmog;1630338 wrote:The league wide BA over the whole career of Rose was .254 (I just calculated it from his rookie year to his retirement). The league wide BA for all of Gwynn's career was .262, all of 8 points higher. So if they played at the same time Rose's career BA would be around .311 instead of .303, still FAR below where Gwynn was at.
8 points higher for the average player...
Jun 26, 2014 1:08pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 26, 2014 1:34 PM
The 10th place hitter in MLB over their careers

During Rose's career the highest 10th place average in MLB was .320 in 1977

Here are some 10th place averages over Gwynn's career

.355
.339
.332
.331
.330
.327
.325
.324
.322
.321

Again, Gwynn is the better hitter of the two.... Just no argument but I'm just saying Rose must be given some leeway for the era being tougher on hitters than Gwynn's.
Jun 26, 2014 1:34pm
G

gut

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15,058 posts
Jun 28, 2014 4:32 AM
BR1986FB;1630300 wrote:It may have been mentioned but this thread belongs in the OC Hall of Fame just due to the stupidity of the Rose/Ward comparison......
Indeed it was an insult to Hines Ward....If Ward had 20% more games than anyone else what do his career numbers look like? What a hack.
Rose was a good hitter who piled up stats because he got to the plate A LOT. End of story.
Rank Player (yrs, age) Plate Appearances Bats
1. Pete Rose (24) 15890 B
2. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 13992 L
3. Hank Aaron+ (23) 13941 R
4. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 13346 R
5. Ty Cobb+ (24) 13084 L
6. Cal Ripken+ (21) 12883 R
7. Eddie Murray+ (21) 12817 B
8. Stan Musial+ (22) 12717 L
9. Barry Bonds (22) 12606 L
10. Craig Biggio (20) 12504 R
11. Willie Mays+ (22) 12496 R
12. Dave Winfield+ (22) 12358 R
13. Derek Jeter (20, 40) 12265 R
Rank Player (yrs, age) Games Played Bats
1. Pete Rose (24) 3562 B
2. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 3308 L
3. Hank Aaron+ (23) 3298 R
4. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 3081 R
5. Ty Cobb+ (24) 3034 L
6. Eddie Murray+ (21) 3026 B
Stan Musial+ (22) 3026 L
8. Cal Ripken+ (21) 3001 R
9. Willie Mays+ (22) 2992 R
10. Barry Bonds (22) 2986 L
Jun 28, 2014 4:32am
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HitsRus

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Jun 28, 2014 9:50 AM
Rose was a good hitter who piled up stats because he got to the plate A LOT. End of story.
...and so how does that disqualify him from being a Hall of Fame player? That's some top shelf company that is listed there.
Jun 28, 2014 9:50am
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Terry_Tate

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7,606 posts
Jun 28, 2014 11:09 AM
Lol. You are missing the whole damn point and it's laughable you keep coming back to the hits record. Pete Rose was no doubt hall of famer even if he quit at 40 and never had the hits record. He would have been a career .310 hitter with 3,697 hits, 15 all star games, MVP, World Series MVP, 3 time NL batting champion, and led the NL in hits 7 times, with 2 gold gloves. Hall of Famer.
Jun 28, 2014 11:09am
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Laley23

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29,506 posts
Jun 28, 2014 11:39 AM
Terry_Tate;1631165 wrote:Lol. You are missing the whole damn point and it's laughable you keep coming back to the hits record. Pete Rose was no doubt hall of famer even if he quit at 40 and never had the hits record. He would have been a career .310 hitter with 3,697 hits, 15 all star games, MVP, World Series MVP, 3 time NL batting champion, and led the NL in hits 7 times, with 2 gold gloves. Hall of Famer.
1st Ballot, which is what is so funny. To act like he was borderline is asinine.
Jun 28, 2014 11:39am
H

HelloAgain

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537 posts
Jun 28, 2014 7:02 PM
Glad to see gut is still an idiot
Jun 28, 2014 7:02pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 28, 2014 11:34 PM
gut;1631136 wrote:Indeed it was an insult to Hines Ward....If Ward had 20% more games than anyone else what do his career numbers look like? What a hack.
Rose was a good hitter who piled up stats because he got to the plate A LOT. End of story.
Rank Player (yrs, age) Plate Appearances Bats
1. Pete Rose (24) 15890 B
2. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 13992 L
3. Hank Aaron+ (23) 13941 R
4. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 13346 R
5. Ty Cobb+ (24) 13084 L
6. Cal Ripken+ (21) 12883 R
7. Eddie Murray+ (21) 12817 B
8. Stan Musial+ (22) 12717 L
9. Barry Bonds (22) 12606 L
10. Craig Biggio (20) 12504 R
11. Willie Mays+ (22) 12496 R
12. Dave Winfield+ (22) 12358 R
13. Derek Jeter (20, 40) 12265 R
Rank Player (yrs, age) Games Played Bats
1. Pete Rose (24) 3562 B
2. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 3308 L
3. Hank Aaron+ (23) 3298 R
4. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 3081 R
5. Ty Cobb+ (24) 3034 L
6. Eddie Murray+ (21) 3026 B
Stan Musial+ (22) 3026 L
8. Cal Ripken+ (21) 3001 R
9. Willie Mays+ (22) 2992 R
10. Barry Bonds (22) 2986 L
I was unaware Pete played in 3970 games.

No clue where you got that he played 20% more games than everyone else.
Jun 28, 2014 11:34pm
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like_that

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Jun 29, 2014 8:39 PM
Wait, gut is still trying to argue Rose is a borderline HOFer? Excuse me while I LMAO.
Jun 29, 2014 8:39pm
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Ironman92

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Jun 30, 2014 7:08 AM
like_that;1631432 wrote:Wait, gut is still trying to argue Rose is a borderline HOFer? Excuse me while I LMAO.
And incorporating poor math skills
Jun 30, 2014 7:08am
O

ou1980

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877 posts
Jul 15, 2014 7:25 PM
Selig is allowing Rose to participate in the festivities next year at the All Star game in cincinnati...
Jul 15, 2014 7:25pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 15, 2014 8:57 PM
ou1980;1636426 wrote:Selig is allowing Rose to participate in the festivities next year at the All Star game in cincinnati...
Yeah....that was a no doubter....it'll be special and I'll be there
Jul 15, 2014 8:57pm
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wildcats20

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Jul 15, 2014 9:11 PM
I think pardoning him will be his last move as commish.
Jul 15, 2014 9:11pm
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like_that

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26,625 posts
Jul 15, 2014 9:20 PM
wildcats20;1636457 wrote:I think pardoning him will be his last move as commish.
He still will have a hard time getting into the HOF with his stats.

/gut
Jul 15, 2014 9:20pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Jul 16, 2014 10:26 AM
like_that;1636465 wrote:He still will have a hard time getting into the HOF with his stats.

/gut
Many players could have gotten that many hits with all of those AB's and games played!

If he doesnt pardon him, I think the first act of the new commish would be it.
Jul 16, 2014 10:26am