BR1986FB;1628199 wrote:What I find funny is, besides the fact of what you said, he's throwing out the "homer" card when probably a third of the posters on this thread defending Rose are Tribe fans with no dog in this fight. You also notice that the known Steeler fans on this site are pretty much distancing themselves from his argument?

I'm one of the few known Steelers fans on here and probably like Ward as much as anyone. As a Steelers fan I'm probably too biased to give a fair thought on Ward. Across the sports I've always given more credit than others for longevity type stuff. To get longevity stats worthy of HOF consideration you have to play everyday thru injury and be very good for a long long time. Someone who is an integral part of a successful team for a very long time doesn't ever hurt.

I believe Ward is worthy of being a HOF finalist and as a fan hope he does make it. I see him myself as just missing but am guessing at some point he just makes it due to being a SB MVP and playing for the Steelers....fair or not.

Ironman92;1628309 wrote:I'm one of the few known Steelers fans on here and probably like Ward as much as anyone. As a Steelers fan I'm probably too biased to give a fair thought on Ward. Across the sports I've always given more credit than others for longevity type stuff. To get longevity stats worthy of HOF consideration you have to play everyday thru injury and be very good for a long long time. Someone who is an integral part of a successful team for a very long time doesn't ever hurt.

I believe Ward is worthy of being a HOF finalist and as a fan hope he does make it. I see him myself as just missing but am guessing at some point he just makes it due to being a SB MVP and playing for the Steelers....fair or not.

It wouldn't be the first time the HOF inducted a highly overrated player.

jmog;1628304 wrote:Considering the HoF is part of baseball, one can not be simultaneously banned from baseball and in the HoF. See Shoeless Joe Jackson as a reference, and for the same infraction.

It is not a part of baseball, It is a MUSEUM honoring the best that have played professional baseball.

And they changed the rules AFTER Pete was suspended. Making it impossible for him to even come up for a vote.On February 4, 1991, the Hall of Fame voted formally to exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted into the Hall of Fame. Pete is the only surviving member on the ineligible list.

I say once again that Pete the manager, and Pete the player should be 2 separate entities of consideration for the HOF. Hell, they let Team owners and baseball announcers in Both of which most never played the game.

This is why I say he should be in the HOF, But banned from participating as a player, owner or coach.

like_that;1628327 wrote:It wouldn't be the first time the HOF inducted a highly overrated player.

Yeah I know. Many of us have differing opinions on who is or isn't worthy.....I can respect everybody's outside of gut's.

The people who vote seem to be just like normal fans making reasons for those they want or reasons against those they don't....too much bias IMO. Also, can't everyone vote for Greg Maddux because no one is allowed 100% approval.

like_that;1628327 wrote:It wouldn't be the first time the HOF inducted a highly overrated player.

Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, etc.

Ward being HOF "worthy" is mostly Steeler homers thinking this. It's like dumbass Browns fans with their Orange & Brown goggles on who think Bernie Kosar was this "superstar" QB and belongs in the HOF.

BR1986FB;1628333 wrote:Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, etc.

Ward being HOF "worthy" is mostly Steeler homers thinking this. It's like dumbass Browns fans with their Orange & Brown goggles on who think Bernie Kosar was this "superstar" QB and belongs in the HOF.

This is probably the best comparison on this thread.

BR1986FB;1628333 wrote:Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, etc.

Ward being HOF "worthy" is mostly Steeler homers thinking this. It's like dumbass Browns fans with their Orange & Brown goggles on who think Bernie Kosar was this "superstar" QB and belongs in the HOF.

Had Bernie got Cleveland a championship....it would've really picked up major steam. As a fan of an average team in the 80's....I hate playing those mid-late 80's Browns teams as Kosar could pick you a part (one of the best on a blitz I've ever seen)....good receivers, great multipurpose backs, line,defense had some serious studs and damn Dixon/Minnifield were just killer. Not sure how the fuck that team ever lost. They were seemingly very good at every position on both sides of the ball.

like_that;1628337 wrote:This is probably the best comparison on this thread.

Better than career batting average vs receptions?

Ironman92;1628338 wrote:Had Bernie got Cleveland a championship....it would've really picked up major steam. As a fan of an average team in the 80's....I hate playing those mid-late 80's Browns teams as Kosar could pick you a part (one of the best on a blitz I've ever seen)....good receivers, great multipurpose backs, line,defense had some serious studs and damn Dixon/Minnifield were just killer. Not sure how the fuck that team ever lost. They were seemingly very good at every position on both sides of the ball.

Kosar was VERY overrated by Browns fans. Very "good" QB but he wasn't great. I thought Brian Sipe was a much better QB.

BR1986FB;1628341 wrote:Kosar was VERY overrated by Browns fans. Very "good" QB but he wasn't great. I thought Brian Sipe was a much better QB.

As an opposing fan and the Browns being the team I wanted to lose the most.....Bernie Kosar was damn good. Sipe was the very end of his career when I first started watching......wasn't he an MVP?

Ironman92;1628340 wrote:Better than career batting average vs receptions?

I don't even want to acknowledge gut's idiotic argument against rose. I never thought I would see the day where somebody would argue that rose as a player is a borderline HOFer. LOL.

Ironman92;1628343 wrote:As an opposing fan and the Browns being the team I wanted to lose the most.....Bernie Kosar was damn good. Sipe was the very end of his career when I first started watching......wasn't he an MVP?

Yeah. He still holds the Browns passing mark for most yards in a season (4132, I think). He was a much more prolific passer than Kosar. Bernie benefitted from a very good running game (Mack & Byner). Sipe was a gunslinger long before the term was tagged to Brett Favre.

Enough about old Browns shit though. This is about Pete Rose.

BR1986FB;1628350 wrote:Yeah. He still holds the Browns passing mark for most yards in a season (4132, I think). He was a much more prolific passer than Kosar. Bernie benefitted from a very good running game (Mack & Byner). Sipe was a gunslinger long before the term was tagged to Brett Favre.

Enough about old Browns shit though. This is about Pete Rose.

Yeah but these posts make a little sense.

Ironman92;1628352 wrote:Yeah but these posts make a little sense.

Understood but I don't want to derail the thread with stupid shit (like Rose/Ward.....I'm still LMAO on this one).

Devils Advocate;1628332 wrote:It is not a part of baseball, It is a MUSEUM honoring the best that have played professional baseball.

And they changed the rules AFTER Pete was suspended. Making it impossible for him to even come up for a vote.On February 4, 1991, the Hall of Fame voted formally to exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted into the Hall of Fame. Pete is the only surviving member on the ineligible list.

I say once again that Pete the manager, and Pete the player should be 2 separate entities of consideration for the HOF. Hell, they let Team owners and baseball announcers in Both of which most never played the game.

This is why I say he should be in the HOF, But banned from participating as a player, owner or coach.

it had a longstanding unwritten rule about not inducting banned MLB players, or Joe Jackson would have been inducted decades before Rose ever played. The fact that they formalized this unwritten rule after Rose was the 2nd HoF worthy player to get a lifetime ban (along with Jackson) doesn't change the fact that they have long withheld MLB's rulings with regards to banned players.

Pete also once drove 56 in a 55 mph....can't let him in. It's posted everywhere.

Terry_Tate;1628128 wrote:17 time all star vs a 4 time pro bowler. That right there should fucking end this discussion.

No, just popularity contests. Very similar players with similar accomplishments.

Devils Advocate;1628135 wrote: Why doesn't he just admit that he hates Rose because he is/was a dick and that he bet on baseball?

LOL, I don't hate Pete Rose. This is only a conversation because CIN didn't give a fuck and let Pete do whatever it took to get the hits record.

sherm03;1628109 wrote:Guys...Willie Mays played for 22 years and was only a .302 hitter for his career. Can you believe they let him into the Hall Of Fame?! He's like, ranked near #200 in batting average! /gut'd

Yeah, Willie Mays was even more of a slap hitter than Rose.

This thread has become laughable....we're only missing a Carson Palmer "go longer" hot dog ad.

Ironman92;1628262 wrote:Pete Rose is #1 all-time in reaching base safe at 5,929

Hines Ward is 609th in career yards per catch at 12.1

This doesn't make someone look like less of a dumbass for not understanding the difference between ranking and %

If it wasn't Gut I'd think this was a troll, but this guy actually believes he is right and everyone in the baseball world is wrong.

gut;1628536 wrote:No, just popularity contests. Very similar players with similar accomplishments.

Hines Ward had one awesome year in 2002 and even then no one would think he would be in the top 5 in wide receivers. No one is going to confuse him for Randy Moss or Terrell Owens or even Torry Holt or Marvin Harrison. He had a few decent years otherwise, but if he's a HOF'er the NFL HOF is a joke.

Pete Rose was a top 10 player overall for most of the 60's/70's and won MVP awards.

We should stop responding to the Ward comparison. When most people say something stupid, they admit it and move on. Those with fragile egos go into troll mode.

BR1986FB;1628333 wrote:Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, etc.

LOL....I think TB has a 112 QBR in the SB. He was a great QB, but his "career stats" are dragged down by a pretty horrific first 4-5 years in the league. TB maybe wasn't the best QB during the year, but he's definitely up there as a playoff QB. And my thinking is this - most SB champs could reach the playoffs with any competent QB...and then that's when you want a Terry Bradshaw.

TB is basically the anti-Peyton Manning.

Manhattan Buckeye;1628560 wrote:Hines Ward had one awesome year in 2002 and even then no one would think he would be in the top 5 in wide receivers.

Hines Ward was a machine. He was the NFL version of the great Pete Rose singles hitter. Playing in a pass-happy system like NE or IND with Peyton or Brady he would have put up absolutely sick numbers.