Good luck to the Falcons tonight, tall task at hand. Play your great defense and you never know! You should be proud of yourselves, there's a lot of teams wishing they were playing tonight so enjoy and give them your best shot.

CCRolly;1671922 wrote:My question is if Orrville were to join the WCAL, and continue to be horrid. What's their next option?

This years Orrville team would have been middle of the pack in the WCAL this season...imo. We have been bad in one sport (football) lately and thats it. The real question would be...So if Orrville joins the WCAL and wins league titles in Girls basketball, girls volleyball, track (girls/boys), boys basketball, and baseball what does the WCAL do then?

Side note...we currently have 93 kids playing football from 5th - 8th grade. Keep 3/4 of those kids and that's 70 kids playing football in high school here soon. Those are great numbers...its coming Rider fans...its coming!!!

any scores out there....

Loudonville 28 Springfield 14
Triway 42 Galion 7
Wooster 35 Hamilton Township 21
Kirtland 37 Hillsdale 7

Big win for Triway

Let's go Chipps!

anyone running the Chipp game on TV?

Chipps down 50-0 starting second half. Holy moses. So both WCAL co-champs are mercy ruled in the first round of playoffs. Does this mean what we thought was parity was actually a lot of really, really bad football this past year?

jaco;1672343 wrote:Chipps down 50-0 starting second half. Holy moses. So both WCAL co-champs are mercy ruled in the first round of playoffs. Does this mean what we thought was parity was actually a lot of really, really bad football this past year?

Yes the league was average to below. However, both teams played the best of the best in their divisions.

jaco;1672343 wrote:Chipps down 50-0 starting second half. Holy moses. So both WCAL co-champs are mercy ruled in the first round of playoffs. Does this mean what we thought was parity was actually a lot of really, really bad football this past year?

Have you ever seen what Mac schools do to teams in the state championship games?

Coldwater and Kirtland are what high school football is all about. Welcome to football WCAL!

After the three wins and one loss tonight, the MAC is 56-2 in regional quarterfinal games against non-MAC teams.

Coldwater D5...84 players out of 161 boys in the school, 5 consecutive title games, 2 titles in those years, and lost to Kirtland....Yes the WCAL was not great, but I don't think any team in Wayne, Stark, Summit, and Holmes county could beat Coldwater. That includes D1 schools.

Wcal observer;1672505 wrote:Coldwater D5...84 players out of 161 boys in the school, 5 consecutive title games, 2 titles in those years, and lost to Kirtland....Yes the WCAL was not great, but I don't think any team in Wayne, Stark, Summit, and Holmes county could beat Coldwater. That includes D1 schools.

I think you're right. When you have a successful program like that, the talent turns out to be a part of it.

I'm sure we've all heard it: Success breeds success.

For the record, Smithville is 1-0 against MAC schools in their history.

Old Rider;1672461 wrote:Coldwater and Kirtland are what high school football is all about. Welcome to football WCAL!

Seeing as how a WCAL team has won a State Championship more recently than Orrville and another one outside of that has been to a title game and multiple Final Fours I think the league knows what "real football" is all about. Also, Orrville is 0-1 against WCAL teams in the last decade as well......

Old Rider;1672461 wrote:Coldwater and Kirtland are what high school football is all about. Welcome to football WCAL!

you guys have to think about it, how many extra games is coldwater and kirkland playing every year, how many extra practices do they get every year.. all cause they make a deep run in the playoff... the experience those teams get is the difference. yes they have talent but most teams do.... if my math is right... kirkland's seniors have 15 more games played then smithville's seniors this year... add the practices to that as well.. makes a huge difference IMO.....

scotmich;1672666 wrote:you guys have to think about it, how many extra games is coldwater and kirkland playing every year, how many extra practices do they get every year.. all cause they make a deep run in the playoff... the experience those teams get is the difference. yes they have talent but most teams do.... if my math is right... kirkland's seniors have 15 more games played then smithville's seniors this year... add the practices to that as well.. makes a huge difference IMO.....

That is NOT THE ONLY REASON! Does it help? Absolutely, but there are so many other factors. First in the case of Coldwater, they are a D5 with almost 90 players. Last night Chippewa was lucky to have 40. Second, look at the coaching staff, and their credentials. Head coach with college experience, and over 30 years of experience. Two other coaches with 30 years at the school. Third, number of coaches doubled Chippewa (2 QB coaches). This allows them to practice specifics, and focus on more technique and individual preparation. They make the deep run for a reason, the practices come after that. I don't want to ruffle feathers, but this is a PROGRAM, as is Kirtland. Norwayne's title is one of those once in a generation teams, the timing is perfect, and all other factors fall into place. No WCAL school can maintain the consistency of these programs. They have don't have the resources to do so. Until you see them play, and I mean even how detailed pregame is, you can't appreciate the level of discipline and preperation. Programs like Coldwater, Stein Local, and Kirtland are on a another level. Will they lose a title game, or in the playoffs at some point? Sure, but they are built for the long haul, not on a strong class. Even a school like Mogadore who has a ton of success and tradition, is not near the class of these three. Don't believe me, go watch for yourself!

elitesmithie05;1672626 wrote:Seeing as how a WCAL team has won a State Championship more recently than Orrville and another one outside of that has been to a title game and multiple Final Fours I think the league knows what "real football" is all about. Also, Orrville is 0-1 against WCAL teams in the last decade as well......

LOL!!

Wcal observer;1672719 wrote:That is NOT THE ONLY REASON! Does it help? Absolutely, but there are so many other factors. First in the case of Coldwater, they are a D5 with almost 90 players. Last night Chippewa was lucky to have 40. Second, look at the coaching staff, and their credentials. Head coach with college experience, and over 30 years of experience. Two other coaches with 30 years at the school. Third, number of coaches doubled Chippewa (2 QB coaches). This allows them to practice specifics, and focus on more technique and individual preparation. They make the deep run for a reason, the practices come after that. I don't want to ruffle feathers, but this is a PROGRAM, as is Kirtland. Norwayne's title is one of those once in a generation teams, the timing is perfect, and all other factors fall into place. No WCAL school can maintain the consistency of these programs. They have don't have the resources to do so. Until you see them play, and I mean even how detailed pregame is, you can't appreciate the level of discipline and preperation. Programs like Coldwater, Stein Local, and Kirtland on another level. Will they lose a tile at some point? Sure, but they are built for the long haul, not on a strong class. Even a school like Mogadore who has a ton of success and tradition, is not near the class of these three. Don't believe me, go watch for yourself!

been there done that..... when smithville was making run after run deep in the playoffs. we saw team like kirkland and coldwater..... amada clear creek comes to mind,,,, were down now but in the early 2000's when we made the playoff for 7 or 8 years in a row.... we saw what it took and we got there... no not to the level of a kirkland or coldwater. but made the state final and should have won the game..... made final 4 twice if i recall.... and beat a team to make the final from a MAC..... ask your coaches about how much extra practices mean.. and extra games over the career of a high school player.... its HUGE.... sure good coaching help... numbers help..... but the biggest is talent and experience hands down........... go ask your coach up there in chipp land... he tell u..... i know you guys are hurting from getting ur butts kick.... it happens in the playoff.... smithville got drilled many times in the playoff... but then the kids see what it takes to have success in the playoffs. they work harder, longer.. plus when they make it and get that run the get EXPERIENCE.... its huge man huge!!!!!! also i never said it was the only reason i said its one of the biggest reasons

scotmich;1672735 wrote:been there done that..... when smithville was making run after run deep in the playoffs. we saw team like kirkland and coldwater..... amada clear creek comes to mind,,,, were down now but in the early 2000's when we made the playoff for 7 or 8 years in a row.... we saw what it took and we got there... no not to the level of a kirkland or coldwater. but made the state final and should have won the game..... made final 4 twice if i recall.... and beat a team to make the final from a MAC..... ask your coaches about how much extra practices mean.. and extra games over the career of a high school player.... its HUGE.... sure good coaching help... numbers help..... but the biggest is talent and experience hands down........... go ask your coach up there in chipp land... he tell u..... i know you guys are hurting from getting ur butts kick.... it happens in the playoff.... smithville got drilled many times in the playoff... but then the kids see what it takes to have success in the playoffs. they work harder, longer.. plus when they make it and get that run the get EXPERIENCE.... its huge man huge!!!!!! also i never said it was the only reason i said its one of the biggest reasons

I agree it helps. I don't think anyone is down, if you didn't see this coming, your head was in the sand. My point is a program like Mogadore, who has more tradition, and playoff experience as anyone in the WCAL doesn't sniff these programs. I'm not speaking about Coldwater this year, this has been going on now for 18 years in a row. I have watched them play well before the Homans, and their attention to detail, execution, and prep is second to none.

I've been keeping an eye on the regulars in the MAC since the late '90s as well. There have, indeed, been teams in the past in the WCAL who could have consistently done well against the MAC schools. The Waynedale stretch in the late '90s. The Smithie "decade" (1997-2006) had several teams that could have hung with a few of them in given years (and was 1-0 against them during that time). Dalton, as well, probably had a couple teams during that time that would have been able to.

Might some of that have been player talent? Sure. However, the consistency that transcended any one class's presence dictated that it was more than just that.

I will say this: The WCAL is in an odd state right now. Unless I'm mistaken, Coach Thut has the longest tenure of any head coach in the WCAL, and he's only been there, what, 14 years or so? You said it yourself. The coaches at several of the MAC schools have been coaching the same school with the same staff for a long time. That does make a HUGE difference, but it's not a difference foreign to the WCAL. Ramsey and Schrock were at their respective schools for 30+ years, weren't they? That's not the kind of thing you can replace quickly. The level of experience alone is worth a coach's weight in gold.

As for the amount of precision and discipline in pregame, I don't know how it is today, but virtually every pre-game activity between 3:00 pm and kickoff was planned out ahead of time and executed very strictly and promptly when I was in school. The pregame routine was precisely the same every game, planned out down to the minute, and done without anything unnecessary.

There's nothing preventing this to be the case with WCAL schools. It would take time for a coach to gain the fans' trust, the chemistry with the coaching staff, and the plain experience associated with coaching for a long time. The current WCAL crop doesn't have the chops that several of the MAC school teams do, but you can't evaluate the entirety of the conference's history by using a fixed period in time for comparison. Just doesn't work that way.

I do have to say that there is one thing I really do think the MAC schools do so well, and that is scheduling. These teams are usually battle tested, and it's not just from the teams within the conference. It's outside as well. They seem to do a very good job of that ... better than many of the WCAL schools do.

The MAC schools just simply gets more boys to play. The kids get excited at very young ages when they see their home team go to the playoffs every year. Though practices and game experience are a big help for the success of teams, you still need to have the talent to win big games and constantly make the playoffs. When you have a 35-50 kids on a team it's less likely to have the talent to win over a team in your same devision with 80 plus kids on it.

Buck sweep;1672780 wrote:The MAC schools just simply gets more boys to play. The kids get excited at very young ages when they see their home team go to the playoffs every year. Though practices and game experience are a big help for the success of teams, you still need to have the talent to win big games and constantly make the playoffs. When you have a 35-50 kids on a team it's less likely to have the talent to win over a team in your same devision with 80 plus kids on it.

Absolutely true. "Success breeds success."

O-Trap;1672744 wrote:I've been keeping an eye on the regulars in the MAC since the late '90s as well. There have, indeed, been teams in the past in the WCAL who could have consistently done well against the MAC schools. The Waynedale stretch in the late '90s. The Smithie "decade" (1997-2006) had several teams that could have hung with a few of them in given years (and was 1-0 against them during that time). Dalton, as well, probably had a couple teams during that time that would have been able to.

Might some of that have been player talent? Sure. However, the consistency that transcended any one class's presence dictated that it was more than just that.

I will say this: The WCAL is in an odd state right now. Unless I'm mistaken, Coach Thut has the longest tenure of any head coach in the WCAL, and he's only been there, what, 14 years or so? You said it yourself. The coaches at several of the MAC schools have been coaching the same school with the same staff for a long time. That does make a HUGE difference, but it's not a difference foreign to the WCAL. Ramsey and Schrock were at their respective schools for 30+ years, weren't they? That's not the kind of thing you can replace quickly. The level of experience alone is worth a coach's weight in gold.

As for the amount of precision and discipline in pregame, I don't know how it is today, but virtually every pre-game activity between 3:00 pm and kickoff was planned out ahead of time and executed very strictly and promptly when I was in school. The pregame routine was precisely the same every game, planned out down to the minute, and done without anything unnecessary.

There's nothing preventing this to be the case with WCAL schools. It would take time for a coach to gain the fans' trust, the chemistry with the coaching staff, and the plain experience associated with coaching for a long time. The current WCAL crop doesn't have the chops that several of the MAC school teams do, but you can't evaluate the entirety of the conference's history by using a fixed period in time for comparison. Just doesn't work that way.

I do have to say that there is one thing I really do think the MAC schools do so well, and that is scheduling. These teams are usually battle tested, and it's not just from the teams within the conference. It's outside as well. They seem to do a very good job of that ... better than many of the WCAL schools do.

I wonder how many parent problems they have??????????????

wcalfan;1672806 wrote:I wonder how many parent problems they have??????????????

To be fair, I'm sure they have problem parents like any school (after all, what parent wouldn't want their kid starting for a contender for the state championship?). However, the nice thing about established success is that it's hard for a parent like that to get any real traction. They have no leverage. The coach's method is producing results. Kids are going out for the team. The stadiums are packed, I'm sure (speaking from the Delphos St. John/Smithville game back in 2002, they brought plenty of fans). Everyone is currently winning except for the parent who would rather see their kid starting/playing than continue in a path that is currently working.

Smithville had parents wanting their kids to play more during the late '90s and early '00s. There were little "mosquito parents" constantly buzzing in the coaches' ears, just like there always will be. However, it's hard to get any support or traction if the team and school are doing well with the current system. As long as Smithville was winning, those kinds of parental complaints wouldn't have gotten a lot of fan support.