Rotinaj;1493225 wrote:This actually made me lol. Thank you sir.

I'm not sure what I said that would be amusing. I could use a laugh, please enlighten me.

I Wear Pants;1493245 wrote:And it's hard to purchase a stake when you have no money to do so because you make $7.85/hr.

Now, I'm not saying that people don't do that because you see people who have done just that over their career and end up owning a store or something. But that's over the course of many years and not 5 like queencitybuckeye makes it seem.

You might go from being an inside worker to being a team leader/shift manager to being a store manager or assistant manager in the course of five years but you're very, very unlikely to go from that inside worker to a regional manager/executive.

Also, Dunkin is pretty tasty.

Well if you are in Charlottesville, VA, please visit. It isn't just private enterprise, a lot of entry public jobs pay minimum wage, or perhaps a bit above that. Entry positions aren't meant to be a living wage. If it was there would be no room for summer jobs. I was one of those ODOT people (yeah, if anyone lived in the SE you probably saw me flagging on the highways) for less than $6.00/hour. But at least it was a job, it was something productive and was a win/win for both groups. It gave us college students work experience, and it gave the State cheap labor. We were no worse than the regulars. And it wasn't if we took a full time job away because there wasn't a budget for it.

But if we increase the minimum wage to the extent these nitwits want to do, it will destroy entry level positions. As if they need destroyed beyond the current situation. ODOT used to hire a dozen or so summer interns in my county, now it is down to a handful at most.

I Wear Pants;1493242 wrote:Bullshit. You're not going from minimum wage to what's very likely a mid six figure salary in 5 years or less.

And the bolded art I was responding to said that he would gladly work for $15 an hour. Not more than that.

While I admit that my example was extreme, but not unheard of (interesting how much more everyone seems to know about this particular corporation than I do), the point is whether it's $15/hour or $7, all kinds of opportunities exist for that to be a VERY short-term wage level, if one is on the ball. If one is not, they aren't worth any more than that.

^^^

I know about Mickey D's because we were members of the same Club with the guy that ran SE Asia out of Sing. Interesting folks. Actually knew his wife more than him since she was always at the gym and he was always traveling and barely was around. Have to hand it to an older guy (my guess he is 60+) that still has the energy to perform at a high level. I don't own any MCD stock, and probably haven't been there more than twice a year in ages, but from a corporate standpoint it seems to be pretty well run.

QuakerOats;1493203 wrote:Tens of thousands is a stretch, but no doubt that thousands of entry level McDonald's workers learned basic job skills and a work ethic that caused them to later advance up the pay scale with better opportunities ahead; many have become managers or franchise owners and are making well into 6 figures.

It's like $1M to own a McD's franchise these days...I doubt anyone flipping burgers there is saving up that kind of money.

The career trajectory we're talking about here is basically shift manager, and I imagine a shift manager might make $15/hr, possibly more....maybe even store GM. Basically the shift manager makes or breaks your franchise, unless you plan on being there running things yourself.

^^^

That sounds about right. Usually franchisors expect a $500,000-$1,500,000 buy in. Not too many individuals have that type of scratch around. That's why investment LLC's tend to hold all of these investments.

thavoice;1493016 wrote:Speaking of drive thru workers...Who was the genius on the huddle that asked a girl in the wendys drive through line out on a date, whom had just one arm, and was turned down?

I remember it was Swanton.

Just fire them all. Who cares, there will be people lining up to do their worked. I worked at Dick's Sporting Goods during college ('04/'05) and made $6.00 an hour. So quit bitching about not getting paid enough. If you want a "liveable" wage, get a "liveable" job. Not my fault McD's is your only option. And because they are morons... no one will go to McD's if a big mac extra value meal costs $10. So then you have no job. Morons.

iclfan2;1493278 wrote:... no one will go to McD's if a big mac extra value meal costs $10.

Everyone says that, but McD's isn't exactly cheap and keep going in record numbers. It's cheaper than other restaurants, but it's still more expensive than getting the raw ingredients from Whole Foods and, you know, cooking a meal for the family.

gut;1493282 wrote:Everyone says that, but McD's isn't exactly cheap and keep going in record numbers. It's cheaper than other restaurants, but it's still more expensive than getting the raw ingredients from Whole Foods and, you know, cooking a meal for the family.

When I purchase fast food my motivation is convenience and time. Its usually a last minute choice because I am in a hurry need something quick and don't want or have time to get out of my car. I would in these cases pay a little more for the Big Mac. If one is looking for a cheap lunch on the go plan ahead and brown bag it.

majorspark;1493289 wrote:When I purchase fast food my motivation is convenience and time. Its usually a last minute choice because I am in a hurry need something quick and don't want or have time to get out of my car. I would in these cases pay a little more for the Big Mac. If one is looking for a cheap lunch on the go plan ahead and brown bag it.

Precisely. We don't know just how big of a value people attach to convenience.

Obviously increasing prices is going to hurt sales and result in fewer jobs. But the economics might not be as sensitive as people think - people who eat a lot of fast food have already demonstrated poor diet and poor financial management.

Just dumb laziness and entitlement.

I paid my way through college by working 30-45 hours a week at McDonalds....so I know a little about working at McDonalds. I was a crew member, crew chief, manager and crew trainer. I made $4.25 for 2 years without any raise. Took on a 5:00-11:00 closing shift 3+ times a week at $5.75 an hour...my final year I was a crew chief with crew trainer and management duties and made $6.95 an hour. This was 1993-1997. The minimum wage the whole time was $4.25 and my $6.95 at McDonalds was more than 3 other low tiered managers at that time.

During my first two years I pretty much just worked in the grill area...at that time they usually scheduled 5 people for the grill area. The duties of these jobs could be pretty easily done by 2 functional workers, but rarely was there less than 4. From 7:00 to closing there were typically 2 managers, 2 front counter workers and 2 drive thru workers....with 4+ grill workers. Every night there were one too many managers and about 3 too many crew members. Lunch and breakfast were probably worse as far as over staffing.

Our little McDonalds had one head manager and one assistant and they were salary ($50,000 and $30,000)...one other around $9.50 an hour and SIX others at $6.25-$8.25 an hour.

The managers were mostly worthless as far as doing any crew type work and the crew members were incredibly inefficient workers (3 out of 4) and 1 of 3 was flat out counter productive and in the way.

I can haz cheezburger.

TedSheckler;1493000 wrote:There's 28 million small buisness owners in US who have risked their capital to start a buisness. Should they be guaranteed a living wage?

Close the thread, stop the discussions, this guy nailed it.

All other posts are just BS.

I think poster "Berry" may have finally showed his true identity.

Well done "Ted" aka "Berry"

The 1 armed Wendys girl was mattinctown right??

Or did he fuck the retard? Maybe both...lol

Laley23;1493391 wrote:The 1 armed Wendys girl was mattinctown right??

Or did he fuck the retard? Maybe both...lol

No 1 armed Wendys girl was back from like 2003ish

mattinctown fucked the retard who worked at Lowe's.

Manhattan Buckeye;1493252 wrote:Well if you are in Charlottesville, VA, please visit. It isn't just private enterprise, a lot of entry public jobs pay minimum wage, or perhaps a bit above that. Entry positions aren't meant to be a living wage. If it was there would be no room for summer jobs. I was one of those ODOT people (yeah, if anyone lived in the SE you probably saw me flagging on the highways) for less than $6.00/hour. But at least it was a job, it was something productive and was a win/win for both groups. It gave us college students work experience, and it gave the State cheap labor. We were no worse than the regulars. And it wasn't if we took a full time job away because there wasn't a budget for it.

But if we increase the minimum wage to the extent these nitwits want to do, it will destroy entry level positions. As if they need destroyed beyond the current situation. ODOT used to hire a dozen or so summer interns in my county, now it is down to a handful at most.

I'm not advocating an increase in a minimum wage. The legislated minimum wage or collectively bargained for minimum wage is not the real minimum wage because if you can't get a job your wage is zero.

However, will you at least agree that there are low marginal product workers who will spend their entire working lives in low wage employment...maybe even making minimum wage. Stop acting like your experience of working a lame low wage summer job while you go to an elite undergrad and an elite law school is anywhere close to universal...it is an exception and very far away from the general rule. As you readily acknowledge in other posts, diligent and educated workers with graduate degrees are working low marginal product jobs at wages that are not much higher than the legislated minimum wage.

Even if we lived in some possible United States wherein every worker was as skilled, determined and motivated as the Manhattan Buckeye's of the world...the world still needs ditch diggers and there is going to have to be people employed in these low marginal product jobs. In many cases, it will not just be entry-level workers but people who work their entire lives in low marginal product jobs, even if they are hard working and determined.

For many people, minimum wage, low marginal product jobs are work experience that is used as a catalyst to obtain higher marginal product work. For many workers, it will be the type of employment that they will be in for life.

Everyone always says "Obtain skills and get a better job", Well if you apply that maxim universally, you're still going to have a demand for workers in low wage employment and these increases in skills do not materially change their bargaining power as they're not relevant to the low marginal product work in question. Exhibit A is a person with a Lawyer working as a bartender, etc.

BoatShoes;1493450 wrote: Everyone always says "Obtain skills and get a better job", Well if you apply that maxim universally, you're still going to have a demand for workers in low wage employment and these increases in skills do not materially change their bargaining power as they're not relevant to the low marginal product work in question. Exhibit A is a person with a Lawyer working as a bartender, etc.

Of course the demand is always there. And as you gain more skills and move up in the working world, there are plenty behind you to take over those low wage jobs to continue the cycle. If you increase minimum wage to a "living wage", that cycle will be broken.

iclfan2;1493278 wrote:Just fire them all. Who cares, there will be people lining up to do their worked. I worked at Dick's Sporting Goods during college ('04/'05) and made $6.00 an hour. So quit bitching about not getting paid enough. If you want a "liveable" wage, get a "liveable" job. Not my fault McD's is your only option. And because they are morons... no one will go to McD's if a big mac extra value meal costs $10. So then you have no job. Morons.

I'm not advocating a minimum wage increase to a living wage. But the bottom line is that these types of propositions/suggestions are absurd on their face. Even if everyone were as motivated and talented as the IcLfan2's of the world, there are not enough jobs wherein the marginal product demands a wage that one can live on in our current economy. There are going to be low marginal product workers in these types of jobs who's labor is not in demand for living wage jobs.

if you have 100 dogs and you bury 95 bones in the yard and tell them to go get them....even if you train the dogs with all the bone-hunting skills in the world....some dogs are coming out of that hunt with no bones.

The more correct thing to say is "Some of you had better reduce your desired standard of living. You don't produce enough to deserve a wage that you can live on and some of you never will."

WebFire;1493455 wrote:Of course the demand is always there. And as you gain more skills and move up in the working world, there are plenty behind you to take over those low wage jobs to continue the cycle. If you increase minimum wage to a "living wage", that cycle will be broken.

I didn't say increase the minimum wage. Even if you say is true, we need to eliminate this rosy picture wherein low marginal product workers who work hard move up the corporate ladder. This is true some times, maybe even a lot of times...but a lot of times it is also not true and low marginal product workers spend their entire lives working for low wages below a so-called "living wage". Let's just accept it as reality. This is all by design any way and part of capitalism. Low marginal product workers and the unemployed knocking at the door for their jobs help keep prices stable.

The Boatshoes' of the world simply aren't as talented as the rest of you and try as the might, some of them will remain in minimum wage work forever. But that is what they deserve because business isn't in the business of charity and paying people above and beyond what they produce.

BoatShoes;1493457 wrote:I'm not advocating a minimum wage increase to a living wage. But the bottom line is that these types of propositions/suggestions are absurd on their face. Even if everyone were as motivated and talented as the IcLfan2's of the world, there are not enough jobs wherein the marginal product demands a wage that one can live on in our current economy. There are going to be low marginal product workers in these types of jobs who's labor is not in demand for living wage jobs.

if you have 100 dogs and you bury 95 bones in the yard and tell them to go get them....even if you train the dogs with all the bone-hunting skills in the world....some dogs are coming out of that hunt with no bones.

The more correct thing to say is "Some of you had better reduce your desired standard of living. You don't produce enough to deserve a wage that you can live on and some of you never will."

I understand what you are saying, and there is some merit to it. However, I look at it a lot differently. In order for the "cycle" to work, you have to go through the low ranks first. What people want is to bypass the low ranks, or make the low ranks closer the to the high ranks. This actually makes your point even worse, because you either get too many people looking for high rank jobs, or you have too many people that now stay in the low ranks, meaning others can progress through.

BoatShoes;1493462 wrote:we need to eliminate this rosy picture wherein low marginal product workers who work hard move up the corporate ladder.

OMG, hell no we DO NOT need to do this. We need to do the opposite.

"Kids, don't work hard for success. Wait for someone to give it to you."

Are you fucking serious?

WebFire;1493455 wrote:Of course the demand is always there. And as you gain more skills and move up in the working world, there are plenty behind you to take over those low wage jobs to continue the cycle. If you increase minimum wage to a "living wage", that cycle will be broken.

And, this assumption that obtaining more skills will improve your wage and employment bargaining power is just that...an assumption...and it's increasingly proving untrue in a world with global competition. Americans as a whole have probably never had more human capital generally. Even professions that are heavily protected and regulated requiring licensure and years of vocational training have seen decreases in wage bargaining power in the last decade.

"Obtain more skills and move up" is a generic answer really IMHO.

WebFire;1493467 wrote:OMG, hell no we DO NOT need to do this. We need to do the opposite.

"Kids, don't work hard for success. Wait for someone to give it to you."

Are you fucking serious?

LOL. You should have known what I meant. Of course you should encourage hard work and skill accumulation...but your generic view of the world that skill accumulation and hard work goes along this general world wherein people accumulate more bargaining power and will produce more per capita that generates higher incomes is a caricature of the real world.

Stop pretending like all these McDonald's workers just need to work hard and be good employees and that they will end up with living wage employment...many of them are going to be low marginal product workers their entire lives. It's simply a fact. Even if all of them were as talented and hard working as yourself.

Let's be realistic. They should stop striking and demanding more pay from their employer and get to work and do their best to be one of the few who moves on to higher marginal product work. If not, they should realize they're getting compensated commensurate with their ability and production and should not demand a "living wage" above and beyond their marginal product and reduce their standard of "living" down to the level their income can support.

WebFire;1493467 wrote:OMG, hell no we DO NOT need to do this. We need to do the opposite.

"Kids, don't work hard for success. Wait for someone to give it to you."

Are you fucking serious?

My point is, that of course you encourage people to win, but not everyone wins. It's just like the NFL...every team is trying to get the best players, the best talent and develop the best skills but even with that arms race for talent and skill...somebody's going to lose.

Of course you encourage people to be winners in capitalism and develop skill and talent and work hard....but we should also get people to accept that there will be losers and not pout and demand more than they deserve when they lose and are perpetual losers, right? Reduce your desired standard of living if you're one of the losers and some of us will be even if we work hard and develop lots of skills...just like the Browns.

What's a "living wage" anyway? You can stay alive on bread and tap water.