HitsRus;1241546 wrote:^^^^I did not equate the two....I said that as horrible as the Sandusky case is , it should not be an excuse to commit additional trevesty.

I am surprised that You..Mr. ultra liberal democrat, defends an institution that continues to exploit the people it is supposed to advocate for as bad as any corporation you routinely rant at over on the politics forum. This organization, unlike corporations, are not checked by laws or regulations, and it accountable only to itself.

If being exploited means a full scholarship, room and board, access to outstanding workout facilities, unlimited assistance for academic needs, and excellent medical care all for playing a game, please sign me up to be exploited.

Al Bundy;1241704 wrote:If being exploited means a full scholarship, room and board, access to outstanding workout facilities, unlimited assistance for academic needs, and excellent medical care all for playing a game, please sign me up to be exploited.

Maybe he wants the students to get more? If so, there won't enough money for other sports on campus. So basically there will only be football and some schools with men's basketball. I am sure that would go over really well.

WebFire;1241552 wrote:Would it void it? Or would it cause the person who broke the internal PSU rule to be fired? IDK, just asking. I can see it both ways.

Tough situation to be in for all involved. If it is in the bylaws or his contract that he can't make those decisions on his own, it is void and the NCAA looks like an ass because it let someone sign an agreement without first making sure they had the authority to make that decision on the schools part. I am not sticking up for Penn State, but I do find it strange that they made a decision so fast and without consulting with anyone else.

I have never ever once agreed with Hits R Us

SportsAndLady;1241757 wrote:I have never ever once agreed with Hits R Us

Maybe you haven't been 100% in agreement with him or his approach, but do you not at least agree that the NCAA is a hypocritical organization that makes shit up as it goes along and punishes innocent people for the acts of coaches and players that are long gone by the time the NCAA gets around to doing anything?

FatHobbit;1241785 wrote:Maybe you haven't been 100% in agreement with him or his approach, but do you not at least agree that the NCAA is a hypocritical organization that makes shit up as it goes along and punishes innocent people for the acts of coaches and players that are long gone by the time the NCAA gets around to doing anything?

Yes, but not in this case. A huge part of PSU's selling of their programs was that they were clean as the driven snow. That this was the worst kind of lie in and of itself demands punishment.

I can see it now.

NCAA: Fine appeal, but we will come and do a formal investigation ourselves and maybe find another minor infraction here or there (someone didn't pay full price for their cheeseburger), which we will use as grounds for a 4 year Death Penalty. Go ahead and appeal the "slap on the wrist" penalty we decided to give you.

In a year's time, Penn State football will be cancelled, and the B1G will be looking at Notre Dame to fill the void again.

HitsRus;1241525 wrote:...as opposed to the 10 year + penalty that it got? Go for it Penn State..your case has validity and your cause is just.

As for "Tarkanian" that is a seperate case, was not without significant dissent, is 20 years old, and alot has transpired since that ruling with the NCAA continuing to enhance and expand it's not so benign power. It might be time to review this...and indeed the NCAA is already being challenged on another front....and very deservedly so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/nocera-standing-up-to-the-ncaa.html


It drives me crazy to see people so outraged at Sandusky and others at PSU, that they would permit even more travesty in the name of vigilante justice.

Tarkanian's V NCAA was a president setting case. Tarkanian's law suit against the NCAA claimed the same issues against his punishment by the NCAA that the 4 board members will claim. Due process and anti-trust violations have no standings, since the NCAA is a private organization that Penn State chooses to be a member of and agrees to abide by their rules and punishments. If they have decided they no longer agree with the aforementioned they do not have to be a member of said organization.

gosh a ruddies lets make sure that no university is ever held responsible to the acts of their coaching staff. The people they hired and let loose on the world.

queencitybuckeye;1241789 wrote:Yes, but not in this case. A huge part of PSU's selling of their programs was that they were clean as the driven snow. That this was the worst kind of lie in and of itself demands punishment.

I'm not defending PSU or anything they did at all. But the NCAA sucks

bigkahuna;1241791 wrote:I can see it now.

NCAA: Fine appeal, but we will come and do a formal investigation ourselves and maybe find another minor infraction here or there (someone didn't pay full price for their cheeseburger), which we will use as grounds for a 4 year Death Penalty. Go ahead and appeal the "slap on the wrist" penalty we decided to give you.

In a year's time, Penn State football will be cancelled, and the B1G will be looking at Notre Dame to fill the void again.

The NCAA doesn't even have to further investigate Penn State to give them a 4 year Death Penalty. Before announcing the current punishment the other 119 University Presidents informed Penn State of the harsher punishment if Penn State brought suit against the NCAA. The 4 that are threatening suit know this. Those 4 Happy Vallyers think Penn State is to big of a deal to fail. Its a game of chicken between 4 of the 47 Trustees and the other 119 members of the NCAA. DUMB DUMB DUMB.

If being exploited means a full scholarship, room and board, access to outstanding workout facilities, unlimited assistance for academic needs, and excellent medical care all for playing a game, please sign me up to be exploited

No one says you have to take your head out of the sand. I will say to simply google what I'm talking about. Too many people have the attitude....March madness is great! I love the NCAA! All I'm saying is that there is another side to this....and it's about time that the investigators be investigated themselves. Too often it uses broad powers to hammer arbitrarily whoever it sees fit with no accountability. Penn State is only one in a long list of arbitrary actions....and those who it targets have no recourse except to appeal to those who decided their fate to begin with.. It runs college sports like a monopoly and holds all the purse strings.

[INDENT]I have never ever once agreed with Hits R Us [/INDENT]

Don't care...in a way that makes me happy.

HitsRus;1241804 wrote: Too often it uses broad powers to hammer arbitrarily whoever it sees fit with no accountability.

And the Supreme court says the NCAA has every right to do this. As they are a private organization that none of it's members must belong to. They choose to belong and agree to their rules and punishments when they joined. They have every right to leave the organization if they don't like something about the organization.

Tell us what private organizations can't "arbitrarily" do as they see fit regarding their members without accountability.

Big Gain;1241802 wrote:The NCAA doesn't even have to further investigate Penn State to give them a 4 year Death Penalty. Before announcing the current punishment the other 119 University Presidents informed Penn State of the harsher punishment if Penn State brought suit against the NCAA. The 4 that are threatening suit know this. Those 4 Happy Vallyers think Penn State is to big of a deal to fail. Its a game of chicken between 4 of the 47 Trustees and the other 119 members of the NCAA. DUMB DUMB DUMB.

I know; I was kidding. However, I wonder if the NCAA will come back with harsher penalties in reaction to them filing suit.

I said on the Death Penalty thread don't be surprised if PSU sues concerning the penalties leveled but was thinking that would happen if they received the DP. PSU is stupid!

And the Supreme court says the NCAA has every right to do this. As they are a private organization that none of it's members must belong to.

I think you underestimate the change in situation that has occurred since the SCOTUS issued that ruling 25 years ago. Since then, the NCAA has broadened its powers and it's restrictions and rules have exploded such that they are exploitive and burdensome. Meanwhile it channels, controls and funnels millions of dollars. Penn State no longer has options to leave, as it has no recourse if it wants to play football. It has a monopoly on big college sports in the United States.

HitsRus;1242026 wrote:I think you underestimate the change in situation that has occurred since the SCOTUS issued that ruling 25 years ago. Since then, the NCAA has broadened its powers and it's restrictions and rules have exploded such that they are exploitive and burdensome. Meanwhile it channels, controls and funnels millions of dollars. Penn State no longer has options to leave, as it has no recourse if it wants to play football. It has a monopoly on big college sports in the United States.

Penn State has the option to go NAIA if they want to play football but not under the NCAA. They have the option to try to get other schools and start some new organization. However, when they look at things, they will see the NCAA does a better job than those other options. PSU should accept their punishment and work on the healing process and the future.

FatHobbit;1241785 wrote:Maybe you haven't been 100% in agreement with him or his approach, but do you not at least agree that the NCAA is a hypocritical organization that makes shit up as it goes along and punishes innocent people for the acts of coaches and players that are long gone by the time the NCAA gets around to doing anything?

Oh fuck the hypocritical NCAA. But in this instance, they are not in the wrong.

HitsRus;1242026 wrote:I think you underestimate the change in situation that has occurred since the SCOTUS issued that ruling 25 years ago. Since then, the NCAA has broadened its powers and it's restrictions and rules have exploded such that they are exploitive and burdensome. Meanwhile it channels, controls and funnels millions of dollars. Penn State no longer has options to leave, as it has no recourse if it wants to play football. It has a monopoly on big college sports in the United States.

The NCAA is allowed to broaden their powers, and restrictions as long as they don't discriminate. THEY ARE A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION.......AND 119 of their 120 members are perfectly fine with the broadening and restrictions......as will the Supreme Court.

On the other hand, with the Big Ten cutting PSU out of their share of the league bowl revenues, might PSU leave the B10?

If the did, would another power conference take them in, or would they have to revert to independent status?

Cat Food Flambe';1242174 wrote:On the other hand, with the Big Ten cutting PSU out of their share of the league bowl revenues, might PSU leave the B10?

If the did, would another power conference take them in, or would they have to revert to independent status?

Big East would take them in a heartbeat, but I don't see PSU leaving the Big Ten.

The NCAA is allowed to broaden their powers, and restrictions as long as they don't discriminate. THEY ARE A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION.......AND 119 of their 120 members are perfectly fine with the broadening and restrictions......as will the Supreme Court.

Ah, but they do discriminate by their very arbitrary decisions...they just haven't been challenged because they hold all the financial strings. Keep in mind that the decison by the SCOTUS was 25 years ago, and was no means a slam dunk. Tarkanian had won all the lower court battles and it was by a slim 5-4 margin that the high court overturned. That was against a very different NCAA.
http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/10-things-ncaa-basketball-wont-tell-you-1300486798956/#articleTabs

The NCAA is a $billion a year BUSINESS that monopolizes all of college sports.
It is no longer a 'private organization" that advocates for student athletes.
It is no longer an organization that confines itself to ensuring fair competition on the playing field.
But it is an organization that generates a ton of money and selectively makes and enforces rules in an arbitrary manner upon members who have no recourse but to comply lest they lose their share of the pie.

The NCAA needs its wings clipped.

Maybe you haven't been 100% in agreement with him or his approach,

I am not sure why some of you make this personal.

the penn state administration and athletic department covered up scores of rapes of children over more than a decade.

PSU needed its wings clipped.
If they manage to avoid this righteous punishment, it will diminish college athletics and sustain the image of the university as a greedy, arrogant institution indifferent to the suffering its agents caused to so many young boys.

Now, a group of former players are appealing the vacated wins.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8245600/former-penn-state-nittany-lions-players-intend-appeal-ncaa-sanctions

And the plot thickens.

Why do people think they have standing to appeal an agreement between the university and the NCAA? I have as much standing as they do, which is none.