Gblock;1159496 wrote:yea lets all work for the minimum wage that they pay over seas so everyone can have a low paying job. sounds great. structuring wages to fit their needs is just another word for paying minimum wage.

Couldn't be more off if you tried.

Gblock;1159496 wrote:yea lets all work for the minimum wage that they pay over seas so everyone can have a low paying job. sounds great. structuring wages to fit their needs is just another word for paying minimum wage.

So why aren't all non-union jobs minimum wage?

WebFire;1159494 wrote:YOU aren't the reason. Not even close. Unions 50, 75, 100 years ago are the reason. Today's union does nothing but inflate wages and increase prices for everyone. Gee, I wonder why our jobs are going overseas?

them damn union, heck we used to be able to work those 72 hour weeks, with no overtime pay, no workmen's comp, no safety protection on the job, hey and i could go to the factory and work at the same job with my 10 year old son, of course he only got half pay. Aw for those good old days before them damn unions.

WebFire;1159500 wrote:So why aren't all non-union jobs minimum wage?

with Walmart and MacDonalds our leading employers we are heading that way. then you can be happy.

WebFire;1159500 wrote:So why aren't all non-union jobs minimum wage?

so how much do they pay overseas?? you say unions are driving up the wages and we cant compete...so how much would you have to pay someone to keep these "jobs" from going overseas

WebFire;1159500 wrote:So why aren't all non-union jobs minimum wage?

and most of the type of jobs that we are losing overseas are non degree jobs that arent paying much more here. i could agree with you maybe in the auto industry but oustside of that what unions are you talking about?

Gblock;1159508 wrote:and most of the type of jobs that we are losing overseas are non degree jobs that arent paying much more here. i could agree with you maybe in the auto industry but oustside of that what unions are you talking about?

Most of it is manufacturing in general.

isadore;1159502 wrote:them damn union, heck we used to be able to work those 72 hour weeks, with no overtime pay, no workmen's comp, no safety protection on the job, hey and i could go to the factory and work at the same job with my 10 year old son, of course he only got half pay. Aw for those good old days before them damn unions.

Umm, ok? That's why the unions were good then. They served their purpose. They are no longer needed. Laws protect these things from happening, thanks to the unions of course.

What is your argument here?

Gblock;1159504 wrote:so how much do they pay overseas?? you say unions are driving up the wages and we cant compete...so how much would you have to pay someone to keep these "jobs" from going overseas

I don't have that answer. But the people that matter do. The market would dictate what that wage would be. You know, just like every non-union occupation.

WebFire;1159533 wrote:I don't have that answer. But the people that matter do. The market would dictate what that wage would be. You know, just like every non-union occupation.

I didnt think you would. whatever it is i can bet it wouldnt compete with a third world country

and i can assure you that the reason our economy faultering has very little to do with unions



The current tax code rewards American corporations for investments abroad, and penalizes them for investments at home. When money is made by American corporations overseas, they are taxed on that money when it is brought back to the United States. So what happens? Overseas profits are kept overseas and reinvested there, until they are funneled to “investors abroad”.
It becomes more profitable (after taxes) for an American corporation to use its money to build factories and infrastructure in places like China and India. It becomes more profitable to manufacture goods elsewhere and ship them here, with the profits being kept overseas. Soon bundles of US capital accumulate there, and there is no place to spend it.
The incentives for US companies to invest abroad are myriad and complex. They can borrow money in the United States, and deduct the interest from their taxes. They can take that money and earn income on it abroad, and perhaps never pay taxes on that income. The expenses of foreign taxes are deductible against US taxes, so in the end, United States taxpayers pay the companies taxes in places like China. David Cay Johnston highlights these issues in

the wisdom of henry ford below

http://david-j-shestokas.suite101.com/the-wisdom-of-henry-ford-a72661

also maybe you should buy american products thus forcing companies to hire american workers instead of buying what is "Cheapest"

isadore;1159445 wrote:gosh have we had, large soulless profit driven corporations dealing with individuals. in that situation from Carnegie Steel to Walmart the worker has been used and abused when they lack united representation.

Those Walmart and Steel employees could have found another job, if they felt "used and abused" like you say.

WebFire;1159530 wrote:Umm, ok? That's why the unions were good then. They served their purpose. They are no longer needed. Laws protect these things from happening, thanks to the unions of course.

What is your argument here?

hardly, corporations continue to try to do away with safety standards, eliminate overtime and cut minimum wage with the Republican Party as their willing accomplices. And that is one the reasons why we need unions.

isadore;1159502 wrote:them damn union, heck we used to be able to work those 72 hour weeks, with no overtime pay, no workmen's comp, no safety protection on the job, hey and i could go to the factory and work at the same job with my 10 year old son, of course he only got half pay. Aw for those good old days before them damn unions.

You were not even born yet when people would work 72 hour weeks with no OT, no safety protection or workmen's comp. What factories have hired a 10 year old, in the past 100 years?

isadore;1159572 wrote:hardly, corporations continue to try to do away with safety standards, eliminate overtime and cut minimum wage with the Republican Party as their willing accomplices. And that is one the reasons why we need unions.

Link?

said_aouita;1159569 wrote:Those Walmart and Steel employees could have found another job, if they felt "used and abused" like you say.

in a market control by corporations working together to keep wages low. And with workers with no corresponding organization to give them bargaining power. Unless of course they unionize.

Gblock;1159504 wrote:so how much do they pay overseas?? you say unions are driving up the wages and we cant compete...so how much would you have to pay someone to keep these "jobs" from going overseas

Whatever the market will bear.

isadore;1159578 wrote:in a market control by corporations working together to keep wages low. And with workers with no corresponding organization to give them bargaining power. Unless of course they unionize.

You do have bargaining power, it's called another job. Most motivated and driven individuals are willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.
Nothing wrong with corporations working together to improve their profits, it's what makes America great. Unfortunately Unions are so behind the times and closed minded, they can not grasp the obvious.

Gblock;1159561 wrote:also maybe you should buy american products thus forcing companies to hire american workers instead of buying what is "Cheapest"

Do you buy American products? If not, this statement is hypocritical.

isadore;1159578 wrote:in a market control by corporations working together to keep wages low. And with workers with no corresponding organization to give them bargaining power. Unless of course they unionize.

Collusion is illegal. We have a process to punish those who work together.

Unions are absolutely worthless and a huge reason why jobs are going overseas; that and high taxes, both ideas championed by the "progressive" party.

said_aouita;1159576 wrote:Link?

here are a few of the thousands of possible examples of republican efforts and one of union attempts to protect

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/17/florida-bill-would-slash-minimum-wage-for-tipped-workers/
http://washingtonpolicywatch.org/2012/02/01/bills-to-cut-washingtons-minimum-wage-get-hearing-in-olympia/
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/02/05/1831472/bill-may-cut-ot-for-tech-workers.html
http://www.law.nyu.edu/ecm_dlv2/groups/public/@nyu_law_website__journals__journal_of_legislation_and_public_policy/documents/documents/ecm_pro_070793.pdf

sleeper;1159603 wrote:Collusion is illegal. We have a process to punish those who work together.

Unions are absolutely worthless and a huge reason why jobs are going overseas; that and high taxes, both ideas championed by the "progressive" party.

lol right as Republicans work to cut regulatory agencies. And collusion continues, to prove, its effects obvious.

isadore;1159608 wrote:lol right as Republicans work to cut regulatory agencies. And collusion continues, to prove, its effects obvious.

I don't see the effects. The regulations must be working since Apple just got called out and his facing heavy fines for colluding with retailers on e-book prices.

Free market always wins in the long run.

said_aouita;1159596 wrote:You do have bargaining power, it's called another job. Most motivated and driven individuals are willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.
Nothing wrong with corporations working together to improve their profits, it's what makes America great. Unfortunately Unions are so behind the times and closed minded, they can not grasp the obvious.

so corporations can work together to eliminate competition for greater profit, but workers can not to try to get some kind of level playing field. When they work together to try to control the product or factor market, that is violation of anti trust laws, put there to try to protect us, obviously not you, but us.

sleeper;1159610 wrote:I don't see the effects. The regulations must be working since Apple just got called out and his facing heavy fines for colluding with retailers on e-book prices.

Free market always wins in the long run.

one in a thousand and they collude to control price constantly and collude to keep wages low.