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From atheist to believer....from believer to atheist

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dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:44 PM
Cleveland Buck;1157834 wrote:What Christian text said this?
Pretty sure that according to christian doctrine, if you are not a believer, you are subject to judgement and eternal damnation.
Apr 30, 2012 3:44pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:47 PM
dwccrew;1157841 wrote:Pretty sure that according to christian doctrine, if you are not a believer, you are subject to judgement and eternal damnation.
This is needed to prey on people's ignorance. What better way to convince the masses to follow your belief system then to tell them if they don't they will suffer for eternity.
Apr 30, 2012 3:47pm
chicago510's avatar

chicago510

Original Chatterer

5,728 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:50 PM
LJ;1157829 wrote:This.

Justin is 6'6. His unborn children have already been recruited to play HS basketball at a local Catholic H.S.
His wife is like 3'6. His kid will be lucky to be 5 feet tall :laugh:
Apr 30, 2012 3:50pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:58 PM
I Wear Pants;1157832 wrote:This.

It is not weird for someone to learn about or even go to a parochial school while at the same time being a member or a different religion or being an atheist. Many times parochial schools are some of the better schools in the area.
Yeah, and when the schools in the area are Cincinnati Public Schools you send your kids to private school if you want them to get a good education. There are only a few CPS schools worth a crap. I'd rather my kids get a quality private education (at a discount) at the school right across the street from our house.
Apr 30, 2012 3:58pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:58 PM
sleeper;1157843 wrote:This is needed to prey on people's ignorance. What better way to convince the masses to follow your belief system then to tell them if they don't they will suffer for eternity.
Agreed. Which is why, although I believe in some sort of higher power, I don't believe in any of the organized religion we have in this world. With all the corruption we always hear about at different religious institutions, it is obvious some people use religion for their own benefit.
Apr 30, 2012 3:58pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:58 PM
chicago510;1157848 wrote:His wife is like 3'6. His kid will be lucky to be 5 feet tall :laugh:
My biggest fear. Short offspring. I'm only half joking.
Apr 30, 2012 3:58pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:59 PM
justincredible;1157855 wrote:Yeah, and when the schools in the area are Cincinnati Public Schools you send your kids to private school if you want them to get a good education. There are only a few CPS schools worth a crap. I'd rather my kids get a quality private education (at a discount) at the school right across the street from our house.
Snob
Apr 30, 2012 3:59pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 30, 2012 4:00 PM
dwccrew;1157841 wrote:Pretty sure that according to christian doctrine, if you are not a believer, you are subject to judgement and eternal damnation.
Everyone will be subject to Judgement.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God." Romans 14:12
Apr 30, 2012 4:00pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Apr 30, 2012 4:10 PM
I Wear Pants;1157840 wrote:Christians said this.

And if agreeing with everything in the Bible isn't important can people stop claiming it to be the literal word of god?
So random human beings said this, right? The Bible did not. Just so we're clear. The Bible only mentions one way to get to heaven, and it has nothing to do with "agreeing with everything the Bible says".

And how does one "agree with everything in the Bible"? Most of it is stories that are meant to teach history or morality. Some things are meant to be taken literally, some to be interpreted, some to be learned from. Just because imperfect people get carried away with their own interpretations doesn't mean you understand the whole message or that you should paint a whole group with the same brush.
Apr 30, 2012 4:10pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Apr 30, 2012 4:10 PM
dwccrew;1157841 wrote:Pretty sure that according to christian doctrine, if you are not a believer, you are subject to judgement and eternal damnation.
A believer in what? And is that what IWP said? Or did he say you will suffer if you don't agree with everything the Bible says?
Apr 30, 2012 4:10pm
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 30, 2012 4:13 PM
Cleveland Buck;1157871 wrote:So random human beings said this, right? The Bible did not. Just so we're clear. The Bible only mentions one way to get to heaven, and it has nothing to do with "agreeing with everything the Bible says".

And how does one "agree with everything in the Bible"? Most of it is stories that are meant to teach history or morality. Some things are meant to be taken literally, some to be interpreted, some to be learned from. Just because imperfect people get carried away with their own interpretations doesn't mean you understand the whole message or that you should paint a whole group with the same brush.
You are really highlighting the problem. You say the Bible isn't meant to be literal. Another person says you have to live "by the book". If all of these people who supposedly have God figured out claim to know exactly how to live life and what to expect in the afterlife, yet there are a million different interpretations, who is one supposed to believe? Nobody, not one single one of those people can give a definitive answer. Perhaps because all you are really interpreting is something that a few guys wrote to try and make people behave themselves?
Apr 30, 2012 4:13pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2012 4:13 PM
Cleveland Buck;1157871 wrote:So random human beings said this, right? The Bible did not. Just so we're clear. The Bible only mentions one way to get to heaven, and it has nothing to do with "agreeing with everything the Bible says".

And how does one "agree with everything in the Bible"? Most of it is stories that are meant to teach history or morality. Some things are meant to be taken literally, some to be interpreted, some to be learned from. Just because imperfect people get carried away with their own interpretations doesn't mean you understand the whole message or that you should paint a whole group with the same brush.
How do you tell the difference between something that's meant to be taken literally or not? Teach history? LOL
Apr 30, 2012 4:13pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 30, 2012 5:22 PM
sleeper;1157876 wrote:How do you tell the difference between something that's meant to be taken literally or not? Teach history? LOL
Can we take it literal until forced to do otherwise?
Apr 30, 2012 5:22pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 5:35 PM
Cleveland Buck;1157871 wrote:So random human beings said this, right? The Bible did not. Just so we're clear. The Bible only mentions one way to get to heaven, and it has nothing to do with "agreeing with everything the Bible says".

And how does one "agree with everything in the Bible"? Most of it is stories that are meant to teach history or morality. Some things are meant to be taken literally, some to be interpreted, some to be learned from. Just because imperfect people get carried away with their own interpretations doesn't mean you understand the whole message or that you should paint a whole group with the same brush.
I was being a bit dramatic yes.

But still the Bible/Christianity says that if you don't accept that a person 2000 some years ago was born to a virgin, shook up the religious/political scene, and was executed. Oh yeah, and then he came back to life and rose to heaven. This person is also the son of god while being god himself as well. All this was done to save our souls from eternal damnation and if we don't believe in this our souls will be...wait for it...eternally damned.

And this is the 100th or so time I've asked this but someone please give me a list of exactly which passages are to be taken literally, which ones are parables and such, and which ones are irrelevant.
Apr 30, 2012 5:35pm
Sykotyk's avatar

Sykotyk

Senior Member

1,155 posts
Apr 30, 2012 5:43 PM
I Wear Pants;1157281 wrote:This seems like, using today's nomenclature, a spectacularly retarded standpoint.

Why do you need an eternal afterlife or some great "point/purpose"? There being no eternal afterlife actually gives greater importance to our lives. This tiny speck of time that we share with the others who are around right now is all we get, that's it. When you take that point of view it seems absolutely silly to waste it doing anything but trying to be the best person you can and enjoying the ride which if more people took that view the world would be a better place.

The thing is though, at what point? If you do everything today just to do it today, and have no ability to remember it in the future... why do it? Enjoying the present is great,... in the present. But today meant nothing if 1,000 years from now nobody has any memory of it. Effectively, you don't exist. And if there is no master memory of what happened, you might as well not have at all.

And regardless of our future, at some point the sun will burn out into a Brown Dwarf by which time we're all screwed even if we do manage to migrate from this little blue dot.


I'm not religious, but I'm not an atheist. There's too much out there that science CAN'T explain. Science can never explain 'why', it can only explain 'how', 'what', 'where', 'when'... The problem with 'why' is that it can always be followed up with another 'why'. The other four can, but to an extent. The 'why' questions can always lead back to one question. And, unsurprisingly, that is "Why?"


Sadly, that's the question that 'religion' fills through vagaries and superstition. And many people fall for it.

I'm not saying they're wrong, per se, but just that they're taking the easy way out. That 'leap of faith' morphs into rules and protocol where the person gives up control for a little piece of mind. They don't have to think about that void in their lives left answered.

Is there something out there? The question has an answer. So, yes, there is something out there. There has to be. Do we know what it is? No. Will we? Maybe. Why? Because we don't stop looking for it.
Apr 30, 2012 5:43pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2012 6:11 PM
cruiser_96;1157898 wrote:Can we take it literal until forced to do otherwise?
That's just another way of saying not to take it literal when its convenient for whatever argument you are bringing for.

But sure, go ahead. It's all made up anyway.
Apr 30, 2012 6:11pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 6:11 PM
enigmaax;1157875 wrote:You are really highlighting the problem. You say the Bible isn't meant to be literal. Another person says you have to live "by the book". If all of these people who supposedly have God figured out claim to know exactly how to live life and what to expect in the afterlife, yet there are a million different interpretations, who is one supposed to believe? Nobody, not one single one of those people can give a definitive answer. Perhaps because all you are really interpreting is something that a few guys wrote to try and make people behave themselves?
It is not us you need or should believe. It is your own understanding you must determine based on your own efforts.
Apr 30, 2012 6:11pm
DeadliestWarrior34's avatar

DeadliestWarrior34

gooby pls

3,101 posts
Apr 30, 2012 7:24 PM
sleeper;1157591 wrote:There is nothing more mentally abusing than teaching a child that a fairy tale is real. The government doesn't care; they get another mindless drone they can sway with religious based rhetoric. One more person that doesn't have the intellectual to see through their BS. The laws will never change, at least not for generations as the logic, reason, and information start killing off the infected swine of religious belief.

All my friends that I went to private Catholic school with are now atheists(and all of them went to college). It is slowly but surely going away, and although I won't see it in my lifetime, I am happy that religious belief is on the decline.
Are you aware that there aren't enough words in the english language- hell, the entire lexicon of languages the world over- to describe how incredibly wrong this is. Not only is it wrong in that it is ignorant, but in that it is so incredibly incorrect on a factual level. Holy ****ing God, how stupid can a human being get? In my life I've encountered people who have been unintelligent, yes- I've encountered my share of people who suffered from mental disabilities. People with downs syndrome, autism, and so on. However, I have never once encounted somehow so stupid as to be capable of thinking something so unbelievably off-base. I didn't even think it possible that anyone in our plain of existence could ever even have the capacity for this level of idiocy
Apr 30, 2012 7:24pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Apr 30, 2012 7:39 PM
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying it is weird for the kid to go to a parochial school without being baptized?
No not at all...you seemed to imply that being baptized Catholic would cause a problem with the Methodist side of your family...and also the converse. Yet they would have no problem if your kids were educated( "indoctrinated") Catholic? That is what I was trying to understand.
Yeah, and when the schools in the area are Cincinnati Public Schools you send your kids to private school if you want them to get a good education. There are only a few CPS schools worth a crap. I'd rather my kids get a quality private education (at a discount) at the school right across the street from our house.
Makes sense to me....It just seemed a bit odd that one would make a big deal about baptism but not about the education.
Apr 30, 2012 7:39pm
HaikuStu's avatar

HaikuStu

Junior Member

8 posts
Apr 30, 2012 7:58 PM
sleeper;1157925 wrote:That's just another way of saying not to take it literal when its convenient for whatever argument you are bringing for.

But sure, go ahead. It's all made up anyway.
So you're saying things like Babylon, Assyria, Isreal and its people, etc. are "made up". I don't think that is being honest with yourself or history.
Apr 30, 2012 7:58pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 30, 2012 8:05 PM
sleeper;1157925 wrote:...
But sure, go ahead. It's all made up anyway.
All of it?
Apr 30, 2012 8:05pm
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Apr 30, 2012 8:15 PM
DeadliestWarrior34;1157995 wrote:Are you aware that there aren't enough words in the english language- hell, the entire lexicon of languages the world over- to describe how incredibly wrong this is. Not only is it wrong in that it is ignorant, but in that it is so incredibly incorrect on a factual level. Holy ****ing God, how stupid can a human being get? In my life I've encountered people who have been unintelligent, yes- I've encountered my share of people who suffered from mental disabilities. People with downs syndrome, autism, and so on. However, I have never once encounted somehow so stupid as to be capable of thinking something so unbelievably off-base. I didn't even think it possible that anyone in our plain of existence could ever even have the capacity for this level of idiocy
Reps!
Apr 30, 2012 8:15pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 9:15 PM
HitsRus;1158012 wrote:No not at all...you seemed to imply that being baptized Catholic would cause a problem with the Methodist side of your family...and also the converse. Yet they would have no problem if your kids were educated( "indoctrinated") Catholic? That is what I was trying to understand.


Makes sense to me....It just seemed a bit odd that one would make a big deal about baptism but not about the education.
Generally atheists or non-religious people are all about education and that includes of religions. If I know nothing about the claims of a religion how can I be sure they aren't reasonable or that they don't have evidence for them. I haven't found this to be the case of any of the religions but it would be ignorant of me to know nothing about a religion and yet proclaim it to be nonsense (to be clear, I don't mean versed in ever intricacy or anything). I mean: http://www.skepticmoney.com/do-atheists-know-more-about-religion-pew-forum-study/

What's interesting about that I think is this part:
Apr 30, 2012 9:15pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 9:18 PM
DeadliestWarrior34;1157995 wrote:Are you aware that there aren't enough words in the english language- hell, the entire lexicon of languages the world over- to describe how incredibly wrong this is. Not only is it wrong in that it is ignorant, but in that it is so incredibly incorrect on a factual level. Holy ****ing God, how stupid can a human being get? In my life I've encountered people who have been unintelligent, yes- I've encountered my share of people who suffered from mental disabilities. People with downs syndrome, autism, and so on. However, I have never once encounted somehow so stupid as to be capable of thinking something so unbelievably off-base. I didn't even think it possible that anyone in our plain of existence could ever even have the capacity for this level of idiocy
While sleeper is an asshole he's not entirely insane. I mean, you wouldn't think it to be normal or okay for me to indoctrinate my children into thinking that the views I hold on economics or politics are the only valid views and that people who disagree are evil (actually now that I think about it there's probably a lot of people who think that's acceptable).
Apr 30, 2012 9:18pm
DeadliestWarrior34's avatar

DeadliestWarrior34

gooby pls

3,101 posts
Apr 30, 2012 9:34 PM
I Wear Pants;1158128 wrote:While sleeper is an asshole he's not entirely insane. I mean, you wouldn't think it to be normal or okay for me to indoctrinate my children into thinking that the views I hold on economics or politics are the only valid views and that people who disagree are evil (actually now that I think about it there's probably a lot of people who think that's acceptable).
Did you know that what you are talking about is limited by your false sense of reality? Maybe if you studied just a little bit harder while in school you wouldnt be blinded by these fallacies that have cast a cloud over your judgment. I once knew a guy like you who had everything he could ever want but in the end it meant nothing, because he never knew his true place in the grand scheme of things. Im not trying to tell you how to live your life but, honestly buddy I think its time you stepped down off of your high horse and looked life square in the eyes.
Apr 30, 2012 9:34pm