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From atheist to believer....from believer to atheist

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ From atheist to believer....from believer to atheist
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:47 AM
enigmaax;1157558 wrote:Is that because you feel you are a better person than the people telling those stories?
Not only no, but heck no!

I'm just glad I haven't had to deal with a lot of these issues. My life having what appears to be less roadblocks or ... ... I'm not sure what word I'm looking for here, maybe drama, but I don't want to use it in a negative way. I'll say a lot of "ado". (That word is always an answer to a clue in the crossword puzzle. I'd say at least twice every seven days.)

Anywho, the feeling of being better than someone else certainly didn't cross my mind.
Apr 30, 2012 10:47am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:50 AM
sleeper;1157573 wrote:Nothing physically or spiritually, but mentally and intellectually it degrades them by starting the path towards total blind ignorance. Apparently, you like to degrade children, sickening.
There are already laws protecting children from mental abuse. Those who we have chosen to be the ultimate determinant of those laws haven't found baptizing to be degrading as of yet. I don't however doubt that there are many things I do that you would find "sickening". It isn't your evaluation of them that I rely upon when choosing to do them or not but you sharing this opinion is appreciated.
Apr 30, 2012 10:50am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:50 AM
Con_Alma;1157556 wrote:That's my question to you, what's the point of doing it or making it illegal? Are not parents legally permitted to influence the thinking of their child until such time that the child can make their own determinations?
I'm just not a huge fan of imposing that particular kind of lunacy on children.
Apr 30, 2012 10:50am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:51 AM
sleeper;1157574 wrote:As long as churches are given non-profit status, there is no separation of church and state in this country.
I agree with that.
Apr 30, 2012 10:51am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:53 AM
enigmaax;1157582 wrote:I'm just not a huge fan of imposing that particular kind of lunacy on children.
I would imagine not seeing how you don't particularly subscribe to those teachings. In a civil society we are forced to tolerate many things we are not necessary "fan"s of. I know I am.
Apr 30, 2012 10:53am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:54 AM
Con_Alma;1157580 wrote:There are already laws protecting children from mental abuse. Those who we have chosen to be the ultimate determinant of those laws haven't found baptizing to be degrading as of yet. I don't however doubt that there are many things I do that you would find "sickening". It isn't your evaluation of them that I rely upon when choosing to do them or not but you sharing this opinion is appreciated.
There is nothing more mentally abusing than teaching a child that a fairy tale is real. The government doesn't care; they get another mindless drone they can sway with religious based rhetoric. One more person that doesn't have the intellectual to see through their BS. The laws will never change, at least not for generations as the logic, reason, and information start killing off the infected swine of religious belief.

All my friends that I went to private Catholic school with are now atheists(and all of them went to college). It is slowly but surely going away, and although I won't see it in my lifetime, I am happy that religious belief is on the decline.
Apr 30, 2012 10:54am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:57 AM
sleeper;1157591 wrote:There is nothing more mentally abusing than teaching a child that a fairy tale is real. The government doesn't care; they get another mindless drone they can sway with religious based rhetoric. One more person that doesn't have the intellectual to see through their BS. The laws will never change, at least not for generations as the logic, reason, and information start killing off the infected swine of religious belief.

All my friends that I went to private Catholic school with are now atheists(and all of them went to college). It is slowly but surely going away, and although I won't see it in my lifetime, I am happy that religious belief is on the decline.
Being a lawful person I am O.K. with those scenarios you have posted even those that went to Catholic schools and then became atheist.
Apr 30, 2012 10:57am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 30, 2012 10:59 AM
Con_Alma;1157588 wrote:I would imagine not seeing how you don't particularly subscribe to those teachings. In a civil society we are forced to tolerate many things we are not necessary "fan"s of. I know I am.
Yeah, I should clarify that I don't think it should be illegal. I misunderstood your response, which was more directed at the "illegal" comment; I was still referring to the notion that whats-his-name should have his kids baptized out of respect to his mother or some nonsense.
Apr 30, 2012 10:59am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:00 AM
sleeper;1157591 wrote:There is nothing more mentally abusing than teaching a child that a fairy tale is real.
It is now illegal to tell your kids about santa claus, the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny.
Apr 30, 2012 11:00am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:03 AM
You could spin this argument any way you want. You may let your kid listen to rap music, and I think it is preposterous to subject them to "bitches and ho's," etc.

Any kid is going to do the same things their parents do, because that is called parenting. If a parent wants to go to church, they are going to take their children. Any parent worth their salt will allow their children, when they are old enough to stay home by themselves, to freely make their own decision. I can assure you that said parents won't wake up every Sunday and say, "Kids, you SURE you want to go to church today???"
Apr 30, 2012 11:03am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:05 AM
ernest_t_bass;1157603 wrote:It is now illegal to tell your kids about santa claus, the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny.
These are eventually told by said parents that this is a fairy tale. This does not happen with religious belief.
Apr 30, 2012 11:05am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:06 AM
enigmaax;1157602 wrote:Yeah, I should clarify that I don't think it should be illegal. I misunderstood your response, which was more directed at the "illegal" comment; I was still referring to the notion that whats-his-name should have his kids baptized out of respect to his mother or some nonsense.
I probably agree with you on this issue. Justincredible should be able to make the same decisions his mother was able to make with him and that is to parent his children as he and his wife see fit.
Apr 30, 2012 11:06am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:09 AM
HitsRus;1157522 wrote:Then get them baptized...what harm will it do. Do it out of love and respect for them.
Easier said than done. I grew up Methodist. She grew up Catholic. What grandparents do we show love and respect too? Someone is going to be offended one way or the other so we'll just offend them both because we love and respect them equally.
OSH;1157537 wrote:Or just tell them that you will let them (your children) make that decision when they (your children) are old enough. I don't like infant/child baptism anyway. It is just a "dedication" truly. The person making the decision is so much more important. When a person goes through the process of choosing God and then being baptized, the individual is accountable and truly understands what it's all about.
This. Our child will attend a Catholic school (assuming my wife is still working there) even though both parents are non-religious. They will be able to come to their own conclusions on religion and if they want to get baptized when they can make their own conscious decision to do so then that is great. I think going to a religious school while coming from a non-religious household is probably the best situation for a child to be able to truly make their own choices regarding religion. The kid won't be "forced" to believe because they want to follow their parents yet they will still be exposed to religion in their schooling. An obviously we wouldn't be upset if they did decide religion was for them or else we wouldn't send them to a Catholic school.
Apr 30, 2012 11:09am
fish82's avatar

fish82

Senior Member

4,111 posts
Apr 30, 2012 11:38 AM
sleeper;1157608 wrote:These are eventually told by said parents that this is a fairy tale. This does not happen with religious belief.
Most if not all figure it out on their own...not unlike religious belief or lack thereof.
Apr 30, 2012 11:38am
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Apr 30, 2012 2:57 PM
No person was ever brainwashed by getting a little water and oil put on their heads. Nobody said you have to continue to "indoctrinate" as you put it.

I made the statement in regards to justin risking a major confrontation with his mother and in laws during which should be a happy time.(the birth of a child and union of two families). Going forward from there they will come to understand gradually that you and your wife are not religious. This has nothing to do with being hypocritical, because you have no beliefs anyway. It has everything to do with family... and respect for them and their wishes and beliefs. Why choose to harm a relationship when it is unnecessary?


sorry justin...didn't see your post above this. Seems unusual...you are choosing to educate(or as sleeper would put it..'indoctrinate')...without a baptism? Good luck buddy....you are on your own:cry:
Apr 30, 2012 2:57pm
hasbeen's avatar

hasbeen

Excuse me, Flo?

6,504 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:00 PM
HitsRus;1157792 wrote:No person was ever brainwashed by getting a little water and oil put on their heads. Nobody said you have to continue to "indoctrinate" as you put it.

I made the statement in regards to justin risking a major confrontation with his mother and in laws during which should be a happy time.(the birth of a child and union of two families). Going forward from there they will come to understand gradually that you and your wife are not religious. This has nothing to do with being hypocritical, because you have no beliefs anyway. It has everything to do with family... and respect for them and their wishes and beliefs. Why choose to harm a relationship when it is unnecessary?

The kid is the union. Not the oil and water. If the mom and in law want to focus on something else, that is their issue.
Apr 30, 2012 3:00pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:04 PM
HitsRus;1157792 wrote:No person was ever brainwashed by getting a little water and oil put on their heads. Nobody said you have to continue to "indoctrinate" as you put it.

I made the statement in regards to justin risking a major confrontation with his mother and in laws during which should be a happy time.(the birth of a child and union of two families). Going forward from there they will come to understand gradually that you and your wife are not religious. This has nothing to do with being hypocritical, because you have no beliefs anyway. It has everything to do with family... and respect for them and their wishes and beliefs. Why choose to harm a relationship when it is unnecessary?
The harm in the relationship would only stem from an unwillingness of the mothers to accept his and his wife's decisions. If they choose to ruin the "happy time", that is their issue, not his. Whatever you want to call it, hypocritical or fake, the point is that going through a ceremony that is specific to a certain belief system when you don't practice that belief system is silly. And after that, then what? Pretend to go to church? Why not just be up front from the beginning? They are all adults.
Apr 30, 2012 3:04pm
Raw Dawgin' it's avatar

Raw Dawgin' it

Just Ain't Care

11,466 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:04 PM
HitsRus;1157792 wrote:No person was ever brainwashed by getting a little water and oil put on their heads. Nobody said you have to continue to "indoctrinate" as you put it.

I made the statement in regards to justin risking a major confrontation with his mother and in laws during which should be a happy time.(the birth of a child and union of two families). Going forward from there they will come to understand gradually that you and your wife are not religious. This has nothing to do with being hypocritical, because you have no beliefs anyway. It has everything to do with family... and respect for them and their wishes and beliefs. Why choose to harm a relationship when it is unnecessary?
lets pay respect to them by doing something we don't believe in to make them happy - that's not respect, that's being passive aggressive while disrespecting them.
Apr 30, 2012 3:04pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:05 PM
The kid is the union. Not the oil and water
That is it exactly....concentrate on keeping the union strong.
Apr 30, 2012 3:05pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:18 PM
HitsRus;1157792 wrote:No person was ever brainwashed by getting a little water and oil put on their heads. Nobody said you have to continue to "indoctrinate" as you put it.

I made the statement in regards to justin risking a major confrontation with his mother and in laws during which should be a happy time.(the birth of a child and union of two families). Going forward from there they will come to understand gradually that you and your wife are not religious. This has nothing to do with being hypocritical, because you have no beliefs anyway. It has everything to do with family... and respect for them and their wishes and beliefs. Why choose to harm a relationship when it is unnecessary?


sorry justin...didn't see your post above this. Seems unusual...you are choosing to educate(or as sleeper would put it..'indoctrinate')...without a baptism? Good luck buddy....you are on your own:cry:
Letting someone learn about the Bible or any of the major religions without the pressure and indoctrination of telling them it's the literal word of god and they'll burn forever if they don't accept it is probably the quickest way to create an atheist.
Apr 30, 2012 3:18pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:24 PM
HitsRus;1157792 wrote: sorry justin...didn't see your post above this. Seems unusual...you are choosing to educate(or as sleeper would put it..'indoctrinate')...without a baptism? Good luck buddy....you are on your own:cry:
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying it is weird for the kid to go to a parochial school without being baptized?
Apr 30, 2012 3:24pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:26 PM
justincredible;1157828 wrote:Not sure I understand this. Are you saying it is weird for the kid to go to a parochial school without being baptized?
This.

Justin is 6'6. His unborn children have already been recruited to play HS basketball at a local Catholic H.S.
Apr 30, 2012 3:26pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:29 PM
justincredible;1157828 wrote:Not sure I understand this. Are you saying it is weird for the kid to go to a parochial school without being baptized?
This.

It is not weird for someone to learn about or even go to a parochial school while at the same time being a member or a different religion or being an atheist. Many times parochial schools are some of the better schools in the area.
Apr 30, 2012 3:29pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:37 PM
I Wear Pants;1157332 wrote:According to Christianity you will suffer for all eternity not because you were a dick but because you don't agree with everything the Bible says.
What Christian text said this?
Apr 30, 2012 3:37pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 30, 2012 3:43 PM
Cleveland Buck;1157834 wrote:What Christian text said this?
Christians said this.

And if agreeing with everything in the Bible isn't important can people stop claiming it to be the literal word of god?
Apr 30, 2012 3:43pm