vball10set;1134712 wrote:IU #2 overall? I thought you were just talking about the B1G. No way.

It literally seems only OSU doesn't see it. They are LOADED. 10 deep of talent even without Watford.

killer_ewok;1134719 wrote:I'm a Syracuse fan and I think #8 is way too high. Dion Waiters already has decided to go pro. As it said, Jardine and Joseph graduate and Melo isn't coming back. I'd say around #20 sounds right.

Probably, but college ball has changed so much. You don't need a ton of talent like back in the day. Syracuse should still have enough to be right around top 10. From what I recall/have seen, their recruit are pretty solid.

Laley23;1134725 wrote:It literally seems only OSU doesn't see it. They are LOADED. 10 deep of talent even without Watford.



Probably, but college ball has changed so much. You don't need a ton of talent like back in the day. Syracuse should still have enough to be right around top 10. From what I recall/have seen, their recruit are pretty solid.

The recruiting has been and continues to be solid but I still see them starting the season ranked about 20th. I get what you're saying though.

Michigan at #3, They were not a legit top 20 team this season, now losing a couple guys plus adding 2 freshmen will make them a #3 in the nation team, you gotta be f---in kiddin. 5 B1G in the top 15, I doubt that also. Wisky at #6 without Taylor, this guy has to be smokin dope.

Well here you go: ESPN.com (not random college website.net) released their early Top 25: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7767401/indiana-hoosiers-continue-moving-2012-13


Indiana is ranked #1 (predicated on Zeller returning) and wouldn't you know it but Ohio State is ranked 5th.....Not 5th in the Big Ten. 5th IN THE COUNTRY. 2nd ranked team in the Big Ten. So hate to say I told you so....but I told you so.

Kinda. I did say if Thomas comes back they are #3. So Katz has them a little higher. I also can't tell, does he have Sullinger coming back? My whole point was centered around Thomas and Sullinger departing. With Thomas alone they are Jo worse than 3rd. I still like u of m though

Even if Thomas returns(assuming Sully goes), I struggle to see OSU as a top 10 preseason team. Who's gonna score other than Thomas? I know we have high hopes for Ross, but he didn't even see the court this year, so I'm a little skeptical of what he will contribute.

Laley23;1134725 wrote:It literally seems only OSU doesn't see it. They are LOADED. 10 deep of talent even without Watford.

Don't get me wrong, 'cause it'd be great for the B1G to have that many teams in the top 25, with a #1 as a bonus. I just am not sold on Tom Crean's ability to coach a team that is not the underdog, to keep a team at the top when that lofty ranking is bestowed upon them. This is jmo, and he may very well prove me wrong. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

vball10set;1135510 wrote:Don't get me wrong, 'cause it'd be great for the B1G to have that many teams in the top 25, with a #1 as a bonus. I just am not sold on Tom Crean's ability to coach a team that is not the underdog, to keep a team at the top when that lofty ranking is bestowed upon them. This is jmo, and he may very well prove me wrong. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

That's fair, but we are just talking preseason. How he coaches then is not the issue. IU will be top 3

Laley23;1135517 wrote:That's fair, but we are just talking preseason. How he coaches then is not the issue. IU will be top 3

Good point, and based on potential, they should be.

Can Ravenel and Williams combined equal Sullinger's 18 and 10?
Can Ross equal Thomas's 16/game and his tremendous offensive rebounding efforts?
Can Smith score 15/game like Bufford did?
Can Thompson make 50% of anything but dunks?
Can Craft do everything he currently does for the team AND average at least 15ppg?
Can Scott improve on being the worst shooter in Ohio State history?

All of that will have to happen for Ohio State to contend for a Big Ten Title next year.

mallymal614;1133368 wrote:Maybe I'm going through the emotions but I have defended Thad and came up with excuses over and over again. Right now, he just isn't an elite coach. Great recruiter but must improved tremendously X's and O's wise. When you think about all the 1st round draft picks he's had and going to have, McDonald's All-Americans, etc, Besides 2007 he has underachieved in my opinion. I can accept losing to Kentucky THIS YEAR but not Kansas.

Most REAL "experts" say Matta had his best coaching season ever this year. Having to deal with all of the TEAM issues he had and STILL getting them to the Final Four. Be truthful, think about it, there are zero good NBA players on this team.

One of THE best coaches in the country and his #1 seed MSU team didn't get as far as Matta's team. Matta has out coached Izzo over the past 8 years. Ohio State has won more games than any other Big Ten school since Matta arrived at Ohio State. Matta beat one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country in Mark Few, who a dozen big schools have tried to lure away from Gonzoga the last several years. Syracuse had more elite players than Ohio State, Kansas had the overall #2 best player in the country. In February how many thought Ohio State would be in the Final Four let alone win another Big Ten Title? BE HONEST. Matta COACHED this team way beyond what all but the most rabid OSU fans thought possible. Ohio State was a 2 seed, they got further than they were supposed to. There were MANY schools in the field that did not get as far as they were supposed to.

What in the hell did Sullinger and Thomas going a combined 8 of 33 have to do with X's and O's??? PLEASE explain! If they had combined to shoot a still terrible 33% from the field Ohio State wins.

Ohio State was in terrible shape when Matta was hired. Ohio State is now a perennial Top 10 Program. Who do you suggest is the coach out there that would come to Ohio State and take them to a higher level..... at a "football school"?????

se-alum;1133536 wrote:Not saying Matta is on the hot seat, but he was terribly outcoached by Self. Giving up a 13pt lead in the 2nd half of a National Semifinal is unacceptable.

AGAIN...what part of your 2 best players going 8 for 33 and only one player on your team shoots 50% and he's your fifth option makes you terribly out coached? Awaiting the revelations.

Talyor didn't shut down Craft, Craft beat him like a drum. Craft's problem was being unable to finish once past Taylor with a 7 foot volleyball player in his face.

SportsAndLady;1133798 wrote:Okay so Craft is praised because Taylor didn't have a good offensive game...but Taylor shuts down Craft, and he didn't have a good game?

How OSU fans can still overrate Craft just because he's "that white guy who plays really hard defensively" is hilarious

Taylor did not shut down Craft, Craft beat Taylor like a drum. Craft's problem came after he got past Taylor and had a 7 foot volleyball player waiting for him.

Big Gain;1135891 wrote:AGAIN...what part of your 2 best players going 8 for 33 and only one player on your team shoots 50% and he's your fifth option makes you terribly out coached? Awaiting the revelations.

Isn't it a coaches job to design a couple plays to get your struggling players an easy bucket or two? Matta was def outcoached and Self made some great adjustments...doesn't mean I don't like Matta, but it happened.

Big Gain;1135783 wrote:Most REAL "experts" say Matta had his best coaching season ever this year. Having to deal with all of the TEAM issues he had and STILL getting them to the Final Four. Be truthful, think about it, there are zero good NBA players on this team.

One of THE best coaches in the country and his #1 seed MSU team didn't get as far as Matta's team. Matta has out coached Izzo over the past 8 years. Ohio State has won more games than any other Big Ten school since Matta arrived at Ohio State. Matta beat one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country in Mark Few, who a dozen big schools have tried to lure away from Gonzoga the last several years. Syracuse had more elite players than Ohio State, Kansas had the overall #2 best player in the country. In February how many thought Ohio State would be in the Final Four let alone win another Big Ten Title? BE HONEST. Matta COACHED this team way beyond what all but the most rabid OSU fans thought possible. Ohio State was a 2 seed, they got further than they were supposed to. There were MANY schools in the field that did not get as far as they were supposed to.

What in the hell did Sullinger and Thomas going a combined 8 of 33 have to do with X's and O's??? PLEASE explain! If they had combined to shoot a still terrible 33% from the field Ohio State wins.

Ohio State was in terrible shape when Matta was hired. Ohio State is now a perennial Top 10 Program. Who do you suggest is the coach out there that would come to Ohio State and take them to a higher level..... at a "football school"?????

Big Gain;1135891 wrote:AGAIN...what part of your 2 best players going 8 for 33 and only one player on your team shoots 50% and he's your fifth option makes you terribly out coached? Awaiting the revelations.

Big Gain;1135898 wrote:Taylor did not shut down Craft, Craft beat Taylor like a drum. Craft's problem came after he got past Taylor and had a 7 foot volleyball player waiting for him.

LOL what sort of delusional world do you live in? And second question, why does it always take you like 4 days til after the conversation is over to chime in? Can you not work a computer?

wes_mantooth;1135918 wrote:Isn't it a coaches job to design a couple plays to get your struggling players an easy bucket or two? Matta was def outcoached and Self made some great adjustments...doesn't mean I don't like Matta, but it happened.

there were plenty of open looks missed between those 2

robj55;1135975 wrote:there were plenty of open looks missed between those 2

no doubt...but thomas was missing long jumpshots. I would have liked to see Sully drag the tall white kid out on the perimeter with him and let Thomas do a little work inside.

Big Gain;1135891 wrote:AGAIN...what part of your 2 best players going 8 for 33 and only one player on your team shoots 50% and he's your fifth option makes you terribly out coached? Awaiting the revelations.

The third leading scorer and the player who took the most FG's per game, was their 5th option? I think Buford at worst was their 3rd option. No matter how bad he was in prior games of the tourny.

wes_mantooth;1135918 wrote:Isn't it a coaches job to design a couple plays to get your struggling players an easy bucket or two? Matta was def outcoached and Self made some great adjustments...doesn't mean I don't like Matta, but it happened.

huh? You failed to notice "designed" plays Ohio State ran??? What a coach DOES NOT do is design a play on the run in the Final Four that has never seen in practice.

I was talking about another player than Buford, Ohio State needed ONE more player to step up. Obviously it wasn't going to be Sullinger, Thomas or Craft, the fifth option is Smith.

Big Gain;1135998 wrote:huh? You failed to notice "designed" plays Ohio State ran??? What a coach DOES NOT do is design a play on the run in the Final Four that has never seen in practice.

lol...ok. I won't argue as I just learned who you are. Your reputation precedes you.

wes_mantooth;1136007 wrote:lol...ok. I won't argue as I just learned who you are. Your reputation precedes you.

Ignoramus

sportswizuhrd;1135980 wrote:The third leading scorer and the player who took the most FG's per game, was their 5th option? I think Buford at worst was their 3rd option. No matter how bad he was in prior games of the tourny.

I was talking about a player other than Buford. Ohio State needed ONE more player to step up. Obvioudly it wasn't going to be Sullinger, Thomas or Craft. The fifth option is Smith.

Yup, coaches don't draw stuff up in timeouts in division 1 college basketball.