Notre Dame 2012

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karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 23, 2012 9:01 PM
WebFire;1180029 wrote:So it's not about money? Then you are saying they are too good for the B1G.

LOL. They want to stay independent. They aren't too good for any conference.
May 23, 2012 9:01pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

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May 23, 2012 9:42 PM
Notre Dame's situation is too good for any conference. No reason for them to join one.
May 23, 2012 9:42pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 23, 2012 9:59 PM
DeyDurkie5;1180117 wrote:Notre Dame's situation is too good for any conference. No reason for them to join one.

Well said Durkie. As long as they have a spot in whatever playoff system there is when they finally field a team capable, there is no reason to join a conference.
May 23, 2012 9:59pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

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May 23, 2012 10:03 PM
karen lotz;1180182 wrote:Well said Durkie. As long as they have a spot in whatever playoff system there is when they finally field a team capable, there is no reason to join a conference.
:thumbup:
May 23, 2012 10:03pm
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 2:19 AM
Yes, ND plays Michigan and Michigan State every year. However, they don't have to also play Nebraska, Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State every year. A very good reason not to be a member of the B1G.
May 24, 2012 2:19am
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 2:25 AM
sherm03;1179906 wrote:They play Michigan every year. As well as Michigan State.

The issue is the TV deal. Literally every game ND plays is on National TV right now. Joining a conference ruins that.
Yes, ND plays Michigan and Michigan State every year. However, they don't also have to play Nebraska, Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State. A very good reason for not wanting to be in the B1G.
May 24, 2012 2:25am
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 6:58 AM
Big Gain;1180353 wrote:Yes, ND plays Michigan and Michigan State every year. However, they don't also have to play Nebraska, Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State. A very good reason for not wanting to be in the B1G.

They just played Penn State a few years back. I mean, are you really implying that ND is afraid to join the conference because they'd have to play those teams? I think that's absurd. What is your belief based on?

It's not like they'd have to play all of those teams ever year anyways with the screwy B1G scheduling. Ohio State and Nebraska are not gonna play each other from 2013-16? You have a marquee matchup in your conference and there's a 3-year gap between meetings? WTF? But, that's another discussion altogether.
May 24, 2012 6:58am
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Con_Alma

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May 24, 2012 7:04 AM
No, I think he was trying to say playinig the B1G schedule every year is a grind and can take it's toll in any given year....I think.
May 24, 2012 7:04am
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 8:26 AM
Con_Alma;1180378 wrote:No, I think he was trying to say playinig the B1G schedule every year is a grind and can take it's toll in any given year....I think.

I've heard all of the "conference play is much more of a grind than non-conference matchups" talk since the early 2000's on JJ's. And I do see a point there in playing the same teams every year, having plenty of film on them, familiarity, rivalries, etc. I get that. However, ND plays certain teams pretty much every year (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC, Navy, Stanford, Boston College) as well. That's essentially ND's conference play from year to year as far as rivalries, familiarity, etc. Now granted, there's no conference crown up for grabs amongst ND and those teams but I just don't think there's THAT much of a difference between conference play and playing that same group of teams every year. JMO
May 24, 2012 8:26am
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Con_Alma

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May 24, 2012 9:06 AM
killer_ewok;1180400 wrote:I've heard all of the "conference play is much more of a grind than non-conference matchups" talk since the early 2000's on JJ's. And I do see a point there in playing the same teams every year, having plenty of film on them, familiarity, rivalries, etc. I get that. However, ND plays certain teams pretty much every year (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC, Navy, Stanford, Boston College) as well. That's essentially ND's conference play from year to year as far as rivalries, familiarity, etc. Now granted, there's no conference crown up for grabs amongst ND and those teams but I just don't think there's THAT much of a difference between conference play and playing that same group of teams every year. JMO
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. I was only attempting to clarify what I thought he meant.

Some will say the challenge of the quality of teams in a B1G schedule is what is the difficulty when compared to the independent schedule played by ND.
May 24, 2012 9:06am
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 9:23 AM
Con_Alma;1180426 wrote:I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. I was only attempting to clarify what I thought he meant.

Some will say the challenge of the quality of teams in a B1G schedule is what is the difficulty when compared to the independent schedule played by ND.

And my response wasn't directed at you but I can see where it appeared to be since I quoted you. I was saying that to big gain if what you said was what he meant.
May 24, 2012 9:23am
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 5:02 PM
killer_ewok;1180377 wrote:They just played Penn State a few years back. I mean, are you really implying that ND is afraid to join the conference because they'd have to play those teams? I think that's absurd. What is your belief based on?

It's not like they'd have to play all of those teams ever year anyways with the screwy B1G scheduling. Ohio State and Nebraska are not gonna play each other from 2013-16? You have a marquee matchup in your conference and there's a 3-year gap between meetings? WTF? But, that's another discussion altogether.
Where was it said ND would play all of those schools every year??
Where was it said ND is afraid???

It is a fact that if ND was in the Legends Division they would play Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin every year and most probably also play at least 2 of these schools from the Leaders Division every year: Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska and Iowa.

You must admit it must make the ND AD and football coaches feel much more comfortable knowing they have COMPLETE control over their ENTIRE schedule EVERY YEAR.

Maybe the above is why you sounded very defensive?
May 24, 2012 5:02pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 24, 2012 5:19 PM
They'd also be forced to play the likes of Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern every year. That has more to do with it than the teams you listed considering Michigan and Michigan State are played annually, Penn State and Nebraska have both been played within the last 10 or so years, and Wisconsin was discussed as a future opponent last year until scheduling conflicts stopped it.
May 24, 2012 5:19pm
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 6:12 PM
Big Gain;1181135 wrote:Where was it said ND would play all of those schools every year??
Where was it said ND is afraid???

It is a fact that if ND was in the Legends Division they would play Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin every year and most probably also play at least 2 of these schools from the Leaders Division every year: Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska and Iowa.

You must admit it must make the ND AD and football coaches feel much more comfortable knowing they have COMPLETE control over their ENTIRE schedule EVERY YEAR.

Maybe the above is why you sounded very defensive?

Okay then, if that wasn't what you meant...what were you implying when you said that?

I don't know how "comfortable" they are with having total control of their entire schedule (probably makes it a little more difficult though and adds some pressure having to schedule 12 games each year as opposed to just 4 OOC) and I won't assume I know what your point was in saying that.

And if replies on a message board can make someone sound defensive...well then...I guess we're all guilty of that. Just back-and-forth debate/discussion. Nothing more, nothing less.
May 24, 2012 6:12pm
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 6:55 PM
I meant EXACTLY what I said. I was implying nothing! You were searching for something that wasn't there to defend what is obvious. Ask any AD and or head football coach in the country if they would prefer to have complete and absolute control over their entire schedule or have absolutely zero control over 67% of it. Their answer would be immediate and decisive, the only caveat being there would be no Conference Title to compete for.
May 24, 2012 6:55pm
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 7:07 PM
Big Gain;1181228 wrote:I meant EXACTLY what I said. I was implying nothing! You were searching for something that wasn't there to defend what is obvious. Ask any AD and or head football coach in the country if they would prefer to have complete and absolute control over their entire schedule or have absolutely zero control over 67% of it. Their answer would be immediate and decisive, the only caveat being there would be no Conference Title to compete for.

And you know for a fact that any AD or HC would want that?

Link?
May 24, 2012 7:07pm
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 7:29 PM
Now your defensiveness is becoming more obvious. Having nothing further of substance to add to the "debate" that has occurred here, desperation has set in and the silly asking for proof and a "link" for the OBVIOUS is your only retort. Honestly ask yourself, if possible, being the head coach at a Div1 football program whether you would prefer very little control or absolute and complete control over your schedule. Give us the long list of reasons for chosing very little over absolute and complete.
May 24, 2012 7:29pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 24, 2012 7:38 PM
I'm not sure what your point is if you aren't saying they are afraid of a full B1G schedule? Everyone knows they are able to schedule who they want to for the most part. You just want to go on record to let us know you are aware of that?
May 24, 2012 7:38pm
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 7:43 PM
Big Gain;1181256 wrote:Now your defensiveness is becoming silly and proving you have lost any "debate" that has occurred here, when asking for proof and a "link" for the OBVIOUS. Honestly ask yourself, if possible, being the head coach at a Div1 football program whether you would prefer very little control or absolute and complete control over your schedule.

Asking for a link was intentionally silly. But the point still stands....your opinion, which you're entitled to, is just that-opinion. You seem to be passing it off as fact...and it's obviously not. Not sure where you're getting the defensive stuff. Maybe your exclamation point and all caps could be interpreted that way too, ya' know?

Anyways, I have little doubt that many coaches/AD's would want that. All? Not so sure about that. There are quite a few schools who could go Independent and have that yet choose not to. If they all want that...why wouldn't the ones who could pull off Independence do it?

I'll say this, I don't think ND's choice to remain Independent/not join the B1G has anything to do with the idea of having to play the likes of Nebraska, Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin.
May 24, 2012 7:43pm
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 7:45 PM
karen lotz;1181266 wrote:I'm not sure what your point is if you aren't saying they are afraid of a full B1G schedule? Everyone knows they are able to schedule who they want to for the most part. You just want to go on record to let us know you are aware of that?

That's not what he was implying or meant. Stop being so defensive, Lotz.
May 24, 2012 7:45pm
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 7:49 PM
karen lotz;1181143 wrote:They'd also be forced to play the likes of Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern every year. That has more to do with it than the teams you listed considering Michigan and Michigan State are played annually, Penn State and Nebraska have both been played within the last 10 or so years, and Wisconsin was discussed as a future opponent last year until scheduling conflicts stopped it.
I checked, ND has not played Penn State or Nebraska in the past 10 or so years. Maybe you're thinking of Pittsburg and Tulsa. Instead of being "forced" to play the likes of Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois(not easy a few years ago) and Northwestern(not easy of late). ND has CHOSEN to play Army, Air Force, Navy, South Florida, Wake Forest, Western Michigan, Connecticut, Nevada, San Diego State, Duke, BYU, Rutgers and the aforementioned Pittsburg and Tulsa over the past 10 years.
May 24, 2012 7:49pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 24, 2012 7:54 PM
Big Gain;1181282 wrote:I checked, ND has not played Penn State or Nebraska in the past 10 or so years. Maybe you're thinking of Pittsburg and Tulsa. Instead of being "forced" to play the likes of Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois(not easy a few years ago) and Northwestern(not easy of late). ND has CHOSEN to play Army, Air Force, Navy, South Florida, Wake Forest, Western Michigan, Connecticut, Nevada, San Diego State, Duke, BYU, Rutgers and the aforementioned Pittsburg and Tulsa over the past 10 years.
Oh, I must have been dreaming when I was sitting in Notre Dame Stadium watching them beat Penn State in 2006. They played in Happy Valley the following year. Nebraska was 2000 and 2001 I think, maybe 99/00. So you didn't check. Like I said before, they tried to schedule a home and home with Wisconsin for 2014 and 2015 but couldn't because both teams had previous games scheduled earlier in the season. Barry Alvarez said just a week or so ago that he hopes it will get scheduled soon. Should we list all of the teams OSU has played over the last 10 years so you can see what an ignoramus you are?
May 24, 2012 7:54pm
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Big Gain

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May 24, 2012 7:55 PM
karen lotz;1181266 wrote:I'm not sure what your point is if you aren't saying they are afraid of a full B1G schedule? Everyone knows they are able to schedule who they want to for the most part. You just want to go on record to let us know you are aware of that?
Not implying anything. No where has "afraid" been written. Only the obvious fact is being succinctly pointed out. ND prefers to have complete and absolute control over their football schedule as opposed to having very little control over their football schedule, which is the case for any school in any conference.
May 24, 2012 7:55pm
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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May 24, 2012 7:57 PM
Big Gain;1181288 wrote:Not implying anything. No where has "afraid" been written. Only the obvious fact is being succinctly pointed out. ND prefers to have complete and absolute control over their football schedule as opposed to having very little control over their football schedule, which is the case for any school in any conference.

Thanks for pointing that out. No one on the planet was aware of this except for you. Any other pearls of wisdom you can share?
May 24, 2012 7:57pm
killer_ewok's avatar

killer_ewok

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May 24, 2012 8:00 PM
Big Gain;1181282 wrote:I checked, ND has not played Penn State or Nebraska in the past 10 or so years. Maybe you're thinking of Pittsburg and Tulsa. Instead of being "forced" to play the likes of Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois(not easy a few years ago) and Northwestern(not easy of late). ND has CHOSEN to play Army, Air Force, Navy, South Florida, Wake Forest, Western Michigan, Connecticut, Nevada, San Diego State, Duke, BYU, Rutgers and the aforementioned Pittsburg and Tulsa over the past 10 years.

As Lotz said, they most certainly played Penn State a few years ago and Nebraska just over 10 years ago. Both home and home's.

Now you're not only trying to pass off your opinion as fact, but also fiction as fact.
May 24, 2012 8:00pm