Heretic;1686501 wrote:I agree with that to a point (I think it'd be better to draw in the casual fan, but I think it also dumbs down the sport in general and makes it look like semi-legit pro wrestling to a degree). I think Dana's bi-polar when it comes to that stuff, though. I remember when Brock Lesnar was in the early stages of his career and "cut an promo" or something after a fight and Dana was all on the "this is real, not sports entertainment!!!!" stuff. And now he's signing former pro wrestlers with no real MMA training

MMA has always had a little freak show in it, look at pride lol

Raw Dawgin' it;1686509 wrote:I think he nailed it talking about CM Punk. All of us here have the same credentials as him. I don't even think he has an amateur fight record.

Nope, I was reading somewhere that it'll be tough to get him sanctioned in a lot of places due to his lack of amateur fights because, SURPRISE, when it comes to stuff like this, officials don't want some schlub getting murderized because they completely suck and are against a world-class "beat the shit out of people" guy.

If the MMA fighters want more money there will have to be a lot less of them. It just isn't popular enough to support 600 guys making a good enough living to retire off of. They need to think of it like a hobby, something they can do when they are young. Unless you are in the top 5% you are not going to not make much money, and need to get a job when you are done fighting.

It could very easily turn into boxing where 5-10 guys make huge money, and a smaller pool below them are doing OK. Boxing does not have the middle class like MMA does. It could not support a roster the size of the UFC, while providing health benefits, etc.

robj55;1686479 wrote:Well before that he smashed Gomi, Cerrone and Jim Miller. The contract he signed recently was before the Ben Henderson fight, so coming off those three great wins. So the UFC offered him 30 K to show and 30K to win coming off two top ten wins and getting ready to fight for a world title, that is a problem. Some of the blame must go to Mike Kogan though, Nate's manager, dude is an idiot and didn't do is job. The point is that the UFC has lowballed a lot of fighters, it's not just Nate.

So they low balled Nate but paid Nick very well? Do you think Dana White loves Nick and hates Nate? They have the same attitude, pull the same BS antics, etc and Nick has even been popped for drugs a few times where Nate has not.

But yeah, the UFC screwed Nate...

Raw Dawgin' it;1686509 wrote:I think he nailed it talking about CM Punk. All of us here have the same credentials as him. I don't even think he has an amateur fight record.

I look at CM Punk the same way I did that one and done old boxer that Randy Couture beat in about 45 seconds year's ago (don't even remember the guys name).

He will get his butt kicked, and move on.

CM Punk could probably have success on a regional MMA card just based on his athletism and background but I agree with Diaz he shouldn't be anywhere near the UFC right now. Dana like to make certain guys earn their place in the UFC thru TUF. I think that would be fitting for Punk. It would give him a nice MMA boot camp. He wouldn't win but he could get some great training and draw for the show. They should use him the same way they used Kimbo Slice or make him earn it like Roy Nelson.

sportchampps;1686595 wrote:CM Punk could probably have success on a regional MMA card just based on his athletism and background but I agree with Diaz he shouldn't be anywhere near the UFC right now. Dana like to make certain guys earn their place in the UFC thru TUF. I think that would be fitting for Punk. It would give him a nice MMA boot camp. He wouldn't win but he could get some great training and draw for the show. They should use him the same way they used Kimbo Slice or make him earn it like Roy Nelson.

That would do hug ratings as well just based on intrigue.

jmog;1686528 wrote:I look at CM Punk the same way I did that one and done old boxer that Randy Couture beat in about 45 seconds year's ago (don't even remember the guys name).

He will get his butt kicked, and move on.

Atleast James Toney had a background in a combat sport, Punk has nothing other than training bjj as a hobby.

jmog;1686527 wrote:So they low balled Nate but paid Nick very well? Do you think Dana White loves Nick and hates Nate? They have the same attitude, pull the same BS antics, etc and Nick has even been popped for drugs a few times where Nate has not.

But yeah, the UFC screwed Nate...

I believe there should be some type of tier system for the minimum a guy can make based on years/fights with the promotion. A guy who has 15-20 fights in the organization should be making 100-150K to show imo. Bad enough they are going to kill their pay with this reebok deal by taking in cage sponsors away. Some guys make more on sponsor pay than they do fight purse and they are going to take that away?

I guess I just don't think it's a big deal (Cm Punk). I understand Diaz's point, but as long as Punk doesn't get a title shot in his first fight, I'm ok with it.

bigdaddy2003;1686632 wrote:I guess I just don't think it's a big deal (Cm Punk). I understand Diaz's point, but as long as Punk doesn't get a title shot in his first fight, I'm ok with it.

You're cool with him making millions of dollars when veterans of this sport who have dedicated their life to it fight for tens of thousands?

robj55;1686634 wrote:You're cool with him making millions of dollars when veterans of this sport who have dedicated their life to it fight for tens of thousands.

No. I didn't know his contract was for that much.

bigdaddy2003;1686636 wrote:No. I didn't know his contract was for that much.

Well no one knows the specifics but you can guarantee it's for a shit ton of money.

robj55;1686634 wrote:You're cool with him making millions of dollars when veterans of this sport who have dedicated their life to it fight for tens of thousands?

If he brings in the money to the business...why not?! Same went for Brock Lesnar. If only UFC signed Kimbo Slice and Lesnar at the same time...biggest ever signings for UFC. That could've been the biggest PPV ever.

Just because someone fights for 20 fights doesn't mean they get the money. They can be just jobbers.

OSH;1686641 wrote:If he brings in the money to the business...why not?! Same went for Brock Lesnar. If only UFC signed Kimbo Slice and Lesnar at the same time...biggest ever signings for UFC. That could've been the biggest PPV ever.

Just because someone fights for 20 fights doesn't mean they get the money. They can be just jobbers.

Slice was a joke - he went through TUF and got beat up. Brock had a DIV-1 wrestling background and is beyond athletically gifted. He also fought outside the UFC before being signed. Punk has zero background in fighting.

Also - cool to hear a champ speak up about the Reebok deal.

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/12/xbox-sponsored-ufc-champ-demetrious-johnson-discusses-ufc-reebok-deal

Zoltan;1686523 wrote:If the MMA fighters want more money there will have to be a lot less of them. It just isn't popular enough to support 600 guys making a good enough living to retire off of. They need to think of it like a hobby, something they can do when they are young. Unless you are in the top 5% you are not going to not make much money, and need to get a job when you are done fighting.

It could very easily turn into boxing where 5-10 guys make huge money, and a smaller pool below them are doing OK. Boxing does not have the middle class like MMA does. It could not support a roster the size of the UFC, while providing health benefits, etc.

There you go brining logic and reason into a UFC bash fest.

sportchampps;1686595 wrote:CM Punk could probably have success on a regional MMA card just based on his athletism and background but I agree with Diaz he shouldn't be anywhere near the UFC right now. Dana like to make certain guys earn their place in the UFC thru TUF. I think that would be fitting for Punk. It would give him a nice MMA boot camp. He wouldn't win but he could get some great training and draw for the show. They should use him the same way they used Kimbo Slice or make him earn it like Roy Nelson.

I like that idea.

robj55;1686626 wrote:I believe there should be some type of tier system for the minimum a guy can make based on years/fights with the promotion. A guy who has 15-20 fights in the organization should be making 100-150K to show imo. Bad enough they are going to kill their pay with this reebok deal by taking in cage sponsors away. Some guys make more on sponsor pay than they do fight purse and they are going to take that away?

So 15-20 fights gets a great pay day regardless of results? That isn't the case in any other sport but you think it should be true in MMA?

Raw Dawgin' it;1686655 wrote:Also - cool to hear a champ speak up about the Reebok deal.

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/12/xbox-sponsored-ufc-champ-demetrious-johnson-discusses-ufc-reebok-deal

I have the exact same feelings or concerns as he does. If the fighters make as much or more than they do now then great. If they don't then there is a problem.

jmog;1686658 wrote:So 15-20 fights gets a great pay day regardless of results? That isn't the case in any other sport but you think it should be true in MMA?

Other sports do have minimum salaries for veterans, but that wouldn't work in UFC (or any MMA circuit, to be honest). You have, to use Rob's example, a $100K to-show price because you moved up to (for example) 14 to 15 fights. Your record in those 15 is 9-6 and you've settled into a "gatekeeper/prelim header" sort of guy for PPVs and main card material on free TV.

What do you think is going to happen to you, considering the HUGE glut of fighters in UFC? Do you think you'll be getting $100K offers regularly or do you think your ass is getting cut because there are a lot of cheaper guys who can fill that same role? This leads to the problem of name recognition for all but the most devout fans, because you can bet that when any fighter starts getting to a certain number of fights, they will be cut unless they have the combination of star power and success to make it viable to keep them around for that increased price. A lot of veterans will suddenly be getting the "Children of the Corn" treatment (reach a certain number of fights and you're out) and the sport will be this system of young guys coming in and hoping they do enough in 15 fights to impress the bosses to keep them around for more.

jmog;1686658 wrote:So 15-20 fights gets a great pay day regardless of results? That isn't the case in any other sport but you think it should be true in MMA?

If you're good enough to hold a job within the organization for that long and win meaningful fights then you should be compensated for it imo. It doesn't have to be exactly those figures but seniority should mean something when it comes to this, just like it should with the reebok sponsorship deal. You mean to tell me that Felice Herrig is gonna make the same as Nate Diaz when it comes to that payout? That's insane.

robj55;1686716 wrote:If you're good enough to hold a job within the organization for that long and win meaningful fights then you should be compensated for it imo. It doesn't have to be exactly those figures but seniority should mean something when it comes to this, just like it should with the reebok sponsorship deal. You mean to tell me that Felice Herrig is gonna make the same as Nate Diaz when it comes to that payout? That's insane.

Results and putting people in the seats/PPV buys is what matters, not seniority. You must be a union guy in your day job where seniority means more than actually being good at your job and producing results.

Nate Diaz nearly got to that upper echelon but did not and has been on the downward spiral since. He is getting what the market says he should. If he could have got a better deal than 30k/30k show/win then he would have went to Bellator or whatever. You know it, I know it.

jmog;1686719 wrote:Results and putting people in the seats/PPV buys is what matters, not seniority. You must be a union guy in your day job where seniority means more than actually being good at your job and producing results.

Nate Diaz nearly got to that upper echelon but did not and has been on the downward spiral since. He is getting what the market says he should. If he could have got a better deal than 30k/30k show/win then he would have went to Bellator or whatever. You know it, I know it.

Nate headlines or co main events almost every show that he is involved in and in many cases is the top draw, does that not count for anything? Why would he have gone to Bellator when he was getting ready to fight for the UFC title? That would make zero sense.

Also, I'm not saying that seniority with the company should mean everything, I'm saying that it should factor in somehow. When Nate signed the contract he was top 5 in the world, you're telling me that someone who is top 5 in the world at what they do should be making 30/30? No way.