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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Apr 20, 2012 8:00am
I think they need to go offense, but I don't think the defense is as good as some people think it is. The Browns went against some terrible offenses last year, so some of the stats are misleading in regards to the defense. There are still several holes in the defense, just not nearly as many as the offense has.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 8:08am
Bingo! I don't think they are a top notch defense either. This season, with a few additions, will be a better barometer. They face better QB's than Gabbert, Kerry Collins, Charlie Whitehurst, etc.Al Bundy;1148553 wrote:I think they need to go offense, but I don't think the defense is as good as some people think it is. The Browns went against some terrible offenses last year, so some of the stats are misleading in regards to the defense. There are still several holes in the defense, just not nearly as many as the offense has.
I hope as much as anyone that the D is legit but I'm skeptical. Would just like to see some MAJOR improvement in the run D and then I think we'd have a better idea if the pass D is as good as some advertise.
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Apr 20, 2012 8:21am
I think the defense is passable.....not elite. If the offense could stay on the field...that would help. I just want some better linebackers.
bases_loaded
Posts: 6,912
Apr 20, 2012 9:10am
Wright is getting a third round grade.
Still want him over Blackmon?
Still want him over Blackmon?
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Apr 20, 2012 9:15am
bases_loaded;1148575 wrote:Wright is getting a third round grade.
Still want him over Blackmon?
I think Floyd is the only one that can be compared with Blackmon.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 9:19am
Which is why I hope they can trade back and stay in the top 10, snag at least another 2nd, and still get Floyd. I'm really hoping more & more that they trade down.wes_mantooth;1148578 wrote:I think Floyd is the only one that can be compared with Blackmon.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 20, 2012 9:20am
I would disagree. In terms of hype and possibly production I could see it. I still think Floyd is the better prospect.wes_mantooth;1148578 wrote:I think Floyd is the only one that can be compared with Blackmon.
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Apr 20, 2012 9:27am
Commander of Awesome;1148580 wrote:I would disagree. In terms of hype and possibly production I could see it. I still think Floyd is the better prospect.
Could be....but I think there is a significant drop off from those two.....to the next group of receivers
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
Apr 20, 2012 9:34am
Please list all the WR's from ND who came out in the draft in the last 15 years that amounted to anything in the NFL?Commander of Awesome;1148580 wrote:I would disagree. In terms of hype and possibly production I could see it. I still think Floyd is the better prospect.
/ihslep134'd
Crimson streak
Posts: 9,002
Apr 20, 2012 9:46am
Skyhook79;1148586 wrote:Please list all the WR's from ND who came out in the draft in the last 15 years that amounted to anything in the NFL?
/ihslep134'd
I lol'd but Tim brown did pretty well for himself
bases_loaded
Posts: 6,912
Apr 20, 2012 9:53am
Crimson streak;1148596 wrote:I lol'd but Tim brown did pretty well for himself
Wasn't drafted in the last 15 years..or even 20
#sleeperwins
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Apr 20, 2012 11:02am
I wish there was a von miller in this years draft.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 11:04am
No shit. Always seems like the Browns are just a pick or two shy of that impact guy.DeyDurkie5;1148672 wrote:I wish there was a von miller in this years draft.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Apr 20, 2012 11:10am
And it always seems they are one seat shy of a full stadium every year.BR1986FB;1148674 wrote:No shit. Always seems like the Browns are just a pick or two shy of that impact guy.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 11:12am
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 11:12am
Maybe Lerner needs to install another seat to make it full?sleeper;1148680 wrote:And it always seems they are one seat shy of a full stadium every year.
killer_ewok
Posts: 11,379
Apr 20, 2012 11:20am
bases_loaded;1148603 wrote:Wasn't drafted in the last 15 years..or even 20
This. That said, Derrick Mayes wasn't too bad. Not a star by any means but he had some solid seasons. Even at that it's definitely been awhile since there was an impact WR from ND in the league. I think Floyd could buck that trend and could see him being a big asset to the Browns or any other team for that matter. Keep seeing him to Arizona in mock drafts. EDIT: WR David Givens had a decent run with Brady and the Patriots.
Saw Doug Martin mentioned earlier. I think he'd be a great pick for the Browns if they don't go with Richardson at 4.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Apr 20, 2012 11:21am
Maybe so called "fans" could take the free ticket and go to a game.BR1986FB;1148684 wrote:Maybe Lerner needs to install another seat to make it full?
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 11:26am
You said they were missing seats, not fans...sleeper;1148698 wrote:Maybe so called "fans" could take the free ticket and go to a game.
shook_17
Posts: 3,023
Apr 20, 2012 11:43am
i don't know what you are reading but they are saying wright will either go to the bears with the 19th pick or to the bengals with the 17th or 21st pick. if they wanted him theyd have to trade up imo.Dr. KnOiTaLL;1148317 wrote:
The more I read, the more I think Wright could be had in the second round and maybe even the third. His value is definitely slipping, and to take him at 22 would be an absolute reach at this point.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 20, 2012 11:47am
Wright will not be available in the 3rd. That is just ridiculous.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 20, 2012 12:01pm
[h=3]Cosell Talks: Diamonds in the Rough, Part II[/h] [h=4]by Greg Cosell[/h] Last week I wrote about 5 players in the 2012 NFL draft that intrigued me, players who were not being discussed by analysts at the time as first-round picks. It seems that one of them, Shea McClellin, has suddenly become a first-round player. That’s not a surprise to me. His tape did the talking for him; the eye in the sky doesn’t lie.
There are a number of other players who caught my attention watching film. These players might not be drafted high, or maybe they will be when teams complete their evaluations. Always remember in today’s NFL of multiple personnel on both sides of the ball, situational sub-packages and specifically defined roles, many players play meaningful snaps and many contribute.
Here are more of my diamonds in the rough:
Derek Wolfe (AP)
Derek Wolfe, DL, Cincinnati: Wolfe played many different positions on the Bearcats defensive line. He was an active, disruptive, high-energy player whose game was predicated on movement at the snap. He slanted, he stunted, he rarely attacked blockers head on. Wolfe was deceptively quick with excellent short area agility. He used his hands very well to create leverage and play with power. He was not an explosive pass rusher; he could not bend the edge. He was more measured and methodical in his movement yet he did show good closing burst. He will provide position and scheme versatility as he transitions to the NFL. I can’t help thinking, based solely on film study, that he’s a Bill Belichick type of player.
Winston Guy (AP)
Winston Guy, S, Kentucky: Guy was a hybrid in Kentucky’s defense. He was listed as a safety, and there were snaps on third and long when he aligned at deep safety, but he predominantly played on the line of scrimmage. He was really a linebacker based on alignment. I loved his playing personality. He was active, aggressive with his movement, he played fast and urgent. He had terrific pursuit production, often running from one side of the field to the other to make tackles. There were snaps versus Georgia when he played man-to-man against TE Orson Charles, and he was not overmatched. He has limitations based on the games I evaluated. He was a straight line athlete who was not very smooth or decisive changing direction. The question with Guy is position. I believe he can play in dime sub-packages and be a combination safety/linebacker.
Charles Mitchell (AP)
Charles Mitchell, S, Mississippi State: A 3 year starter at safety,Mitchell was asked to do a lot of things in Mississippi State’s defense. He played deep safety, he aligned in the box, he covered man-to-man, and he blitzed. What immediately stood out was his aggression and physicality attacking downhill in the run game. He showed the ability to close quickly and deliver solid hits. I don’t care what his 40 time was. What I do know watching film is that Mitchell was field fast; he covered a lot of ground. As with many college safeties, the concern is lateral quickness, change of direction and range as a single high safety. Overall, Mitchell was very good player, an athletic, tough strong safety with very solid attributes to find a place in the NFL, likely as a starter depending on team and scheme.
Chris Givens (AP)
Chris Givens, WR, Wake Forest: I’m struggling to understand why I don’t hear more about the Wake Forest wide receiver. He’s a little bigger, and just as explosive vertically as Kendall Wright. Just as importantly, Givens played to his speed on almost every snap. He showed dynamic acceleration on vertical routes, especially with free access off the line. He was both deceptively and explosively fast. He went from zero to 60 in a heartbeat. There were a couple of negatives, of course. He wasn’t as effective as an intermediate route runner; his explosive movement did not always translate to quickness in and out of breaks. The larger issue was his hands; at times he fought the ball and struggled to make routine catches. Based on my evaluation, I don’t feel Givens should make it out of the second round.
Tyrone Crawford (AP)
Tyrone Crawford, DE, Boise State: The overlooked player on Boise State’s defense, I believe Crawford will get better and better once he transitions to Sunday football. The Canadian native played both DE positions, and at times moved inside at “3 technique” DT. In the NFL, he will have tremendous position and scheme versatility. He’s big enough to play “5 technique” DE in a 3-4 front, and I would not be surprised if teams that play that front are excited about him. He played with excellent leverage in the run game; he stalemated and defeated blocks. He used his hands very well as a pass rusher; they were active and at times violent. Overall, Crawford was a very good combination of strength and athleticism, with strong hands and quick feet. He has a chance to develop into a very good pass rusher in the NFL.
So those are five more players who captured my attention in my extensive film study. I am not concerned with where they get drafted. I am far more interested in how they transition to the NFL.
There are a number of other players who caught my attention watching film. These players might not be drafted high, or maybe they will be when teams complete their evaluations. Always remember in today’s NFL of multiple personnel on both sides of the ball, situational sub-packages and specifically defined roles, many players play meaningful snaps and many contribute.
Here are more of my diamonds in the rough:
Derek Wolfe (AP)
Derek Wolfe, DL, Cincinnati: Wolfe played many different positions on the Bearcats defensive line. He was an active, disruptive, high-energy player whose game was predicated on movement at the snap. He slanted, he stunted, he rarely attacked blockers head on. Wolfe was deceptively quick with excellent short area agility. He used his hands very well to create leverage and play with power. He was not an explosive pass rusher; he could not bend the edge. He was more measured and methodical in his movement yet he did show good closing burst. He will provide position and scheme versatility as he transitions to the NFL. I can’t help thinking, based solely on film study, that he’s a Bill Belichick type of player.
Winston Guy (AP)
Winston Guy, S, Kentucky: Guy was a hybrid in Kentucky’s defense. He was listed as a safety, and there were snaps on third and long when he aligned at deep safety, but he predominantly played on the line of scrimmage. He was really a linebacker based on alignment. I loved his playing personality. He was active, aggressive with his movement, he played fast and urgent. He had terrific pursuit production, often running from one side of the field to the other to make tackles. There were snaps versus Georgia when he played man-to-man against TE Orson Charles, and he was not overmatched. He has limitations based on the games I evaluated. He was a straight line athlete who was not very smooth or decisive changing direction. The question with Guy is position. I believe he can play in dime sub-packages and be a combination safety/linebacker.
Charles Mitchell (AP)
Charles Mitchell, S, Mississippi State: A 3 year starter at safety,Mitchell was asked to do a lot of things in Mississippi State’s defense. He played deep safety, he aligned in the box, he covered man-to-man, and he blitzed. What immediately stood out was his aggression and physicality attacking downhill in the run game. He showed the ability to close quickly and deliver solid hits. I don’t care what his 40 time was. What I do know watching film is that Mitchell was field fast; he covered a lot of ground. As with many college safeties, the concern is lateral quickness, change of direction and range as a single high safety. Overall, Mitchell was very good player, an athletic, tough strong safety with very solid attributes to find a place in the NFL, likely as a starter depending on team and scheme.
Chris Givens (AP)
Chris Givens, WR, Wake Forest: I’m struggling to understand why I don’t hear more about the Wake Forest wide receiver. He’s a little bigger, and just as explosive vertically as Kendall Wright. Just as importantly, Givens played to his speed on almost every snap. He showed dynamic acceleration on vertical routes, especially with free access off the line. He was both deceptively and explosively fast. He went from zero to 60 in a heartbeat. There were a couple of negatives, of course. He wasn’t as effective as an intermediate route runner; his explosive movement did not always translate to quickness in and out of breaks. The larger issue was his hands; at times he fought the ball and struggled to make routine catches. Based on my evaluation, I don’t feel Givens should make it out of the second round.
Tyrone Crawford (AP)
Tyrone Crawford, DE, Boise State: The overlooked player on Boise State’s defense, I believe Crawford will get better and better once he transitions to Sunday football. The Canadian native played both DE positions, and at times moved inside at “3 technique” DT. In the NFL, he will have tremendous position and scheme versatility. He’s big enough to play “5 technique” DE in a 3-4 front, and I would not be surprised if teams that play that front are excited about him. He played with excellent leverage in the run game; he stalemated and defeated blocks. He used his hands very well as a pass rusher; they were active and at times violent. Overall, Crawford was a very good combination of strength and athleticism, with strong hands and quick feet. He has a chance to develop into a very good pass rusher in the NFL.
So those are five more players who captured my attention in my extensive film study. I am not concerned with where they get drafted. I am far more interested in how they transition to the NFL.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 20, 2012 12:02pm
link to Cosell talking draft
http://media25.podbean.com/pb/8b8794c6f808827b782cd2207ce67891/4f918838/blogs25/329295/uploads/GregCosell41912.mp3
http://media25.podbean.com/pb/8b8794c6f808827b782cd2207ce67891/4f918838/blogs25/329295/uploads/GregCosell41912.mp3
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Apr 20, 2012 12:17pm
Any takers for a 5th or 6th assuming a restructure were to happen?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Apr 20, 2012 12:22pm
No, I dont think he's a scheme fit. He really thrives in a zone defense, not a great tackler, older, and costs a lot of money. We play a ton of man coverage here and Samuel doesn't play as well in that fit which is why he's being traded from Philly.BR1986FB;1148777 wrote:Any takers for a 5th or 6th assuming a restructure were to happen?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed