Writerbuckeye;971818 wrote:It's a public discussion board, so me. I get to decide. When I read that he ignored something sexual happening to a child and did the very least thing he could do and, as a result, more children ended up getting molested -- I get to decide that Paterno is morally bankrupt.

And given that Paterno is no longer a PSU employee, I can be pretty sure the Board of Trustees agrees with me, as likely do the majority of people who have read the details of this case.

Whats your stance on Abortion? Gay marriage? Homosexuality? Capital punishment? War? Enhanced Interrogation methods?

Skyhook79;972311 wrote:Whats your stance on Abortion? Gay marriage? Homosexuality? Capital punishment? War? Enhanced Interrogation methods?

all right, now THIS is a poll :thumbup:

Abortion- as a rule, no (only in cases of rape)
Gay Marriage- no problem with it
Homosexuallty- see above
Capital Punushment- hell yes
War- what is it good for?
E. I. methods- big fan of waterboarding, so yea, I'm ok with it

Judge who released Sandusky without bail (even though the AG requested $500k and electronic monitoring because Sandusky lives by a school playground) has previously volunteered/worked in some capacity for the Second Mile Foundation.

Obviously speculation at this point, but could the corruption be even deeper than we thought? Geez.

Judge should at minimum recuse him/her self from the case due to conflict of interest.

I don't think there is any way this trial/hearings can proceed anywhere near State College? I'm no lawyer but there is no way that you can find 12 jurors there that havent been watching TV 24/7.

chicago510;972407 wrote:Judge who released Sandusky without bail (even though the AG requested $500k and electronic monitoring because Sandusky lives by a school playground) has previously volunteered/worked in some capacity for the Second Mile Foundation.

Obviously speculation at this point, but could the corruption be even deeper than we thought? Geez.

Judge should at minimum recuse him/her self from the case due to conflict of interest.

I don't think there is any way this trial/hearings can proceed anywhere near State College? I'm no lawyer but there is no way that you can find 12 jurors there that havent been watching TV 24/7.

Actually she released him on 100,000 dollars bail,which the dollar amt between 500 and 100K is really moot because Sandusky has the means to meet either one. However he should have been placed with a monitoring device.

moot

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member Join DateNov 2009LocationColumbus, close to The OSU campusPosts4,538vCash15,831Rep Po

[INDENT=5][INDENT]Every fan base has its idiots -- and since OSU has one of the largest fan bases in the country, they probably have a few more idiots working the e-mails, phones, etc.

It's a shame.

I'd say 100 percent of the Buckeye fans I know and interact with, including almost all of them on a Buckeye message board I frequent, have no problem with what the attorney did (other than thinking he might face disciplinary action by the folks who hand out law licenses), and accept the fact that JT made a really, really bad error in judgment. My hope is the NCAA accepts OSU's penalties and that's the end of it.





I find it very interesting that a man who actually was found to be involved in a cover up and lie about it writer buckeye passes it off as "very,very poor judgement and doesn't deem Jim Tressel "morally corrupt"

Now cue his response about how the situations are on a different level...like a cover up and lying is different based on the situation.[/INDENT]

[/INDENT]

Now, the head of Second Mile has resigned.

The head of a charity for young people founded by former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky has resigned amid accusations that Sandusky sexually abused young boys involved with the organization.

Jack Raykovitz, who served as CEO of the Second Mile for 28 years, resigned Sunday, the group's board of directors said in a statement Monday. Both Raykovitz "and the board believe this is in the best interests of the organization."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/14/us/pennsylvania-coach-abuse/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

tl;dr this whole freaking thread. But more speculation that there is a race angle to the pimping reports and the victims of Sandusky.

http://www.washingtoninformer.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7495:does-race-explain-penn-states-blind-eye-to-sex-scandal&catid=50:local&Itemid=113

chicago510;972407 wrote:I don't think there is any way this trial/hearings can proceed anywhere near State College? I'm no lawyer but there is no way that you can find 12 jurors there that havent been watching TV 24/7.

Yeah, jury selection is going to be a bitch. Going to be very difficult for him to get a fair trial.

Skyhook79;972581 wrote:Writerbuckeye

Senior Member Join DateNov 2009LocationColumbus, close to The OSU campusPosts4,538vCash15,831Rep Po[INDENT=5][INDENT]Every fan base has its idiots -- and since OSU has one of the largest fan bases in the country, they probably have a few more idiots working the e-mails, phones, etc.

It's a shame.

I'd say 100 percent of the Buckeye fans I know and interact with, including almost all of them on a Buckeye message board I frequent, have no problem with what the attorney did (other than thinking he might face disciplinary action by the folks who hand out law licenses), and accept the fact that JT made a really, really bad error in judgment. My hope is the NCAA accepts OSU's penalties and that's the end of it.





I find it very interesting that a man who actually was found to be involved in a cover up and lie about it writer buckeye passes it off as "very,very poor judgement and doesn't deem Jim Tressel "morally corrupt"

Now cue his response about how the situations are on a different level...like a cover up and lying is different based on the situation.[/INDENT]

[/INDENT]

I've been waiting for you to try and dig up some years old quote from me regarding OSU and make a ridiculous comparison. Congrats on not letting me down.

As for trying to equate from JT did, which hurt only himself, to what Paterno did -- which resulted in the rape of children -- congrats again. It's a failure of epic proportions.

But you knew that.

Writerbuckeye;972704 wrote:I've been waiting for you to try and dig up some years old quote from me regarding OSU and make a ridiculous comparison. Congrats on not letting me down.

As for trying to equate from JT did, which hurt only himself, to what Paterno did -- which resulted in the rape of children -- congrats again. It's a failure of epic proportions.

But you knew that.

Only hurt himself? Years ago? Keep spinning ,your defense of Tressel was laughable in comparison to your attack on JoePa when all the facts haven't even begun to come out yet. What was it you said when the Tressel story first broke to those who were criticizing him? Lets wait for the facts to come out before we make a judgement? Cover up is cover up and lying is lying no matter how big the circumstances. If Tressel would cover up and lie about Tattoo's for autographs and selling memorabilia what we he do in other larger matters????

Here is another from writer buckeye:

"I've been monitoring stuff all day and my PR "spidey" sense says JT is going to face some punishment tonight. No, I don't think he'll be fired or resign, but he might get suspended w/o pay for a few games or something similar.

OSU may also have to vacate a few games as a result of this if JT didn't do his diligence in following up a report that some players were selling their stuff for tattoos or whatever (which I still say is one of the lamest rules in NCAA history).

My best guess is that JT thought he had followed up on something but didn't follow exact protocol, and now he and possibly the team are going to pay a price.

I have nothing to base this on other than the fact that Gee has already stated they are looking into a perceived violation, so that tells me this is about doing something (or not doing something) that falls into a gray area so far as compliance matters go.

In any event, you don't have a press conference, bring an AD back from duties elsewhere, and cancel the coach's book signing just to say everything is wonderful and nothing questionable happened. Something is being looked into, whether it is a violation or not -- remains to be seen because I'm sure OSU has been on the phone with the NCAA all day figuring that out, along with appropriate punishment.

Those who rag on JT and OSU and live for these kinds of things (there are more than a few on these forums) forget that Ohio State has ALWAYS been among the best of the big schools at self policing, self reporting, and are very quick to take action when anything is found that is a violation. They aren't like USC, Auburn or lots of other schools that obfuscate and delay, hoping it goes away.

OSU will take its medicine and move forward -- hopefully continuing to win with class and dignity as they've typically done during JT's tenure."



Glad to see you predictions were spot on and defending a cover up and liar.

Here is one from vball10set:


"anyway, I'm disappointed that JT didn't make the right decision in April, but I still love the guy, and I still want him as our coach...GO BUCKS!!!"

Writerbuckeye;972704 wrote:I've been waiting for you to try and dig up some years old quote from me regarding OSU and make a ridiculous comparison.

You said (and I paraphrase) "let's wait until the whole story comes out" about JT
Now you're saying (and I paraphrase) "let's completely ignore a plausible explanation and crucify Joe Pa right now despite not hearing his side"


As far as I'm concerned, that's the only comparison that needs to be made, and it's a completely relevant one.



Also, this fact seems to be completely ignored...once Joe Pa was told, and he alerted his superiors, the authorities WERE called. The campus police didn't even question the GA who witnessed the crimes, and IMO that's on THEM for dropping the ball, not on Joe Pa. (and by dropping the ball, I mean most likely paid off by the PSU higher ups).

You people are nuts. Yeah we may be able to hold off on indicting JoePa until further facts are revealed but make no effin mistake about it, there is no freaking way that old man should be anywhere near campus. Jim Tressel, on the other hand, could still be coaching.

Non football issues vs football issues

ytownfootball;972886 wrote: Yeah we may be able to hold off on indicting JoePa until further facts are revealed

That's the ENTIRE POINT. It's about the same people who called for the holding off of Tressel's crucification until all the facts come out (like Writer) now going completely against that in calling for Joe Pa's crucification NOW.


Dammit I said I'd be done arguing this issue, but the hypocrisy shown by some (Writer) is overwhelming.

Who cares?

He shouldn't be wearing a headset. That's the only relevant issue.

"Not a single post here disputes Tressel will stick up for his players. He cares for his players. He wishes the best and looks out for his players. He also had a lapse in judgement here. Who here hasnt ever had a lapse in judgement? Anyone ever made a mistake?"

OSU should have to forfeit the 2010 season and I dont know the difference between OSU, Miami and USC anymore.



and writer buckeye's response:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That's all the commentary that post deserves.

And you think you know everything about the Penn State scandal?


"No matter what the haters say everyone knows that Coach Tressel is human and we all make mistakes. Regardless what his were I know that TRUE friends,fans,and family will be by his as well as the teams side. That man is the reason so many young men have had the chance to leave bad neighborhoods and broken homes and make something of themselves. Respect is what I have for coach and we all should. Go Bucks!!! "


"I'm disappointed because, IMO, he was trying to protect Pryor the way he protected Clarett- "fool me once, shame on you--fool me twice, shame on me"...yes, I'm disappointed, but there's still nobody I'd rather have leading the Buckeyes than Jim Tressel--period."

"not a chance in hell--JT's not going anywhere"


"Hey...Tressel screwed up, NO question, no excuses. He and OSU are and will pay the price. The haters can hate, and OSU fans will have to deal with it. They would hate anyway. Right or wrong, he was looking out for his players and made a poor judgement. He didn't pay someone, he didn't cheat recruiting wise, no agents are involved. Yes, its not good, nor do I condone what he did. Its a black eye for Tressel and the university, no question. And its easy to read the emails and come to some kind of judgement. But those with half a brain realize, there was probably much more to the situation than what is seen by the eye right now. I'd like to believe we have all been in situations where you have questioned your own judgement. Its not always an easy thing to do depending on the circumstances. I believe in my heart of hearts, he is a good man. I have met him, and seen him in action doing great things for the common good. I'll gaurantee he has done 100x more good, than bad. Unfortunately in this negative media blitz world we live in, those things never come to light and are rarely mentioned.
Now we just wait for the NCAA and move on. OSU will recover. And I believe in time, Tressel will as well."





These are not all writer buckeye but it is amazing how many defended JT even after he was caught lying and covering up and telling people to wait until all the facts are presented. JoePa nah lets hang him now to hell with due process.

lhslep134;972889 wrote:That's the ENTIRE POINT. It's about the same people who called for the holding off of Tressel's crucification until all the facts come out (like Writer) now going completely against that in calling for Joe Pa's crucification NOW.


Dammit I said I'd be done arguing this issue, but the hypocrisy shown by some (Writer) is overwhelming.

I am only halfway thru the tressel is in trouble thread and there is a lot more I couldn't have posted that I didn't, its quite amazing stuff.

lhslep134;972881 wrote:You said (and I paraphrase) "let's wait until the whole story comes out" about JT
Now you're saying (and I paraphrase) "let's completely ignore a plausible explanation and crucify Joe Pa right now despite not hearing his side"


As far as I'm concerned, that's the only comparison that needs to be made, and it's a completely relevant one.



Also, this fact seems to be completely ignored...once Joe Pa was told, and he alerted his superiors, the authorities WERE called. The campus police didn't even question the GA who witnessed the crimes, and IMO that's on THEM for dropping the ball, not on Joe Pa. (and by dropping the ball, I mean most likely paid off by the PSU higher ups).

I am a Penn Stater and I am saying the correct move was made by the BoT in firing Paterno, they did it in a crappy, scumbag way though. I don't believe the amount of criticism he is taking and the taking his name off of the Big 10 trophy is correct at this point, but that is a PR move the conference has to do.

The opposite argument can be made ytownfootball. The crime was not committed by JoePa, it was by Sandusky. The non-football nature is why so many people are upset about the firing. If you go back to the day he was told, no NCAA rules were violated, therefore he should be able to coach as he broke no NCAA rules and committed no crimes.

I stated before that I worked for Tressel for 1 year and love the guy. I agree he got a raw deal based on a questionable at best NCAA rule. The fact is though, if you go back to the day he found out, NCAA rules were broken. The players would have been ineligible and games would have been vacated. He would not have been fired, IMHO.

The difference here is night and day and the two should not be compared. One broke NCAA rules (lame rules) and lost his job due to resignation, not retirement. The other made huge moral mistakes based on another person's crimes (disgusting crimes) and lost his job due to being fired (even though his ego still try to retire).

Everyone needs to agree that these guys were both great coaches, who taught great lessons over extended periods of time. Decisions that each made, not that were forced on them, but rather they each made decisons to act or not act. In hindsight, Paterno has said he wishes he had done more. He should have done more, but he broke no man made laws. I don't believe Tressel would chhange his decision if tasked with the same situation, except maybe instead of responding to the e-mail, he might delete it. That is not saying he is a bad guy or that his character is weak, it simply means I think he doesn't believe he was wrong. Paterno knows he should have done more, Tressel believes he did nothing wrong and many people agree (even some non-OSU fans).

The opposite argument can be made ytownfootball. The crime was not committed by JoePa, it was by Sandusky. The non-football nature is why so many people are upset about the firing. If you go back to the day he was told, no NCAA rules were violated, therefore he should be able to coach as he broke no NCAA rules and committed no crimes.

I don't think for a minute JoePa actually committed a crime. I only speak from the universities stand point in that they simply couldn't risk having him around any longer from a pr perspective. Needed to be gone just to clean the slate. Hell just look how much grief they're giving McQueery for still being on staff, and as far as we know he was the only one who did anything at all.

Falcons53;972908 wrote:I am a Penn Stater and I am saying the correct move was made by the BoT in firing Paterno, they did it in a crappy, scumbag way though. I don't believe the amount of criticism he is taking and the taking his name off of the Big 10 trophy is correct at this point, but that is a PR move the conference has to do.

The opposite argument can be made ytownfootball. The crime was not committed by JoePa, it was by Sandusky. The non-football nature is why so many people are upset about the firing. If you go back to the day he was told, no NCAA rules were violated, therefore he should be able to coach as he broke no NCAA rules and committed no crimes.

I stated before that I worked for Tressel for 1 year and love the guy. I agree he got a raw deal based on a questionable at best NCAA rule. The fact is though, if you go back to the day he found out, NCAA rules were broken. The players would have been ineligible and games would have been vacated. He would not have been fired, IMHO.

The difference here is night and day and the two should not be compared. One broke NCAA rules (lame rules) and lost his job due to resignation, not retirement. The other made huge moral mistakes based on another person's crimes (disgusting crimes) and lost his job due to being fired (even though his ego still try to retire).

Everyone needs to agree that these guys were both great coaches, who taught great lessons over extended periods of time. Decisions that each made, not that were forced on them, but rather they each made decisons to act or not act. In hindsight, Paterno has said he wishes he had done more. He should have done more, but he broke no man made laws. I don't believe Tressel would chhange his decision if tasked with the same situation, except maybe instead of responding to the e-mail, he might delete it. That is not saying he is a bad guy or that his character is weak, it simply means I think he doesn't believe he was wrong. Paterno knows he should have done more, Tressel believes he did nothing wrong and many people agree (even some non-OSU fans).

You left out Tressel covered up stuff and lied. I am 100% sure he wishes he did it different and not buying Tressel believes he did nothing wrong.

ytownfootball;972915 wrote:I don't think for a minute JoePa actually committed a crime. I only speak from the universities stand point in that they simply couldn't risk having him around any longer from a pr perspective. Needed to be gone just to clean the slate. Hell just look how much grief they're giving McQueery for still being on staff, and as far as we know he was the only one who did anything at all.

McQuaery was the only one who did anything at all? A 6'3" 230 lb 28 yr old man watches a 60 yr old man rape a 10 yr old and runs out of building to call his Dad is doing something? I bet that 10 yr old thinks different.

Skyhook79;972924 wrote:McQuaery was the only one who did anything at all? A 6'3" 230 lb 28 yr old man watches a 60 yr old man rape a 10 yr old and runs out of building to call his Dad is doing something? I bet that 10 yr old thinks different.

Name one other human being other than the victims mother who even considered it.
We can agree universally he didn't do enough.

ytownfootball;972915 wrote:I don't think for a minute JoePa actually committed a crime. I only speak from the universities stand point in that they simply couldn't risk having him around any longer from a pr perspective. Needed to be gone just to clean the slate. Hell just look how much grief they're giving McQueery for still being on staff, and as far as we know he was the only one who did anything at all.

I follow you. I said it in an earlier post as well. Based on the facts we know and the intensity of the situation, there is no way the BoT could keep Paterno. He has no case for wrongful termination, so it was a no-brainer to fire him. I believe they gave him the chance to resign and he refused, essentially forcing their hand.

In McQueary, you have a case for wrongful termination. He took the issue to his superior and reported it, therefore satisfying his legal obligation (I refuse to debate the other things he should have done). The university, similar to the case with AD Curley, must allow the process to play out before decisions are made on their future. They are employees and have rights and legal protection. The University as a whole is going to lose millions over this. If they fire those two now, they will lose millions more from their easy to win lawsuits. After he is found guilty of perjury, Curley will be fired. McQueary will not be found guilty of any crime, no matter how hard people on the internet try to re-write the US Legal Codes overnight, lol. He will never coach another game at Penn State and maybe at no other school IMHO. Now we will see if he resigns or makes the BoT fire him under some moral/ethical clause in their contracts.