karen lotz;963986 wrote:[video=youtube;y39GhaqCaqo][/video]

Bizarre, and kinda sad.

Matt Mil in said it best, this is the USA where we all allinocent until proven guilty. Joe and the rest deserve to be punished if guilty but not until all of the facts are released, the investigation concluded and after a fair trial period. If every person were tried based on what the media releases it would be a scary place to live. Post your opinions if you like but at least be ratnal about it. Some of you make it sound like the guy was raping boys and Joe Pa and the rest of the Penn State staff were watching it from behind a two way mirror or something. For those of you that claim you would have acted differently I wonder if you would have it is easy to say what you would have done after the fact. Be patient and get the job done correctly after we have all of the facts.

chippblue;964059 wrote:Matt Mil in said it best, this is the USA where we all allinocent until proven guilty. Joe and the rest deserve to be punished if guilty but not until all of the facts are released, the investigation concluded and after a fair trial period. If every person were tried based on what the media releases it would be a scary place to live. Post your opinions if you like but at least be ratnal about it. Some of you make it sound like the guy was raping boys and Joe Pa and the rest of the Penn State staff were watching it from behind a two way mirror or something. For those of you that claim you would have acted differently I wonder if you would have it is easy to say what you would have done after the fact. Be patient and get the job done correctly after we have all of the facts.

The facts thus far are that a known pedophile had access to Penn State facilities for 13 years after a yet to be determined number of people knew about Sandusky's transgressions. I think a damning comment or 80 is warranted.

Some of us really need to take a step back, remove ourselves from the situation for at least a few moments, and then stop calling for the rape of Joe Paterno. Think about what some of you are saying. It's completely ill-thought-out and ridiculous. Those talking anything about sentencing Joe Paterno to homosexual purgatory are foolish and sound incredibly creepy in their own right, and should simply stop.

Matt Millen, although overcome with great anger and shame with regard to the actions transpiring at his university, shed a voice of reason today. As sad and reprehensible a situation as this is, Joe Paterno deserves to have his side of the story fully heard and given the same thoughtful consideration as the stories of everyone else involved in this unfortunate case. Despite what some here are alleging, Paterno has repeatedly denied that he was ever aware of anything sexual happening between Sandusky and anyone, and reiterated that message during an emotional meeting with his players on Monday. He says he didn't know. And, until otherwise proven, I will go out on a "thin branch" and believe the word of the man who, until this week, was regarded by virtually everyone as the most respected and upstanding sports coach in the history of American athletics. I think Millen said it best when he stated that we just can't know what Paterno was actually told, or how marginalized the story might have become by the time it reached the Nittony Lion head coach. It is simply one man's word versus another.

Think about it for a moment. Consider the idea that Paterno is lying through his teeth and that he actually knew. Why would a man who has coached and taught for over six decades at a school he so dearly loves and whose legacy he basically built, an institution in which he has served for well over half a century carving a legacy of achievement, strong moral principal and a demand for doing things the right way, all-of-a-sudden throw all of that away in order to allow his linebacker coach to use the Penn State shower room as his lair to have intercourse with prepubescent children? Give me a damn break.

reclegend22;964072 wrote:... Why would a man who has coached and taught for over six decades at a school he so dearly loves and whose legacy he basically built, an institution in which he has served for well over half a century carving a legacy of achievement, strong moral principal and a demand for doing things the right way, all-of-a-sudden throw all of that away in order to allow his linebacker coach to use the Penn State shower room as his lair to have intercourse with prepubescent children? Give me a damn break.

I don't think he thought it through like that. I think he just moved on from it mentally and "hoped".

He was wrong.

First of all, who let rec outta the CB forum?

Secondly, Joe Pa notified the AD of something...it's not like he wasn't unaware of wrongdoing on Sandusky's part, to what extent is the unknown, but a little follow up couldn't have hurt.

Con_Alma;964086 wrote:I don't think he thought it through like that. I think he just moved on from it mentally and "hoped".

He was wrong.

Sounds familiar

ytownfootball wrote:First of all, who let rec outta the CB forum?

Lol. I took an ambien and got lost within the board sometime yesterday in the middle of the night, and I haven't been able to find my way back.

But, yes, unless I am loyally defending the greatness of Bone Thugs-N-Harmony or in 2008 on the Huddle politics board proclaiming the end of the American president, I am normally confined to the place where I feel most at home. Haha.

gorocks99;964033 wrote:Bizarre, and kinda sad.

Yep.

ytownfootball;964092 wrote:to what extent is the unknown.

This is the most important part. If what Joe Pa was actually told wasn't as damning as some of you are assuming it is, then maybe JoePa did everything he thought appropriate, and that the higher ups would resolve the situation.

At the end of the day, this was a personal situation and not a football situation. While you think Joe Pa is the be-all-end-all of the program, and you're right, this goes beyond the program. The higher ups are much more responsible than Joe Pa, i.e. the AD and Prez, IF Joe Pa did what any normal person would do given the information he was given.

lhslep134;964108 wrote:... The higher ups are much more responsible than Joe Pa, i.e. the AD and Prez, IF Joe Pa did what any normal person would do given the information he was given.

They were friends outside of football. Any normal person would have asked his friend what the hell was going on.

Con_Alma;964109 wrote:They were friends outside of football. Any normal person would have asked his friend what the hell was going on.

But we don't know what information Joe Pa was told in the first place. If it was damning, then Joe Pa is more at fault than if it were very ambiguous IMO.

Sorry, he gets no benefit of doubt from me because I have a brain and common sense.

There were at least two incidents that we know about where Paterno was informed Sandusky was involved with young boys in the shower. Two incidents.

Do we believe Paterno is a moron?

Of course we don't.

How can any intelligent man not realize after two incidents of this nature that something really bad was going on and Sandusky was doing it? Obviously, Paterno felt Sandusky did something wrong, because he (Sandusky) was basically forced to retire.

That doesn't happen if you know nothing. Paterno doesn't approve (or mandate) that retirement if he knows nothing. It doesn't pass the smell test.

I believe that Paterno knew if any of this came to light it would destroy everything he'd worked to build, and he whitewashed it and moved on. Perhaps he has convinced himself that he's just an innocent victim of circumstances here, but once again common sense says otherwise.

There is too much actual evidence (eyewitness accounts and the actions that followed) that says Paterno knew something was wrong. Every move he made ended up protecting both the university and his own name. That is also not a coincidence.

If you want to convince yourself that the image of the man was real and discount facts, common sense and reality, that's your choice.

I choose to believe what the facts have clearly shown: Paterno knew Sandusky was doing wrong; he took steps to punish him and remove him directly from the program; and every action taken by others in the line of authority worked to benefit both Paterno and the university's football program.

He's morally responsible for the molestation of children that happened beyond that first report in 1998 when Paterno took steps to remove Sandusky directly from the football staff.

lhslep134;964112 wrote:But we don't know what information Joe Pa was told in the first place. If it was damning, then Joe Pa is more at fault than if it were very ambiguous IMO.

It doesn't matter the extent of the info that was told. If anything was even alluded to about a friend of mine I would be asking him about it.

Con_Alma;964116 wrote:It doesn't matter the extent of the info that was told. If anything was even alluded to about a friend of mine I would be asking him about it.

And what happens when your friend denies it? Are you going to keep pressing the issue? No, you're going to drop it. That's a bad line of reasoning you're using if JoePa received information that wasn't damning.

Joe "hey Jerry what is going on?"
Jerry "well Joe I am raping kids in your shower why do you ask?"
Oh yea I guess it would have been that simple (sarcasm)

lhslep134;964125 wrote:And what happens when your friend denies it? Are you going to keep pressing the issue? No, you're going to drop it. That's a bad line of reasoning you're using if JoePa received information that wasn't damning.

Joe let him go. It can be inferred that he knew it was bad enough. Details not withstanding.

lhslep134;963934 wrote:Nothing as of now. He didn't do anything legally wrong that we know of. The court of public opinion is not the court of law. You don't punish people for improper morals, you punish them for breaking the law.

Not criminally, but you damn sure can't hold a job thats duties include the care of young men when you show such an egregious disregard for the welfare of children in order to spare your friends.

lhslep134;964125 wrote:And what happens when your friend denies it? Are you going to keep pressing the issue? No, you're going to drop it. That's a bad line of reasoning you're using if JoePa received information that wasn't damning.

Even if he denied it, the second time it's made available we've got issues. It may be a bad line of reasoning but it's my reasoning and we're playing what if here. If I'm Joepa and 2 times something is presented to me it either needs squashed or uncovered.

reclegend22;964072 wrote: Think about it for a moment. Consider the idea that Paterno is lying through his teeth and that he actually knew. Why would a man who has coached and taught for over six decades at a school he so dearly loves and whose legacy he basically built, an institution in which he has served for well over half a century carving a legacy of achievement, strong moral principal and a demand for doing things the right way, all-of-a-sudden throw all of that away in order to allow his linebacker coach to use the Penn State shower room as his lair to have intercourse with prepubescent children? Give me a damn break.

He either knew and only told his AD, or he purjured himself in front of the grand jury.

Either way, this shit was happening IN HIS LOCKER ROOM under his watch. What he knew can be debated all day, and only he knows. But he knew enough to warrant further investigation by the proper authorities.

ytownfootball;964140 wrote:Details not withstanding.

So all of a sudden details don't matter? That makes a ton of sense....

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

Finally got around to reading the grand jury file.... Wow. They all need fired.

Con_Alma;964146 wrote:Even if he denied it, the second time it's made available we've got issues. It may be a bad line of reasoning but it's my reasoning and we're playing what if here. If I'm Joepa and 2 times something is presented to me it either needs squashed or uncovered.

Look, I'm only saying we need to know what JoePa was told originally. I don't think you're necessarily wrong, in fact I think he probably received damning information and is forever tarnished for allowing it to happen.

However, I can't square crucifying him just yet until we know. That's pretty much my point.

lhslep134;964158 wrote:Look, I'm only saying we need to know what JoePa was told originally. I don't think you're necessarily wrong, in fact I think he probably received damning information and is forever tarnished for allowing it to happen.

However, I can't square crucifying him just yet until we know. That's pretty much my point.

You'll find nothing I have said which crucified him in any capacity. The worst I have said is:

Con_Alma;964086 wrote:I don't think he thought it through like that. I think he just moved on from it mentally and "hoped".

He was wrong.

I stand by that "opinion" at this point.

Con_Alma;964164 wrote:You'll find nothing I have said which crucified him in any capacity. The worst I have said is:

Not you, other people.