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Flashing in public - Free speech or ticket offense?

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Flashing in public - Free speech or ticket offense?
S

Steel Valley Football

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4,548 posts
Oct 18, 2011 9:12 PM
I Wear Pants;937951 wrote:Ah yes, I forgot you were the leading authority on parking laws. My bad.
It's ok I forgive you! ;)
Oct 18, 2011 9:12pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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29,506 posts
Oct 18, 2011 10:00 PM
Steel Valley Football;937893 wrote:No, you said that law could never be enforced. I said I bet you it can. I also told you to try to fight it. You not getting a ticket out of luck is irrelevant.
Yes I did. But I wasnt talking about the time limit. I was saying how does someone know I am paying for someone elses meter, unless they just sit there and watch? I meant, if I park and then 1:55 later go and pay more money, they cant get me for meter running out but they can for the vehicle being there forever. But if I see a car sitting there and run out and put money in, how can they enforce that I was doing it? Who is to say the person didnt give me money, or its a friend, etc? They can still get the car being there for too long...but I dont see how you can enforce someone putting money in a meter.
Oct 18, 2011 10:00pm
Jughead's avatar

Jughead

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1,261 posts
Oct 19, 2011 12:17 AM
Enough of this nonsense about meter maids. The question was about the legality of flashing.


Quint;936556 wrote:For those hoping for a thread not on flashing vehicle headlights. . .

http://ladythrills.blogspot.com/2009/03/florida-panthers-woman-bares-breasts.html

NSFW
REPS! :thumbup:
Oct 19, 2011 12:17am
S

Steel Valley Football

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4,548 posts
Oct 19, 2011 5:39 PM
Laley23;938155 wrote:Yes I did. But I wasnt talking about the time limit. I was saying how does someone know I am paying for someone elses meter, unless they just sit there and watch? I meant, if I park and then 1:55 later go and pay more money, they cant get me for meter running out but they can for the vehicle being there forever. But if I see a car sitting there and run out and put money in, how can they enforce that I was doing it? Who is to say the person didnt give me money, or its a friend, etc? They can still get the car being there for too long...but I dont see how you can enforce someone putting money in a meter.

Not to be disrespectful, but you have a very limited cognitive schemata if you can't envision any scenario beyond your own personal experiences where this could be enforced.

How about this:

1:00pm - Mr Ju parks on 5th Ave
1:45pm - meter expires
1:46pm - PA begins issuing ticket
1:47pm - Mr Stin sees PA writing ticket and puts quarter in meter
1:49pm - Mr Ju comes out and sees a ticket on his car, 13 minutes left on the meter, and the PA walking away.

As you know, once the PA starts issuing the ticket it must be completed. What should happen in this case?


Or this:

A "good samaritan" decides she can help people by paying their meters and saving them from a ticket. Then she starts leaving a note where people can send her a "donation". Turns out about half the people do and it becomes a pretty good racket. What should happen to her little business venture?


So, as I've illustrated, there are scenarios beyond your own where it's easy to identify people breaking this law. Again, why could they not enforce this?
Oct 19, 2011 5:39pm
S

Steel Valley Football

Senior Member

4,548 posts
Oct 19, 2011 5:40 PM
Jughead;938296 wrote:Enough of this nonsense about meter maids. The question was about the legality of flashing.
ok
Oct 19, 2011 5:40pm
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Oct 19, 2011 5:41 PM
The "once I start issueing a ticket I have to finish it" thing is bullshit.
Oct 19, 2011 5:41pm
S

Steel Valley Football

Senior Member

4,548 posts
Oct 19, 2011 5:43 PM
I Wear Pants;938975 wrote:The "once I start issueing a ticket I have to finish it" thing is bull****.
That's a great defense. You should advise your lawyer to use that for you at all times.
Oct 19, 2011 5:43pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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7,809 posts
Oct 19, 2011 6:17 PM
I Wear Pants;938975 wrote:The "once I start issueing a ticket I have to finish it" thing is bullshit.
its a rule i use. gotta have a cut off sometime.
Oct 19, 2011 6:17pm
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Oct 19, 2011 6:22 PM
Glory Days;939038 wrote:its a rule i use. gotta have a cut off sometime.
Personal rule. That's fine.

But if you pretend it's the law or something that's bullshit.

And SVF, I don't understand why you'd say that. Are you disagreeing with me and saying that it is in fact a law that you have to finish writing a ticket once you've started it? Because that's simply untrue. Of course that wouldn't be a good defense in court as it isn't even a defense. But what I said was true.
Oct 19, 2011 6:22pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 19, 2011 7:32 PM
I Wear Pants;939046 wrote:Personal rule. That's fine.

Are you disagreeing with me and saying that it is in fact a law that you have to finish writing a ticket once you've started it?
AFAIK, it's just department policy of the various jurisdictions, and one that makes a ton of sense (risk of payoffs for one reason).
Oct 19, 2011 7:32pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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29,506 posts
Oct 19, 2011 7:56 PM
Steel Valley Football;938971 wrote: 1:00pm - Mr Ju parks on 5th Ave
1:45pm - meter expires
1:46pm - PA begins issuing ticket
1:47pm - Mr Stin sees PA writing ticket and puts quarter in meter
1:49pm - Mr Ju comes out and sees a ticket on his car, 13 minutes left on the meter, and the PA walking away.

As you know, once the PA starts issuing the ticket it must be completed. What should happen in this case?


Or this:

A "good samaritan" decides she can help people by paying their meters and saving them from a ticket. Then she starts leaving a note where people can send her a "donation". Turns out about half the people do and it becomes a pretty good racket. What should happen to her little business venture?


So, as I've illustrated, there are scenarios beyond your own where it's easy to identify people breaking this law. Again, why could they not enforce this?
Um, in your first scenario the meter had expired. Law was broken. Im saying, if you just walked by and put money in the meters, who is going to stop you? If a PA gonna run after you walking down the street? Like I said, they can make it illegal, but it is very unenforceable. If anyone is dumb enough to try and make a profit than fine. Im not saying ALL scenarios are unenforceable, but most are. Any good lawyer is going to get a person off in court. Hell, I would be shocked if anyone was ever arrested for it. Just walk away, cause 99% of policemen are not going to arrest anyone for putting money in the meter.
Oct 19, 2011 7:56pm
W

WebFire

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14,779 posts
Oct 19, 2011 10:13 PM
If you speed and no cop is around to pull you over, it's still against the law.
Oct 19, 2011 10:13pm
I

I Wear Pants

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Oct 19, 2011 10:20 PM
WebFire;939300 wrote:If you speed and no cop is around to pull you over, it's still against the law.
Speeding represents a measurable danger to society. Show me the menace in people putting money in parking meters.
Oct 19, 2011 10:20pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Oct 19, 2011 10:24 PM
WebFire;939300 wrote:If you speed and no cop is around to pull you over, it's still against the law.
Yes, and if no cop is around it cant be enforced. Which is my point.
Oct 19, 2011 10:24pm
Apple's avatar

Apple

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2,620 posts
Oct 20, 2011 12:35 AM
ok, so if you let the parking meter expire or you go over the speed limit and a cop catches you, then you get a ticket.

just to try to bring this thread full circle...

Lets say you are outside at a sidewalk cafe and have your car is parked at a meter within eyesight of your table. Your buddy looks over at your car and says he sees a PA checking the parking meters. You look at your watch and see you need to get out there and put another quarter in so you don't get a ticket.

If cops can give you a ticket for flashing your lights to get oncoming traffic to slow down, should the PA be able to give a ticket to your buddy if he/she hears him tell you that the meters are being checked?
Oct 20, 2011 12:35am
W

WebFire

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Oct 20, 2011 7:11 AM
I Wear Pants;939309 wrote:Speeding represents a measurable danger to society. Show me the menace in people putting money in parking meters.
That's not the argument. It's about enforceability.
Oct 20, 2011 7:11am
W

WebFire

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Oct 20, 2011 7:11 AM
Laley23;939312 wrote:Yes, and if no cop is around it cant be enforced. Which is my point.
And what is your point?
Oct 20, 2011 7:11am
W

WebFire

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Oct 20, 2011 7:13 AM
Apple;939426 wrote:ok, so if you let the parking meter expire or you go over the speed limit and a cop catches you, then you get a ticket.

just to try to bring this thread full circle...

Lets say you are outside at a sidewalk cafe and have your car is parked at a meter within eyesight of your table. Your buddy looks over at your car and says he sees a PA checking the parking meters. You look at your watch and see you need to get out there and put another quarter in so you don't get a ticket.

If cops can give you a ticket for flashing your lights to get oncoming traffic to slow down, should the PA be able to give a ticket to your buddy if he/she hears him tell you that the meters are being checked?
No on both accounts.

I could see it being illegal to flash your lights in general, as a safety thing. But the act of warning someone of an upcoming speed trap should not be illegal.
Oct 20, 2011 7:13am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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7,809 posts
Oct 20, 2011 9:30 AM
I Wear Pants;939309 wrote:Speeding represents a measurable danger to society. Show me the menace in people putting money in parking meters.
menace, no. nuisance, yes. the person putting money in someone else's parking meter is basically allowing that person to get away with illegal activity.
Oct 20, 2011 9:30am
C

Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Oct 20, 2011 9:47 AM
Glory Days;939552 wrote:menace, no. nuisance, yes. the person putting money in someone else's parking meter is basically allowing that person to get away with illegal activity.
It

certainly could be considered a menace. There's more than on reason their are time limits on meters. One such reason is that it provides for the parking availability of many as opposed to one vehicle. By limiting the time a vehicle can stay, others might better be able to find parking for access to commerce in that particular area.
Oct 20, 2011 9:47am
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Oct 20, 2011 10:39 AM
WebFire;939483 wrote:And what is your point?
That I dont really think a law ticketing people putting money can reasonably be enforced. Too many variables and too many different scenarios.
Oct 20, 2011 10:39am
W

WebFire

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Oct 20, 2011 11:45 AM
Laley23;939584 wrote:That I dont really think a law ticketing people putting money can reasonably be enforced. Too many variables and too many different scenarios.
I would say many laws are that way. Speeding being a good one. Of all the cars on the road each day, what % do you think speed? And of those, what % do you think get tickets? Should we take speeding off the books?
Oct 20, 2011 11:45am
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Oct 20, 2011 12:12 PM
Glory Days;939552 wrote:menace, no. nuisance, yes. the person putting money in someone else's parking meter is basically allowing that person to get away with illegal activity.
I've seen people park and put one hour worth of money in the meter. And I've seen these people get ticketed because they were longer than an hour. If I want to help this person out and extend their time (to the 2 hr limit) so they don't get ticketed why is that illegal? What harm have I done society? None at all.
Oct 20, 2011 12:12pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

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Oct 20, 2011 12:25 PM
I Wear Pants;939655 wrote:I've seen people park and put one hour worth of money in the meter. And I've seen these people get ticketed because they were longer than an hour. If I want to help this person out and extend their time (to the 2 hr limit) so they don't get ticketed why is that illegal? What harm have I done society? None at all.
You've taken away an opportunity to issue a fine, you heartless bastard!!!!
Oct 20, 2011 12:25pm
S

Steel Valley Football

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4,548 posts
Oct 20, 2011 12:47 PM
Laley23;939171 wrote:Um, in your first scenario the meter had expired. Law was broken. Im saying, if you just walked by and put money in the meters, who is going to stop you? If a PA gonna run after you walking down the street? Like I said, they can make it illegal, but it is very unenforceable. If anyone is dumb enough to try and make a profit than fine. Im not saying ALL scenarios are unenforceable, but most are. Any good lawyer is going to get a person off in court. Hell, I would be shocked if anyone was ever arrested for it. Just walk away, cause 99% of policemen are not going to arrest anyone for putting money in the meter.

I'm not sure you have a point at all. Not to mention you have changed your stance. You went from "it can't be enforced" to "well it can't always be enforced".

So it's difficult to enforce in many instances? Guess what - so is littering - but that doesn't change littering laws. In fact, I will bet you i can get away with littering more times than you can get away with putting money in other peoples' meters. Regardless, it's still illegal to litter and in certain cities its illegal to feed a meter that's not yours.

The same thing about enforcement can be said about many laws. By your logic, we just shouldn't have those laws then? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Oct 20, 2011 12:47pm