GoJPM!;892528 wrote:The article said those jets were loaded with dummy ammo from two weeks of training exercises in Nevada. Not sure if article implied just those jets from Nevada or all jets period. That would blow my mind if there wasn't a single fighter jet, stateside, armed and ready to go. Innocent times brought about some complacency, on our part, then.

Yeah, but I thought the article also said that no planes in the US were hot, and that as a result of 9/11 there's now two planes at every base with pilots ready. Why in the world would you be sending jets from NV to begin with, given several bases are much closer?

I think the article also said they were flying 400mph, which I also thought odd because, like you said, they fly much faster. More than likely just a sloppily written article (a few other instances as well).

majorspark;892775 wrote:This is a big reason why I don't buy into conspiracy theories. Add to that all the evidence that proves otherwise in this case. Cell conversations and cockpit recorders say otherwise. If flight 93 were shot down it would have broken up in the air and the debris field would have been scattered. Likely with the amount of fuel on board for a transcontinental flight it would have exploded in the air. Some of you need to take your tin foil hats off.

I thought I heard that there were pieces of debris found 2-3 miles away from the crash site?

I watched 4 hours of documentary on National Geographic last night, the first 2 hours on BEFORE the 9/11 events (the terrorists' planning and preparation) and the last 2 hours on the minute-by-minute events of the day). It went into detail about which F-16's (and other fighter planes) were dispatched from where at what time and where they were going. There was confusion after the first two planes struck when the air force bases didn't know which plane(s) had crashed. They knew of 3-4 plans hijacked, but couldn't identify which ones because the hijacking pilots turned off certain transmitters and flew below a radar-able altitude. At one point two fighter pilots were heading towards Manhattan to chase down 2 planes which had already crashed into the World Trade Centers. Also, there is personal testimony of 2-3 men and their wives, and their cell phone calls back and forth, about charging the cockpit, fighting with the pilot, and eventually having the plane crash in Pennsylvania (I'm assuming that's the plane you're talking about).

As for the plane crashing into the Pentagon, up 'til yesterday I've always heard people being skeptical that there was actually a plane, and that it was a bomb. But they showed surveillance video that shows the plane.

They played actual recordings made from the hijacking pilots... it was funny 'cuz almost all the pilots thought they were broadcasting to the rest of the passengers in the plain "Everyone remain seated, we have a bomb on the plane, we have our demands, and are going back to the airport." (same message by each captain to their respective passengers), but the messages were being broadcast to air traffic controllers and recorded. The flight that crashed into Pennsylvania had a recording of one hijacker in the cockpit ask the other (when they realized they were going to be rushed in the cockpit) if they should "finish it now, or wait". The co-hijacker in the cockpit said to wait, and "if they all come, finish it off".

thePITman;893247 wrote: As for the plane crashing into the Pentagon, up 'til yesterday I've always heard people being skeptical that there was actually a plane, and that it was a bomb. But they showed surveillance video that shows the plane.

There were also multiple eyewitnesses both in the air and on the ground, including a guy that works for me. I'm not sure how the conspiracy loonies get around this fact, unless they just ignore it.

queencitybuckeye;893249 wrote:There were also multiple eyewitnesses both in the air and on the ground, including a guy that works for me. I'm not sure how the conspiracy loonies get around this fact, unless they just ignore it.

Key word.

thePITman;893247 wrote: As for the plane crashing into the Pentagon, up 'til yesterday I've always heard people being skeptical that there was actually a plane, and that it was a bomb. But they showed surveillance video that shows the plane.

Is there a link to the surveillance video? I would like to see it. All I've ever seen is a blur that looks more like missile and not a 747 passenger jet or whatever it was?

queencitybuckeye;893249 wrote:There were also multiple eyewitnesses both in the air and on the ground, including a guy that works for me. I'm not sure how the conspiracy loonies get around this fact, unless they just ignore it.

There were also a lot of witnesses that said it wasn't a plane wasn't there? I feel like on Sept. 11th, a lot of people were giving different stories. If there was conclusive video evidence, I would be more apt to accept exactly what the government is saying.

I believe the fighter jets were scrambled from Michigan; the plane had already turned to the SE from the east side of Cleveland (I know people who were outside and saw it turning at a low altitude -- it was very strange as they knew jets would not even be on such a flight pattern in that area); anyhow the concern was even getting the fighter jets to the plane before it reached DC as it was already well into PA by the time they were scrambled.

I believe the plane crashed without intervention by the fighter jets.

Now if you want to get into a real coverup, please refer to TWA 800 --- commercial jets just don't 'blow up'. I am in the camp that says it was taken down by terrorists, one way or another.

I think it woulda been damned near impossible for them to find that plane. They were scrambled to go to NYC and then were told it the second plane hit the towers. As one stated..they were below radar, and their thingy to track them was turned off and since they were not on course they were supposed to be it would have been damned near impossible to find them in a short period of time.

I have to go with the original thoughts....that the passengers/crew helped get that plane crashed. Of complete pilot error.

She's hot.... I'd do her

queencitybuckeye;893249 wrote:There were also multiple eyewitnesses both in the air and on the ground, including a guy that works for me. I'm not sure how the conspiracy loonies get around this fact, unless they just ignore it.

Ernie Weatherholtz' outfit was one of the contractors cleaning up the Pentagon. I'd take a bullet for his son (James) as he would for me, we were roommates for two years at UVA. It was a plane.

Crazy awesome story.

For those quick to dismiss conspiracy theorists, members of the United States government have plotted against Americans before.

lhslep134;893595 wrote:Crazy awesome story.

For those quick to dismiss conspiracy theorists, members of the United States government have plotted against Americans before.

Indeed, it isn't the conspiracy that is so dumb in this case, but the logic leading up to it.

baseballstud24;893300 wrote:There were also a lot of witnesses that said it wasn't a plane wasn't there? I feel like on Sept. 11th, a lot of people were giving different stories. If there was conclusive video evidence, I would be more apt to accept exactly what the government is saying.

dont forget the light poles and cars that were hit on the highway from the plane flying over.

I've never seen any cars hit by the planes..I guess I'll have to look it up.

what always kills me about these type of conspiracy theories is that with soooo many people involved how do they all keep quiet about it?

Hell......the smallest of things can happen and it gets leaked out.........so how in the hell do these nutjobs expect the 9/11 conspiracy to stay quiet from people who were involved with it? They want to call Pres Bush a bumbling idiot, but somehow he is this genius for orchestrating and keeping quiet the biggest terror attack in history.

thavoice;894258 wrote:what always kills me about these type of conspiracy theories is that with soooo many people involved how do they all keep quiet about it?

Hell......the smallest of things can happen and it gets leaked out.........so how in the hell do these nutjobs expect the 9/11 conspiracy to stay quiet from people who were involved with it? They want to call Pres Bush a bumbling idiot, but somehow he is this genius for orchestrating and keeping quiet the biggest terror attack in history.

Key word.

thavoice;894258 wrote:what always kills me about these type of conspiracy theories is that with soooo many people involved how do they all keep quiet about it?

Hell......the smallest of things can happen and it gets leaked out.........so how in the hell do these nutjobs expect the 9/11 conspiracy to stay quiet from people who were involved with it? They want to call Pres Bush a bumbling idiot, but somehow he is this genius for orchestrating and keeping quiet the biggest terror attack in history.

It would take literally thousands of people to cover up a conspiracy this big.

LJ;894282 wrote:It would take literally thousands of people to cover up a conspiracy this big.

and he woulda have had to orchestrate it in less than a year of being if office.

The only logical conspiracy theory that I even give credence to is that the Administration allowed the attack to happen in order to go to war.

LJ;894294 wrote:The only logical conspiracy theory that I even give credence to is that the Administration allowed the attack to happen in order to go to war.

Agreed...ala Pearl Harbor.

So a plane or two received "escorts" on Sunday when pilots reported some minor disturbances aboard. "Escort" is just a politically correct way of saying "if the pilot didn't do EXACTLY what we told him to it was game over". I might have actually pissed my pants if I was on one of these planes and looked out the window to see a couple of fighter jets.

gut;895040 wrote:So a plane or two received "escorts" on Sunday when pilots reported some minor disturbances aboard. "Escort" is just a politically correct way of saying "if the pilot didn't do EXACTLY what we told him to it was game over". I might have actually pissed my pants if I was on one of these planes and looked out the window to see a couple of fighter jets.

What was crazy was the people on board had NO IDEA anything was going on until they landed at a different airport than where they were headed.